Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[pparks1]

Lots more room in my TDI Passat still then a Ford Focus. Convenience of long range with large tank and mileage. But you are right, that huge advantage is next to gone.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[pkhoury]

Fact of the matter... In 2009, as far as economy is concerned, VW was really setting a standard with their diesel vehicles. Only the Hybrids could come close, and we all know there is the fun to drive factor to consider. However, in 2015-2016 The TDI is not such a diamond in the rough. You can pull 35-39 MPG out of a Ford Focus and pay less for gasoline. I would rather drive my TDI than a Focus, but the TDI is not special anymore when considering economy. Sure it is a diesel, But that just translates to paying more at the pump and costing more to fix when something fails.. The Economy advantage that the TDI used to have is long gone. IMO.

Lots more room in my TDI Passat still then a Ford Focus. Convenience of long range with large tank and mileage. But you are right, that huge advantage is next to gone.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

This is true, but let's be realistic here Mich - we're the same height. Can you really fit in a Focus comfortably? I know I can't - I had a rental 4 weeks ago and Enterprise wanted to put me in a Focus. My head was pressing against the ceiling, so I got a free upgrade to a minivan. There are lots of economy cars that get 35-39mpg, but again, it goes back to those of us who have commented on this thread - each of us clearly has differing opinions of our TDIs. You have your opinions, I have mine, and the next poster has theirs.

The other thing to remember pparks1 is that fuel might not always be this cheap. No offense to the oil & gas guys, but I hope it stays this way for a while. As for economy of any car, it also depends on whether the vehicle owner can do a lot of the maintenance themselves. Not a lot can, so yeah, in this case, a Japanese or Domestic auto would probably be cheaper in the long run but again, all comes down to personal preference.

 

[MichVW]

This is true, but let's be realistic here Mich - we're the same height. Can you really fit in a Focus comfortably? I know I can't - I had a rental 4 weeks ago and Enterprise wanted to put me in a Focus. My head was pressing against the ceiling, so I got a free upgrade to a minivan. There are lots of economy cars that get 35-39mpg, but again, it goes back to those of us who have commented on this thread - each of us clearly has differing opinions of our TDIs. You have your opinions, I have mine, and the next poster has theirs.

The other thing to remember pparks1 is that fuel might not always be this cheap. No offense to the oil & gas guys, but I hope it stays this way for a while. As for economy of any car, it also depends on whether the vehicle owner can do a lot of the maintenance themselves. Not a lot can, so yeah, in this case, a Japanese or Domestic auto would probably be cheaper in the long run but again, all comes down to personal preference.

I can fit in my Sportwagon/Golf just as comfortably as a Ford Focus or similar sized Japanese vehicle. Sure, the VW has some nice interior features, and despite what I have said in this thread, I do enjoy driving the diesel. However, my point is that the TDI just doesn't have the advantage that it used to when speaking of economy. Those that continue to spout off how great the economy is, really are living under a rock. You pay more at the pump for diesel and other auto makers are knocking on TDI's door as far as economy is concerned with their gas vehicles.

In my part of Michigan I have seen diesel as low as $1.78 per gallon over the last two weeks. Gas is still less though at approximately $1.56.

Diesels are also harder to work on and more costly to fix for the everyday backyard mechanic.

 

[jayp111]

I can fit in my Sportwagon/Golf just as comfortably as a Ford Focus or similar sized Japanese vehicle. Sure, the VW has some nice interior features, and despite what I have said in this thread, I do enjoy driving the diesel. However, my point is that the TDI just doesn't have the advantage that it used to when speaking of economy. Those that continue to spout off how great the economy is, really are living under a rock. You pay more at the pump for diesel and other auto makers are knocking on TDI's door as far as economy is concerned with their gas vehicles.

In my part of Michigan I have seen diesel as low as $1.78 per gallon over the last two weeks. Gas is still less though at approximately $1.56.

Diesels are also harder to work on and more costly to fix for the everyday backyard mechanic.

Instead of complaining incessently why not sell the car and buy a vehicle that is more of an appliance

You seem to spend all of your time complaining on this forum about your car and how unhappy you are......why dont you just sell it and move on?

 

[JCTDI]

Instead of complaining incessently (stet) why not sell the car and buy a vehicle that is more of an appliance

How is talking about the lost mpg advantage "complaining" in that last post? There's lots of threads on tdiclub where owners can talk about how happy they are with their car. This isn't one of them.

And my wife just told me yesterday she wants to sell our TDI. This is a car we were planning on keeping until around 2019. We both fell in love with it in 2009 when we thought we were getting a wagon as clean as the Prius, but with a standard-transmission and torque. We still love driving it but can't afford the time and cost needed for all of the repairs.

Now we want to sell but don't have the money to buy a new car, since we are in the middle of a one year renovation. Its also a bad time to sell, since the value has gone down with the TDI scandal. So I am trying to keep the car running while we wait for VW to announce a f**king plan to fix or buyback.

We are seemingly taking it to the dealer for some kind of problem every 4-6 months for the last few years. DPF light is on now for the last 3 days, after we had a new DPF installed 6 months ago, and I have to bring it in again Wednesday. I'm taking it in myself because I believe they are starting to BS my wife. Like yesterday they told her "Even if the DPF light is on, it doesn't necessarily mean its the DPF. And we'll have to charge you for diagnosing the problem." Are they serious?? Is this because the DPF is still under warranty for another 1,000 on our car?

So, much as we'd like to, we are not able to "just keep enjoying our TDI" because it won't let us. And its not the clean diesel we thought we bought.

 

[jayp111]

How is talking about the lost mpg advantage "complaining" in that last post? There's lots of threads on tdiclub where owners can talk about how happy they are with their car. This isn't one of them.

And my wife just told me yesterday she wants to sell our TDI. This is a car we were planning on keeping until around 2019. We both fell in love with it in 2009 when we thought we were getting a wagon as clean as the Prius, but with a standard-transmission and torque. We still love driving it but can't afford the time and cost needed for all of the repairs.

Now we want to sell but don't have the money to buy a new car, since we are in the middle of a one year renovation. Its also a bad time to sell, since the value has gone down with the TDI scandal. So I am trying to keep the car running while we wait for VW to announce a f**king plan to fix or buyback.

We are seemingly taking it to the dealer for some kind of problem every 4-6 months for the last few years. DPF light is on now for the last 3 days, after we had a new DPF installed 6 months ago, and I have to bring it in again Wednesday. I'm taking it in myself because I believe they are starting to BS my wife. Like yesterday they told her "Even if the DPF light is on, it doesn't necessarily mean its the DPF. And we'll have to charge you for diagnosing the problem." Are they serious?? Is this because the DPF is still under warranty for another 1,000 on our car?

So, much as we'd like to, we are not able to "just keep enjoying our TDI" because it won't let us. And its not the clean diesel we thought we bought.

Dieselgate hasnt changed anything

Its still the same car good/bad/neither isnt it?

All cars require repairs from time to time

 

[mjLyco]

Dear TDIClubers,

Some people wish to keep their TDI for whatever reason. This does not make them foolish, blind, or a VW zealot.

Some people wish to sell their TDI for whatever reason. This does not make them foolish, a whiner, or an EPA zealot.

Everyone's finances, needs, wants, views, and morals are different.

There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a diesel. There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a gasser. There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a hybrid. There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a EV. There are advantages and disadvantages to public transit. There are advantages and disadvantages to get everywhere by your own power.

This is why there are so many different vehicles.

Me? I'd love to dump my 2010 Golf TDI and get into a 2017 diesel Jaguar XE, but it's not out yet and would cost $50k the way i want it specced. My wife would murder me. lol

Edit: Going to add that everyone is frustrated by dieselgate because of uncertainty. We all wish there would be some official word already.

Day 135

 

[JCTDI]

Its still the same car good/bad/neither isnt it?

I don't agree with this. This is not the "same" car asset-wise. I can't sell it or trade it right now without taking a loss. We are, to an extent, being held hostage by VWs lack of a plan. For any smart buyer, our car has too many unknowns to take a chance on.

 

[MichVW]

Instead of complaining incessently why not sell the car and buy a vehicle that is more of an appliance

You seem to spend all of your time complaining on this forum about your car and how unhappy you are......why dont you just sell it and move on?

Wow.. apparently you don't pay attention. Didn't you and I go through this previously...

If I sold the car I would loose my butt... Explained this earlier.
I had planned on selling the Golf Pre-dieselgate due to several failures and my family growing (Thought I mentioned the car seat issues) but couldnt do it before the Scandal surfaced.

You seem to chime in every 24 hours or so, fight with several other posters, and then ignore everything for 24 hours, only to return and fight some more. Find something better to do.

 

[jayp111]

I don't agree with this. This is not the "same" car asset-wise. I can't sell it or trade it right now without taking a loss. We are, to an extent, being held hostage by VWs lack of a plan. For any smart buyer, our car has too many unknowns to take a chance on.

Of course you can sell it...there are loads of people purchasing these cars who are completely undeterred by the EPA nonsense

Carmax or one of the big retailers made some note that selling prices were something like 16% lower than before this all began

That may suck but no one is prohibiting you from parting ways with the car if you want to

Heck, when I bought my 2006 it was a sellers market because it had been announced that it was the last model year for a bit due to EPA emmissions compliance challenges

If you're upset about this then wait until the Chinese Yuan becomes a reserve currency on par with the USD.....then you're really in for a surprise

 

[MichVW]

I don't agree with this. This is not the "same" car asset-wise. I can't sell it or trade it right now without taking a loss. We are, to an extent, being held hostage by VWs lack of a plan. For any smart buyer, our car has too many unknowns to take a chance on.

EXACTLY..

I really love how all these guys with MKIV's chime in, bash everyone on here, and the disappear only to return for more bashing.. I have been saying this for days now... These cars took such a loss in value that it would be foolish for anyone to try and sell now. Then everyone spouts off about how vehicles are not investments blah blah blah... People are rightfully frustrated! Move on if you don't own a vehicle that is directly affected by this scandal.

 

[rob c]

All cars require some repairs from time to time... BUT

Dieselgate hasnt changed anything

Its still the same car good/bad/neither isnt it?

All cars require repairs from time to time

True about the repairs... but I have owned about 20-25 cars, including 6 VWS.
In part, chose my current TDI sportwagon based on my experiences with my '97 90 hp passat, which ran for close to 200K miles without once abandoning me due to engine problems (probably still running somewhere to this day).
Shame on me for buying my current VW diesel based on prior (simpler) times and engineering.

I won't even start to go into the costs associated with my 2011 - has been often and expensive - not to mention putting me into limp mode more times than I can remember.

We can debate the wisdom of EPA / CARB requirements causing the necessity to engineer so many and such complicated systems... We can also debate what VW should do to make things right... I am amenable to either a fix with a long warranty or buyback (in which case I would consider a VW gasser if the incentive was strong)... BUT I will NEVER own another VW diesel, despite the fact that when it runs, it is in the top 5 of my favorite cars from an enjoyment point of view. (along with VR6 corrado and WRX, Peugeot 405MI-16).

 

[MichVW]

Of course you can sell it...there are loads of people purchasing these cars who are completely undeterred by the EPA nonsense

Carmax or one of the big retailers made some note that selling prices were something like 16% lower than before this all began

That may suck but no one is prohibiting you from parting ways with the car if you want to

Heck, when I bought my 2006 it was a sellers market because it had been announced that it was the last model year for a bit due to EPA emmissions compliance challenges

If you're upset about this then wait until the Chinese Yuan becomes a reserve currency on par with the USD.....then you're really in for a surprise

Move on Jayp111... Just move along already.

 

[jayp111]

Move on Jayp111... Just move along already.

Mich, I've moved on

In fact I just purchased a 2015 used

Based on the incessant whining I think we all know which of us hasnt moved on.....

If you dont like the car then sell it and move on....like you said earlier there are plenty of other cars that fit your needs

 

[obie84]

People, I think its fair to say that we have a serious infestation of trolls on this thread.

Boy, you can say that again.

It would be nice if those who love their TDIs as is, think VW is completely blameless, and believe that the EPA and CARB are the sinister villains in this matter would stop insulting those of us who legitimately feel we were sold a car that did not live up to the claims falsely made by Volkswagen these past several years.

I think if they had purchased a new car VW had advertised as having anti-lock brakes, climate control and DSG, only to learn later that each of these advanced features were intentionally deactivated by defeat devices, the trolls would be singing a different song on this forum.

 

[pkhoury]

I can fit in my Sportwagon/Golf just as comfortably as a Ford Focus or similar sized Japanese vehicle. Sure, the VW has some nice interior features, and despite what I have said in this thread, I do enjoy driving the diesel. However, my point is that the TDI just doesn't have the advantage that it used to when speaking of economy. Those that continue to spout off how great the economy is, really are living under a rock. You pay more at the pump for diesel and other auto makers are knocking on TDI's door as far as economy is concerned with their gas vehicles.

In my part of Michigan I have seen diesel as low as $1.78 per gallon over the last two weeks. Gas is still less though at approximately $1.56.

I suppose it depends where you are in the country. It's been fluctuating here lately. Cheapest I paid was $1.46, and RUG was about a penny more. For the most part, diesel is $1.45-1.70 here. The other consideration for me is having a wagon. Just a quick check on google says the Ford Focus has a cargo area of 13-24 cu ft, while the JSW has 33 cu ft, 67 cu ft with seat area (which I use in my case). Again, not trying to knock your feelings - we all have different uses for our vehicles. I get that. But for me, I typically use ALL the space in my car from the back of my seat to the trunk hatch. So if I were to get something else, I would have to move to a large SUV or a truck.

Overall, I think it should be implied that being a German car, maintenance will ALWAYS be more than a comparable domestic or Asian vehicle. Or European in general, for that matter. I don't think there's even been a cheap European auto to maintain.

Diesels are also harder to work on and more costly to fix for the everyday backyard mechanic.

I suppose, but I beg to differ. At least, I find working on my JSW easier than working on my Saab most of the time, and it probably doesn't help that several of my mentors work on larger diesels for a living (like V12 and V16 prime movers in diesel locomotives).

 

[romad]

Considering that most corporations lie about their products, it depends upon the extent to which they lie. 1mpg isn't something worth losing sleep over.

Actually, lying is called "advertising" in the corporate world. Oh, in government it is called "politics".

 

[obie84]

No. Democracy: "a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

This, of course, is not the traditional definition of democracy, although it has come to involve a representative system in modern definitions, since true democracy is comparatively rare (some New England local governments and Swiss cantons, to my knowledge).
If you were confusing what these individuals did with our particular form of government, it's a republic, as in the Pledge of Allegiance, which says "-to the republic for which it stands-" not "-democracy." There's a reason.

And you're welcome.

I don't recall having said 'Thank you'.

 

[romad]

No. Democracy: "a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

This, of course, is not the traditional definition of democracy, although it has come to involve a representative system in modern definitions, since true democracy is comparatively rare (some New England local governments and Swiss cantons, to my knowledge).
If you were confusing what these individuals did with our particular form of government, it's a republic, as in the Pledge of Allegiance, which says "-to the republic for which it stands-" not "-democracy." There's a reason.

And you're welcome.

+1 And the Founding Fathers wisely were very careful to craft a republican form of government and not a democracy form for these United States. What that couple did was exercise their right to free speech.

 

[pkhoury]

... DPF light is on now for the last 3 days, after we had a new DPF installed 6 months ago, and I have to bring it in again Wednesday. I'm taking it in myself because I believe they are starting to BS my wife. Like yesterday they told her "Even if the DPF light is on, it doesn't necessarily mean its the DPF. And we'll have to charge you for diagnosing the problem." Are they serious?? Is this because the DPF is still under warranty for another 1,000 on our car?...

Dieselgate hasnt changed anything

Its still the same car good/bad/neither isnt it?

All cars require repairs from time to time

Even I will admit, the dealer network sucks. Even worse, the diagnosis fee for stuff still under warranty sucks. It's happened to me before. Always been resolved/waived after calling VW Customer Care, but how many people have time to deal with that crap? Probably not many. I'll be frank - I would buy another TDI in a heartbeat. But no way in hell would I buy any other VW. Just putting that out there - I would be a TDI fanboy. Not a VW fanboy.

 

[pkhoury]

Dear TDIClubers,

Some people wish to keep their TDI for whatever reason. This does not make them foolish, blind, or a VW zealot.

Some people wish to sell their TDI for whatever reason. This does not make them foolish, a whiner, or an EPA zealot.

Everyone's finances, needs, wants, views, and morals are different.

There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a diesel. There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a gasser. There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a hybrid. There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a EV. There are advantages and disadvantages to public transit. There are advantages and disadvantages to get everywhere by your own power.

This is why there are so many different vehicles.

Me? I'd love to dump my 2010 Golf TDI and get into a 2017 diesel Jaguar XE, but it's not out yet and would cost $50k the way i want it specced. My wife would murder me. lol

Edit: Going to add that everyone is frustrated by dieselgate because of uncertainty. We all wish there would be some official word already.

Day 135

+1. Glad you agree we should all agree to disagree. And there are so many different vehicles and choices since as individuals, everyone has different needs and personalities. Life would be boring/suck if everyone had the same vehicle.

 

[jayp111]

Boy, you can say that again.

It would be nice if those who love their TDIs as is, think VW is completely blameless, and believe that the EPA and CARB are the sinister villains in this matter would stop insulting those of us who legitimately feel we were sold a car that did not live up to the claims falsely made by Volkswagen these past several years.

I think if they had purchased a new car VW had advertised as having anti-lock brakes, climate control and DSG, only to learn later that each of these advanced features were intentionally deactivated by defeat devices, the trolls would be singing a different song on this forum.

It would be really nice if people on this forum would quit whining incessantly about what VW should do for them besides fix their cars

This forum used to be all about people who enjoyed their cars and shared info about fixing issues and more importantly how to AVOID them through proper maint

Every generation of TDI's has had their own issues....the MKV PD's had DMF issues, lift pump issues, cam issues and others

Same with MkIV's and every generation before that

Never before has any group of TDI owners whined incessently and expected VW to buy back their cars after they put 80/100/120k miles on them....especially over an issue that doesnt impact reliability, safety or drivability

1% of this thread at best is information

I think the overwhelming majority of the other 99% of posts says more about the narcissism of MANY of the CRD buyers than it does about the vehicles or VW


Happiness has a price.....if this isnt the car for you then sell it and move on....but good luck expecting better/different treatment from any other car manufacturer

 

[ray96disco]

Here's another novel idea....why dont you write your senators/representative and push THEM to pressure the EPA/CARB/VW to implement a fix....sending an email to a rep/sen is almost as easy as whining on a forum

Have you ever written your senators or congressman regarding an issue such as this and had them reply with anything other than "Some of my friends are for it and some of my friends are against it. As for me, I'm for my friends."? Tell me the last time they moved the earth and skies for you. I've never gotten anywhere.

 

[jayp111]

Even I will admit, the dealer network sucks. Even worse, the diagnosis fee for stuff still under warranty sucks. It's happened to me before. Always been resolved/waived after calling VW Customer Care, but how many people have time to deal with that crap? Probably not many. I'll be frank - I would buy another TDI in a heartbeat. But no way in hell would I buy any other VW. Just putting that out there - I would be a TDI fanboy. Not a VW fanboy.

Totally agree

Wouldnt touch a gasser VW with a stick but as demonstrated I will purchase another TDI

There are no excuses for a lot of crap from VW dealers but the fact of the matter is that its been that way for a long time and its no different unfortunately than what you get from GM, Ford or Honda

You have an issue and they will charge you to diagnose IF it turns out to not be a warranty issue

It sucks but thats the way every dealer on the planet operates and is why I try to avoid dealers unless under warranty.....been there, done that unfortunately as did lots of others wrt DMF and other issues in past

I've had just as crappy service from Toyota dealers as I have from VW....its not an excuse, its just an acceptance of reality I live in....its also why folks seek out the list of TDI Guru's on this site

 

[jayp111]

Have you ever written your senators or congressman regarding an issue such as this and had them reply with anything other than "Some of my friends are for it and some of my friends are against it. As for me, I'm for my friends."? Tell me the last time they moved the earth and skies for you.

Depends on the rep/senator

I do know people who have been helped by elected officials to get stuff resolved

 

[ray96disco]

I don't know of one rep or senator that's helped anyone I know (That's not to say they haven't but I don't know about it.)

 

[obie84]

And that was my original point about them...

+1 And the Founding Fathers wisely were very careful to craft a republican form of government and not a democracy form for these United States. What that couple did was exercise their right to free speech.

I only used the word 'democracy' as shorthand for a society like our own where people do indeed enjoy the benefits of freedom of expression.

 

[mjLyco]

Have you ever written your senators or congressman regarding an issue such as this and had them reply with anything other than "Some of my friends are for it and some of my friends are against it. As for me, I'm for my friends."? Tell me the last time they moved the earth and skies for you. I've never gotten anywhere.

I wrote my congressman and both senators. I only got a response from my congressman and it was a pretty cut and paste nothing response.

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Volkswagen emissions scandal, also known as Dieselgate.

As you may know, on September 18, 2015, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued a Notice of Violation of the “Clean Air Act” to German automaker Volkswagen. They allegedly altered computer programs so that certain vehicles would meet U.S. emission standards during lab tests.

I agree that any violation of U.S. law by Volkswagen must be thoroughly investigated and I will closely monitor the EPA’s inquiry into this matter.

Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts on this issue. If you’d like to stay updated on my work in Congress, I’d encourage you to sign up for my newsletter by clicking here. You can also visit my website, Facebook page, and Twitter profile for more information. For any questions, concerns, or thoughts, please feel free to call my office at xxx-xxx-xxxx[redacted]. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

[obie84]

To each his own...

It would be really nice if people on this forum would quit whining incessantly about what VW should do for them besides fix their cars

I think the overwhelming majority of the other 99% of posts says more about the narcissism of MANY of the CRD buyers than it does about the vehicles or VW


Happiness has a price.....if this isnt the car for you then sell it and move on....

And if this isn't the forum for you, then by all means feel free to move on to another

 

[TDILeo]

Even I will admit, the dealer network sucks. Even worse, the diagnosis fee for stuff still under warranty sucks. It's happened to me before. Always been resolved/waived after calling VW Customer Care, but how many people have time to deal with that crap? Probably not many. I'll be frank - I would buy another TDI in a heartbeat. But no way in hell would I buy any other VW. Just putting that out there - I would be a TDI fanboy. Not a VW fanboy.

Not sure if I would buy another TDI simply based on the associated costs with the emission system. That gives me the heebie jeebies. That said, all new cars are much more complex and the average owner might have reservations about tackling some maintenance items. TDI or not, cars have associated maintenance costs, some expensive. It is why I keep my 85 GTI. I can do a lot of it myself.

If a 'buyback' is in the cards, I suppose a GTI would work for me. There really aren't many cars at that price point that deliver like VW. The whole package, cabin, handling, utility and performance is hard to walk away from.