Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[Jimmy Coconuts]

What a clusterf***. Bet this results in VW pulling out of the USA diesel market for good.

 

[learningneverends]

Read the original PDF linked in the first post.

VW admitted to cheating, when told that they wouldn't get any 2016 diesels certified unless they could explain why their cars were doing so much worse than the tests indicated they should perform.

Its called an admission under duress.

 

[raybo]

Its called an admission under duress.

It's an emission admission...

 

[vwUMO]

The Fix is here!

Much like the robustness of the Diesel Fuel only ring, you'll find this fix for the emissions issues just as easy.
Step 1.
Open hood
Step 2
Use alcohol wipe to clean engine cover surface
Step 3
Affix new badge
Step 4
Close hood
There, you too can be compliant! #humor here is the pic of the completed job.

[/url][/IMG]

 

[titleist1]

still some half truths being printed....one article mentions VW cheated like this to avoid putting in the more expensive urea treatment systems other mfg's had to in order to meet standards, then they mention one of the vehicles tested by WVU was a 2013 Passat which we all know has the DEF system.

Maybe by next week the facts will be on the table.

 

[Borsig]

Does anyone actually know if the ea288 in the 2015s is subject to this? Im seeing mixed reports

 

[tomo366]

Does anyone actually know if the ea288 in the 2015s is subject to this? Im seeing mixed reports

It says all 2015's the EA 288 is in all 2015's

 

[learningneverends]

It's an emission admission...

That's funny. I don't know a whole lot about diesels but my 2011 does not seems to put out any smoke, smog or whatever. Its still clean in my mind compared to my 1999 Ford F250 7.3 Powerstroke so I will sleep ok tonight. A few years back I was in Guatemala City. Diesels were it. Everywhere. I don't even think 25% of the autos were gas. And the place stank like diesel fumes. So some regulations are clearly needed but to say my car is kicking out 40x the emissions? That's nuts. The fix will have to be drastic to change that I would think. VW had a really neat small pickup powered by diesel down in Guatemala. The sales man who sold me my TDI told me it was coming to the US in 2017 last week. Wonder if that will happen?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Every 4-cylinder TDI in the United States from 2009 to present is affected by this.

 

[newyorktdi]

40 TIMES the amount of emissions as when it's being tested? That's ridiculous. I wonder how much of a health hazard my car is now.

 

[wxman]

http://engineering.berkeley.edu/2009/03/ozone-weekend-effect
Smog does cause serious health problems, and reducing nitrogen oxides does actually reduce smog (at least once you get them reduced below the peak level - the weekend effect being when they're above peak). (This is actually not how I thought things worked before, and I've now had to remove a link from my signature that went contrary to that.)
Also, nitrogen oxides can form acid rain.

We've known since these studies were conducted (weekend ozone effect) that reducing NOx in NOx- limited regions would reduce ground-level ozone.

Nevertheless, according to EPA's National Emission Inventory (NEI), anthropogenic VOCs were reduced from 16,898,000 tons in 2000 to 14,238,000 tons in 2014, a significant but not really huge reduction.

According to a fairly recent study (2013), gasoline vehicles are still the primary source of VOCs (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/04/vocs-20130419.html), so the claim that VOCs are primarily biogenic is dubious.

 

[andyrooski17]

My car is due for 20k service within the next few weeks. Do we think that there will be a mandatory update by then? Or will I be able to avoid it until 30k service (which I already paid for )?

 

[wxman]

40 TIMES the amount of emissions as when it's being tested? That's ridiculous. I wonder how much of a health hazard my car is now.

The ICCT study which precipitated this investigation measured NOx emissions from the 2013 Passat with SCR at an average of 6 times the regulatory limit, or about 0.24 grams/mile.

Interestingly, this is almost exactly what EPA uses as an emission factor for NOx from 2015 diesel passenger cars (0.2334 grams/mile).

 

[learningneverends]

40 TIMES the amount of emissions as when it's being tested? That's ridiculous. I wonder how much of a health hazard my car is now.

Its worse then working in a coal mine! Give it to me. And in other news one coal burning power plant being built each day in China will produce as much emissions as all the VW TDI's in the entire US.

 

[740GLE]

Just read the link in post #1 and saw a reference to particulate matter too. Great, so now the DPF will likely need MORE regen cycles than before too?

Nox is a particulate in the eyes of the epa

I can't wait to see how they did this, gotta love ingenuity!!!

 

[Tdijarhead]

Remember when the government went after Toyota? We were treated to round the clock news coverage of Toyota cars accelerating and placing their occupants and others in danger. We even had the head of Toyota coming to the US and issuing a tearful sobbing apology. Bottom line of subsequent investigation, they found the cars were not at fault but rather the drivers.

Have you heard of random acceleration since? No?
Who would have guessed?

Toyota had to pay off the appropriate people.

Volkswagen is on pace to become the largest car manufacturer in the world this year, its their turn to pay.

Can we really believe an organization that dumps mine waste into a river turning it orange and whose policies in California critics say are a contributing factor to the problems California is having with wildfires?

I'm not defending VW but I think the burden of proof should be on the EPA's shoulders since they have become such an out of control organization.

Take a step back guys and wait and see what comes of this, it would'nt surprise me to learn that its all or mostly made up smoke and mirrors. If you like your diesel, keep it and drive it because you like it.

 

[rac]

I'll just refer the IRS to VW when the agency contacts me to claw back the tax credit I got for buying the car.

Should be hassle free.

 

[learningneverends]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...iolated-epa-rules-500k-cars-recalled-breaking
Up to 40x is what this article says. I am sure its lower for some. To cut the emissions to 1/40 I would guess something radical would have to be done. Again I don't know a ton about diesels but that just seems like a huge difference.

 

[pfredricks]

Recall

Given that no other manufacturer has produced a non-urea passenger car diesel, doesn't that kind of tell us that any software updates will absolutely decimate the economy and power of our cars?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billvis...-owners-probably-arent-going-to-like-the-fix/

Anyone have any legitimate estimates on what kind of mileage and HP figures to expect after a recall "fix"?

Thank you

 

[J.R.]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...iolated-epa-rules-500k-cars-recalled-breaking
Up to 40x is what this article says. I am sure its lower for some. To cut the emissions to 1/40 I would guess something radical would have to be done. Again I don't know a ton about diesels but that just seems like a huge difference.

40x.000000000001 is still pretty small FWIW. Wait for all the facts IMO.

 

[learningneverends]

40x.000000000001 is still pretty small FWIW. Wait for all the facts IMO.

Good point. 40x almost nothing is almost nothing so I wont worry regardless. In fact its still so clean maybe the EPA should have a more realistic standard.

 

[meerschm]

Reported to be the VW response to the noon EPA news brief:

Volkswagen Group of America, Inc., Volkswagen AG and Audi AG received today notice from the US Environmental Protection Agency, US Department of Justice and the California Air Resources Board of an investigation related to certain emissions compliance matters.
VW is cooperating with the investigation; we are unable to comment further at this time.
​

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...iolated-epa-rules-500k-cars-recalled-breaking

 

[no-blue-screen]

Man the tdiclub servers are under heavy load today. If they were able to pass with software then I would think a software update would bring the vehicles into compliance. What I am worried about is why VW would do this in the first place. Why do they need this "defeat device" . seems to me they are trying to cover something major by doing this. Didn't they think someone would find out what they were doing eventually? It just seems shady to me for them to do this.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I'll just refer the IRS to VW when the agency contacts me to claw back the tax credit I got for buying the car.

Should be hassle free.

IRS is busy with Coca-Cola at the moment and its 3.3 billion $ + interest fine.

http://www.businessinsider.com/irs-coca-cola-tax-bill-2015-9

 

[yasuep]

I still have faith in both VW and the EPA

I've been happy with my 2010 man TDI jetta( CJAA) 112k miles. Its been stone reliable, 2 burnt out headlights, 1 sudden battery death, 1 glow plug( piezo failure) and the silly intake manifold mechanical stop. 38~40mpg in combined driving, mid 40's to high 40's on the highway. Perfectly happy. I am not ready to pass judgment until all the dust has settled. Perhaps its a communication error between the EPA and VW. I just had my car go through the smog test( CA) a couple weeks ago, diagnostics only. Hey, if VW made an error in judgment, it won't be the first auto manufacturer to make a mistake. Does it diminish the fact that VW makes great and affordable cars.
P

 

[meerschm]

Just for background,

today and yesterday we had a code orange air quality day in the local DC area and a few other places for elevated levels of ground level ozone (and some PM)

http://www.intellicast.com/Storm/Severe/Bulletins.aspx?location=USVA0007

 

[andyrooski17]

Given that no other manufacturer has produced a non-urea passenger car diesel, doesn't that kind of tell us that any software updates will absolutely decimate the economy and power of our cars?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billvis...-owners-probably-arent-going-to-like-the-fix/

Anyone have any legitimate estimates on what kind of mileage and HP figures to expect after a recall "fix"?

Thank you

It is a scary thought, and Borsig expressed a similar concern. But, there are a couple things that point to the sky maybe not having to fall so much.

1. Could the car just be programmed to use more AdBlue? Maybe the reason they had the "Defeat Device" is just so people wouldn't complain about having to refill DEF 2x as often.

2. What about the 3.0 L diesels? (A6, Touareg, etc). Those are apparently fine? and they make plenty of power and do well on fuel efficiency.

 

[learningneverends]

Last link because I want to stop thinking about this

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billvis...-owners-probably-arent-going-to-like-the-fix/

So this article suggests the 'fix' means we lose power, torque and efficiency. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[nj1266]

This will be my first and last diesel car. I am transitioning to electric. I already lease a Spark EV and I drive it more than I do my diesel. It is more economical for me too.

At 2.56$ per gallon at my filling station, diesel has never been cheaper in SoCal. When I drive my TDI to and from work I average 47 mpg. Doing the math, 1000 miles cost me 54.30$.

By contrast driving my EV averages 5.5 miles per kWh. Every kWh costs me 0.11 cents. Doing the math, driving for 1000 miles costs me $20.

So despite the cheapness of diesel, it is still 34.30$ cheaper to commute to and from work with my EV.

Once the 200 mile Chevy Bolt is available in 2017, I will use my TDI as a downpayment towards the Bolt. If that is not available, then I will get the Chevy Volt. Its 53 mile range is perfect for my to and from work round trip.

But Full EV is my preference. It is economical, its cost of maintenance is 1/3 less than an ICE car, and in states where energy is produced from Natural Gas and renewable like CA it is less polluting. In CA, you will eventually have to get an electric car. so might as well start now.

 

[hudsonian]

I wonder if Mondays launch of the 2016 Passat will be postponed or cancelled?