Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[maybe368]

so why wouldn't I take the dealer who sold me the car to court locally. They are the ones who told me all the details. They took my money. Let them work it out with their parent company!

No reason, have at it, I would like to see a precedent setting win from a comsumer with the means to do it...Mark

 

[Stimulacra]

Latest breakdown from Vox. Pretty detailed and good explanation for someone not familiar with VW or Diesel cars.

Volkswagen's appalling clean diesel scandal, explained
http://bit.ly/1LrUrDw

 

[Borsig]

Im not dreaming, just putting out facts.

VW bought back my CR TDI last year under lemon law and i replaced it with a GTI to avoid all the foreseen emissions problems in the future with a CR.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One lemon law car does not equal half a million functioning cars.

It's not even on the same plane of reality

 

[tariq]

And so did kia and hyundai.
There were no buy backs. But people did get $20-200 in class action disbursements.
Stop dreaming. You'll only end up disappointed.

This is different in that the performance of the car will change with any fix (that did not occur in your Kia/ Hyundai example), not just the fuel economy. When I bought my 2013 TDI JSW, it was the test drive that convinced me to make the purchase. I immediately noticed the amazing torque and power during that test drive. If any fix diminishes how the car performed when purchased (a purchase that was based on not only fuel economy, environmental concerns but also on performance), then fraud was committed by VW on me the consumer (and the conditions and basis of the original sell were fraudulent).

 

[brewpastor]

so we should buy EPA stock? Oh right, we can't do that either...

 

[sandydeb]

I'm afraid it's only going to get worse before it gets better. I don't think any "solution" will make "everyone" happy. It's an impossible scenario.

There is. Instead of fining them $37k/car, EPA could just require them to buy back all cars sold.

Financial, this would be a giant hit for the company comparable to paying out huge fine. However, EPA would rather just keep the money for themselves, thanl you very much.

 

[Borsig]

Theres no way the epa makes a deal to reduce fines for a buyback.

This isnt about getting cars off the road. It's about money. Duh?

 

[romad]

He's talking about the onboard ICE. When the battery's depleted or is put on hold, the ICE turns on, which turns the generator that puts juice back into the battery while your driving.

Except that is just a small generator to get you home or to a charging station. The Volt is marketed as an EV not as a hybrid (though I hear there is a new model coming out for 2016 so maybe GM has made the Volt a hybrid). The generator is not intended to be running all the time is it?

 

[applejacks]

Shareholders > you.
That's why. They have your money. They need it to pay fines. Youll be lucky to get that loyalty gift card and a detune. You really dont get how this all works, do you?

It should be interesting to see how it plays out. I have some mixed feelings on the entire deal. I feel seriously doped that what I bought isn't necessarily what I bought, at all. It's fraud plain and simple. On the other hand, I love the vehicle.

 

[sandydeb]

Theres no way the epa makes a deal to reduce fines for a buyback.

This isnt about getting cars off the road. It's about money. Duh?

Yup. They only get cars off the road when THEY are the ones paying for it, to help the favored manufacturers.

Looking at you, cash for clunkers!

 

[brewpastor]

well, I'm going to drive my environmentally toxic car to the store so i can purchase some genetically altered food sold as organic.

 

[CDubber]

There were no buy backs. But people did get $20-200 in class action disbursements.

I'm sure VW executives are hopeful you are right. Me, I don't share your "optimism."

 

[Chris]

Except that is just a small generator to get you home or to a charging station. The Volt is marketed as an EV not as a hybrid (though I hear there is a new model coming out for 2016 so maybe GM has made the Volt a hybrid). The generator is not intended to be running all the time is it?

I think you're confusing it with the BMW range extender.

The Volt can be driven all day long as a hybrid. With undiminished performance.

 

[Borsig]

Sorry. I'm a realist. People that a raised by German expats usually are.

 

[boliver101]

No excuse for cheating on standards

It is a decisions that blur the line between ethics and morals.

Depending on your view of environmental issues, this form of cycle beating could be called morally superior. Less fuel consumed and less soot.

It is immoral and unethical to violate the standards. Among other things the pupose of the standards is to create a level playing field for manufacturers on issues around health and safety and other things like bribary and corruption. I am also a member of the engineering community and I have no patience for individuals who try to rationalis etheir way around this kind of thing.

It would seem to me that they were having trouble meeting the standard and the Engineering team worked out a way to cheat it, an dthe fact that nobody has spoken up about it for at least 7 years makes me embarrased on the part of the Engineering community.

I bought my TDI wagon about a year ago and have been talking up its performance and "German engineering" ever since. I am disappointed and ashamed.

 

[bhtooefr]

Except that is just a small generator to get you home or to a charging station. The Volt is marketed as an EV not as a hybrid (though I hear there is a new model coming out for 2016 so maybe GM has made the Volt a hybrid). The generator is not intended to be running all the time is it?

The intent is that you plug in normally, but if you go on a roadtrip, you can use the generator all the time, it's big enough to reasonably drive the car. Also, even on the pre-2016 Volt, it's not a pure serial hybrid, it can at higher speeds couple the engine to the wheels mechanically. The 2016, IIRC, is always a parallel hybrid if the engine's running.

 

[makattack]

Ok, almost everyone. Anyone having purchased a TDI that feels ripped off because of false advertising(saying a cars emissions are clean when they will not pass EPA tests) would be shafted. I stand corrected.

First time caller / listener. I went with a 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen S (Manual) having traded in my Subaru WRX from 2002. I was long holding out for Subie to come out with their boxer diesel (and always wondered why they kept it out of the US -- now I know!)

Well, I decided I can forgo AWD and gas performance in the interest of extending my range. I was always skeptical of "clean diesel" claims having worked around military hardware in my young'un days (had license for HMMWV's, M113's, Sheridans, 2.5 ton trucks), but bought into this because I don't drive commute for work, and wanted a long range vehicle to get me to my RC flying fields and events with fewer refueling and more cargo capacity.

Unfortunately, it's looking like this issue will have repercussions that affect me. Namely in future parts availability, cost, etc. if VW permanently pulls out of the NA market. In fact, all the other countries/federations that are looking into this issue may even mean some World-wide impact that we can't presume to know/predict now.

Phew... I'm somewhat glad I went with a 3 year lease instead of purchasing based on my lack of first hand experience with VW.

On another level, color me surprised that the SCR/adblue system isn't enough to get the emissions to standard, knowing that's why the AWD option and independent/multilink suspension had to be sacrificed for it for North America.

 

[maybe368]

The stockholders (who sold) have simply fined the other stockholders (who didn't).

And I am sure that the folks that made this terrible decision own quite a few of them. It is just another fallout onto the innocent shareholders...Mark

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

A buyback seems almost as a guarantee in my opinion, if the fix is a detune and lessening the capabilities.

Hope you're right. I would like nothing more than to wash my hands of it. Who knows what problems may appear if the car is forced to operate under a different set of parameters than it was designed for.

Not going to hold my breath though.

 

[sandydeb]

Let us step back for a minute and applaud the fact that the EPA - which neither tested the vehicles initially (manufacturers do it themselves) nor caught this fraud (some German air quality non-profit working with UWVa did) - is looking to pad its pockets with billions.

Because, something...?

 

[compu_85]

Everyone should just turn off their computers and chill for a bit. Waaay too much conjecture being thrown around. Drive more, worry less.

Great advice

 

[yasuep]

so while we wait

Can some one give me a realistic potential solution for the CBAA/CJAA ?
Sw update, car runs in EPA mode all the time.
More egr, reduces NOX,
Power drops, torque drops.
May be MPG drops.
Reduced NOx achieved by reduced combustion chamber temp, so does that mean the DPF is under more or less stress ?
Lower temp typically means less efficiency but what about the cats ?
Less or more stress ? Increase in the DPF cleaning or less ?

I like my car and want it to last a long time.
a slight mileage hit isn't the end of the world
P

 

[TO_TDI]

Except that is just a small generator to get you home or to a charging station. The Volt is marketed as an EV not as a hybrid (though I hear there is a new model coming out for 2016 so maybe GM has made the Volt a hybrid). The generator is not intended to be running all the time is it?

The gasoline engine, when needed, drives a generator that subsequently provides power the electric motor, which in turn propels the car down the road. It does not charge the battery.

It can run on gas as long as needed. It is not a hybrid because the gas engine never drives the wheels, it only runs a generator.

http://archive.freep.com/uploads/images/2008/09/0917_volt.jpg

 

[divewreck]

Just found out that my A3 may not pass the CARB until all emission recall work has been completed. Contacting my dealer & Audi USA.

 

[tsingtao]

Just a small wager: I'll bet the Class Action Scumbag Law firms start advertising on this Forum for clients....

Lawyers serve a useful purpose, even if they are scumbags. (No, I am not one.)

If it were not for the threat of being sued, god only knows what companies would try and get away with.

Yes, they still try and get away with stuff even then, but it would be worse without that threat hanging over their head.

 

[rhino4evr]

Just found out that my A3 may not pass the CARB until all emission recall work has been completed. Contacting my dealer & Audi USA.

Yeah, I live in FL where emission testing is non-existent. If I lived in CA? I'd be in panic mode.

 

[mjrogersky]

I doubt there will be a buy back like the Tacoma. I had a Tacoma that was bought back by Toyota. The reason for the buyback was the trucks were breaking in half. The local dealer had one they inspected that when they put it on the lift frame broke right behind the bed. They were a safety hazard for the driver and everyone on the road. If you truck failed inspection you turned in your keys until they wrote you a check. The cost of replacing the frame on one of the trucks was supposed to be around 10k with labor. I don't see that happening here.

 

[ameoba]

The irony is that VW got caught (and owned up to) something that all auto manufacturers are doing - finding ways to get around the stupid mileage standards and manipulating the test.

Listen - the American manufacturers tune everything to maximize the tests (as do most others). The problem is that the tests are so far from real world that it doesn't reflect, and (quite frankly) they drive terribly.

Do I agree with what VW did? No. Am I defending them? Sort of.

And before everyone jumps all over me, let's stop comparing the big 3 liter diesels (X5, 335d, Jeep GC, etc) and talk about the small displacement 4 cylinders - which is what this action is about. I own a 3 liter diesel. It's amazing. But it's also VASTLY more complex that the 2 liter - especially on the emissions side.

We should be talking about and comparing with:
328d
Chevy Cruz diesel
Mazda 3 diesel
Benz 250 BlueTec's (2.1 liter)

What's really unfortunate is that VW just gave diesel a serious black eye in North America. And frankly, more small diesels on the road would be a good thing - especially given how "un-diesel" most of them are now.

Just my .02. Flame away.

 

[Borsig]

I doubt there will be a buy back like the Tacoma. I had a Tacoma that was bought back by Toyota. The reason for the buyback was the trucks were breaking in half. The local dealer had one they inspected that when they put it on the lift frame broke right behind the bed. They were a safety hazard for the driver and everyone on the road. If you truck failed inspection you turned in your keys until they wrote you a check. The cost of replacing the frame on one of the trucks was supposed to be around 10k with labor. I don't see that happening here.

Exactly. Resources.

It takes very little effort on VW's part to nerf the hell out of your car, or sell you more DEF.

Class action is much cheaper than a buyback.

VW will lose. You will lose.

The EPA and the lawyers will win.

Ende.

 

[pandagolf]

Is there a chance that the newer engines in the MK7 with the adblue tanks are unaffected by this? And that the EPA is lumping ALL diesel engines into this scandal until further notice?