Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[PlaneCrazy]

Guess what causes global warming? CO2... Guess what modern day GAS cars have on them? Converters that are designed to put out MORE CO2 than ever...


Funny how the EPA causes the real problems eh? Talk about danger to your health? When the atmosphere burns away... who ya gonna call?

You aren't making any sense. CO2 emissions are generally proportional to the amount of carbon burned. CO2 and water are the natural products of complete combustion. Combustion is never 100% complete and a small amount of much more toxic CO is generated. Emission control devices are designed to convert this to CO2. This applies to diesels as well.

Gasoline car fuel consumption is trending downward and with that, so too is CO2 emissions. Proportionally, this is a much greater reduction than any increase from converting CO to CO2. Overall then, automotive CO2 generation will improve as a fuel consumption improves. This is as good for the environment as it is for the wallet!

 

[oilhammer]

BTW My car still pollutes less than a 2006 TDI.

Read the graph again. It absolutely puts out WAY more NOx than a 2006 does if we are to take the WVU test at face value.

 

[peterdaniel]

You aren't making any sense. CO2 emissions are generally proportional to the amount of carbon burned. CO2 and water are the natural products of complete combustion. Combustion is never 100% complete and a small amount of much more toxic CO is generated. Emission control devices are designed to convert this to CO2. This applies to diesels as well.
Gasoline car fuel consumption is trending downward and with that, so too is CO2 emissions. Proportionally, this is a much greater reduction than any increase from converting CO to CO2. Overall then, automotive CO2 generation will improve as a fuel consumption improves. This is as good for the environment as it is for the wallet!

I know that makes no sense... Neither does the EPA...

 

[turbobrick240]

Going from a 42+ mpg tdi to a 28?mpg bmw and thinking you are doing the environment a favor is pretty hilarious.

 

[peterdaniel]

Going from a 42+ mpg tdi to a 28?mpg bmw and thinking you are doing the environment a favor is pretty hilarious.

There are SO many things I want to say to that guy but I promised to behave or else I get the permanent corner seat...

 

[joeelmex]

Going from a 42+ mpg tdi to a 28?mpg bmw and thinking you are doing the environment a favor is pretty hilarious.

Not sure where your getting that information but so far on my early test I'm getting 35 Mpg going 70 with the economy option on.

Did I also mention that the car turns it self off automatically at a stop light aND turns it self on.

I will get a better average next week when I get back to work.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeah, the question mark was supposed to indicate it was a guess. I bet if you look at real world combined figures as shown by something like fuelly, I wasn't far off.

 

[ATR]

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but an excellent engineering and business analysis of why it happened and how they did it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZSU1FPDiao

I was just about to post the same thing... hackaday just posted a article on this whole dieselgate thing (article also points to the same video at the start):
http://hackaday.com/2015/12/31/32c3-dieselgate-inside-the-vws-ecu/

 

[sriracha]

I like BMWs a lot, but trading in your TDI for one defeats the purpose of being environmentally friendly. If you really cared about the environment, you wouldn't treat cars as if they were disposable. You are ignoring the impact of manufacturing and transportation of these shiny new cars.

For the sake of the environment, when you realize BMW, along with all other manufacturers, cheat the system too, please just hang on to your car and drive it.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

I like BMWs a lot, but trading in your TDI for one defeats the purpose of being environmentally friendly. If you really cared about the environment, you wouldn't treat cars as if they were disposable. You are ignoring the impact of manufacturing and transportation of these shiny new cars.
For the sake of the environment, when you realize BMW, along with all other manufacturers, cheat the system too, please just hang on to your car and drive it.

The average person doesn't think about manufacturing impact on the environment. Kind of along the lines of people that just HAVE to get a new construction home, rather than a pre-owned one for which the trees that were used to make it were hacked down long ago.

 

[IFRCFI]

Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, invest...

If you really cared about the environment, you wouldn't treat cars as if they were disposable.

Guarantee that 99 out of 100 people who come here 'pissed at VW' and can 'no longer drive their TDIs in good conscious' are simply bored and want something new and shiny. The grousing is simply psychological support for their need, or justification for their spouse.

This event caught the habitual car traders off guard, and now they feel trapped. Sad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[whitedog]

Guarantee that 99 out of 100 people who come here 'pissed at VW' and can 'no longer drive their TDIs in good conscious' are simply bored and what something new and shiny. The grousing is simply psychological support for their need, or justification for their spouse.

This event caught the habitual car traders off guard, and now they feel trapped. Sad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am sure that there are some of those folks, but I think that 99% is way too high. I am optimistic about people and I would bet the number is less than 50%. Unfortunately, there are those that are uninformed and would rather buy a new something that gets worse fuel mileage and is over all worse for the environment than keeping their TDI as is.

Want to make a difference? Sell you car, ride a bike, slug a ride, take a bus, train, LPC, whatever, and move to a place where this is possible.

 

[sriracha]

Want to make a difference? Sell you car, ride a bike, slug a ride, take a bus, train, LPC, whatever, and move to a place where this is possible.

Agreed. The reality no car is good for the environment.

Reducing your environmental impact is all you can do. It's still an impact.

One of the reasons I bought a TDI, was to vote with my dollars to support the diesel industry, hoping that it would expand into a biodiesel industry of some sort.

I was told that all diesel sold in California is 5% biodiesel...it's a start. But this fiasco has shamed diesel along with VW, causing people to jump ship for gas. Not bueno.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

I am sure that there are some of those folks, but I think that 99% is way too high. I am optimistic about people and I would bet the number is less than 50%. Unfortunately, there are those that are uninformed and would rather buy a new something that gets worse fuel mileage and is over all worse for the environment than keeping their TDI as is.
Want to make a difference? Sell you car, ride a bike, slug a ride, take a bus, train, LPC, whatever, and move to a place where this is possible.

Yup. I pick up slugs on my way to work. Free use of the EZPass/HOV lanes, FTW! That brings up an interesting question. I wonder how many gallons of fuel are saved over the course of a year by each person picking up 2+ slugs to and from work?

 

[ezshift5]

I am........I am optimistic about people and I would bet the number is less than 50%.

Want to make a difference? Sell you car, ride a bike, slug a ride, take a bus, train, LPC, whatever, and move to a place where this is possible.

...sure appreciate optimisim vis-à-vis people (plus the novel expression for the share-a-ride concept)....................


season's best. ez

 

[k^2]

Read the graph again. It absolutely puts out WAY more NOx than a 2006 does if we are to take the WVU test at face value.

Is there a graph comparing real life emissions of a 2006 or earlier TDI vs 2009 and later? Has the same test been performed on both engines? From what I understand (I am not an expert) but the combustion process in both engines is pretty much the same. In addition the CR engines contain the NOx trap which must help at least a bit (apparently not enough), and when it comes to the emission of solid particles the CR diesels beat the pre 2006 models hands down.

 

[Ch3No2]

Ok kids...just recieved a letter from Calif Air Resources Board...
They want me to submit my 2010 Jetta TDI to ATDS (Automotive Testing and Development Services) for 3 months for evaluating the emissions
In exchange....
*Check for $1500 upon return
*Use of a fully insured & fueled vehicle of comparison with no mileage limitations
*Returned washed and vacuumed

Has anyone else done this?

 

[Rudyjo]

Not sure where your getting that information but so far on my early test I'm getting 35 Mpg going 70 with the economy option on.

Did I also mention that the car turns it self off automatically at a stop light aND turns it self on.

I will get a better average next week when I get back to work.

This question is not directed at your car, but all cars that have the automatic engine off/on system.
What is the life cycle of the starter on these cars? I would think that using the starter 50 times a day instead of 5 times a day would wear it out within a few years. If this were the case, where would you be saving money? Yes the car uses less fuel, but that would be offset by the cost of replacing the starter.
Maybe they use extra heavy duty starters ? Just curious.

 

[zagato27]

Ok kids...just recieved a letter from Calif Air Resources Board...
They want me to submit my 2010 Jetta TDI to ATDS (Automotive Testing and Development Services) for 3 months for evaluating the emissions
In exchange....
*Check for $1500 upon return
*Use of a fully insured & fueled vehicle of comparison with no mileage limitations
*Returned washed and vacuumed

Has anyone else done this?

Wonder what they consider "vehicle of comparison"? Also, what kind of mileage do they expect to put on your car? For the testing, will the vehicle be used by someone everyday in the normal course of their day perhaps hauling stuff etc. or will it be used strictly driving a set loop? Be nice to get some more details.

 

[CHenry]

Ok kids...just recieved a letter from Calif Air Resources Board...
They want me to submit my 2010 Jetta TDI to ATDS (Automotive Testing and Development Services) for 3 months for evaluating the emissions
In exchange....
*Check for $1500 upon return
*Use of a fully insured & fueled vehicle of comparison with no mileage limitations
*Returned washed and vacuumed

Has anyone else done this?

How far and where will they drive it? Will it be disassembled or modified in any way? Will it be driven on public roads and by whom? Who covers the collision, liability and comprehensive?

They are offering you "Rent-A-Wreck" rates to rent your car and presumably offering you a similar quality car (that probably won't get the mileage of your TDI) for the same period.

Do you think the offer is attractive?

It sounds as if they want a group of older Gen1 TDI cars for in-use testing, possibly as a basis for comparison to modified cars with one or more "fixes" VW may be proposing for Gen 1 cars.

 

[sriracha]

Found this on the internet, need to confirm at the pump, but I only use Shell diesel in my TDI:

When it comes to Shell Diesel: In the US, Shell offers ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) which may contain up to 5% biodiesel (again, designated as "B5"). However note that each Shell station is independently owned and may elect to offer a different NON-SHELL biodiesel blend at their discretion. The diesel fuel dispenser is required to be properly labeled as to whether it is a Shell branded product, and must show the bio content of the diesel being dispensed. So please look for this labeling and if you should have any questions, please discuss directly with the specific Shell station OWNER.

In addition, all Shell-Branded Diesel meets the ASTM D 975 Specification. Again, all Shell branded diesel is blended to contain a max of 5% bio content (ie max B5) across the USA. If the retail dispenser is labeled 6%-20% biodiesel, then it is not a Shell-branded fuel. And if it is a diesel fuel with more than 5% biodiesel content, then the dispenser must also have a label that states that it is not a Shell-branded product.

 

[Ch3No2]

How far and where will they drive it? Will it be disassembled or modified in any way? Will it be driven on public roads and by whom? Who covers the collision, liability and comprehensive?

They are offering you "Rent-A-Wreck" rates to rent your car and presumably offering you a similar quality car (that probably won't get the mileage of your TDI) for the same period.

Do you think the offer is attractive?

It sounds as if they want a group of older Gen1 TDI cars for in-use testing, possibly as a basis for comparison to modified cars with one or more "fixes" VW may be proposing for Gen 1 cars.

That's why I am asking if anyone has done this.....
I am also wondering if it comes back at all.

 

[whitedog]

Ok kids...just recieved a letter from Calif Air Resources Board...
They want me to submit my 2010 Jetta TDI to ATDS (Automotive Testing and Development Services) for 3 months for evaluating the emissions
In exchange....
*Check for $1500 upon return
*Use of a fully insured & fueled vehicle of comparison with no mileage limitations
*Returned washed and vacuumed

Has anyone else done this?

I'd hit it.

But then, I don't see my car as a special part of my life that should be fawned over and protected from all of the dirty, nasty things in the world. I see it as a tool. Maybe I'm the tool for thinking this, but I yam what I yam.

 

[Diesl]

Odd decisions

[...] I was happy with them until this news broke out. I cant drive this every day knowing I am polluting as much as a bus. Don't want to get into an argument on this part with other members who don't mind the issue. That's my opinion and in good conscious I could not drive this anymore.[...]

That's a very odd story. When you say 'polluting as much as a bus', what comes to my mind is the image of an old yellow school bus without particulate filter, billowing huge clouds of black smoke. I assume that's what you intended to imply, and not one of the new natural gas powered buses...

Then you mention your conscience (for the environment, I assume), and conclude by telling us you bought a BMW X-something (an SUV, I assume) and a 328i. For the environment? Really??

 

[romad]

I was told that all diesel sold in California is 5% biodiesel...it's a start.

Nope! AFAIK, CARB still hasn't done it; if they have, it was done on the sly with no announcement. The D2 pumps don't mention BD unless the station is promoting BD. However, for most of 2015 I was filling up with RD from Propel.

 

[romad]

Found this on the internet, need to confirm at the pump, but I only use Shell diesel in my TDI:

When it comes to Shell Diesel: In the US, Shell offers ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) which may contain up to 5% biodiesel (again, designated as "B5"). However note that each Shell station is independently owned and may elect to offer a different NON-SHELL biodiesel blend at their discretion. The diesel fuel dispenser is required to be properly labeled as to whether it is a Shell branded product, and must show the bio content of the diesel being dispensed. So please look for this labeling and if you should have any questions, please discuss directly with the specific Shell station OWNER.

In addition, all Shell-Branded Diesel meets the ASTM D 975 Specification. Again, all Shell branded diesel is blended to contain a max of 5% bio content (ie max B5) across the USA. If the retail dispenser is labeled 6%-20% biodiesel, then it is not a Shell-branded fuel. And if it is a diesel fuel with more than 5% biodiesel content, then the dispenser must also have a label that states that it is not a Shell-branded product.

Ah, THAT explains why all the Shell stations I've been to have large "This is not a Shell product" on their D2 pumps!

 

[romad]

Ok kids...just recieved a letter from Calif Air Resources Board...
They want me to submit my 2010 Jetta TDI to ATDS (Automotive Testing and Development Services) for 3 months for evaluating the emissions
In exchange....
*Check for $1500 upon return
*Use of a fully insured & fueled vehicle of comparison with no mileage limitations
*Returned washed and vacuumed

Has anyone else done this?

I don't have an affected car but if I did and got that, I demand in addition to what they are offering: 25¢ per mile put on the car, the "comparable" car would have to get a minimum of 45mpg city on 87 octane maximum gasoline (if it wasn't a diesel), and meet or exceed the torque and hp specs of my car.

 

[dmarsingill]

This question is not directed at your car, but all cars that have the automatic engine off/on system.
What is the life cycle of the starter on these cars? I would think that using the starter 50 times a day instead of 5 times a day would wear it out within a few years. If this were the case, where would you be saving money? Yes the car uses less fuel, but that would be offset by the cost of replacing the starter.
Maybe they use extra heavy duty starters ? Just curious.

What's he going to think when it doesn't stop because he has the a/c on? I live in Atlanta....I run the a/c 9 months out of the year. It probably doesn't stop when the defrost is on, either. It uses the a/c and when it's not hot in ATL...it's raining.

Donald

 

[zagato27]

I don't have an affected car but if I did and got that, I demand in addition to what they are offering: 25¢ per mile put on the car, the "comparable" car would have to get a minimum of 45mpg city on 87 octane maximum gasoline (if it wasn't a diesel), and meet or exceed the torque and hp specs of my car.

I like your thinking. Doubt if they'd do it, but worth a try. If they didn't bite, oh well no loss.

 

[akjdouglass]

I live in Minnesota where it snows, and I wouldn't even look at a Stupid Useless Vehicle unless it had a diesel. If I don't need an SUV or even 4WD in Minnesota, why do you "need" an SUV in Florida? Sell your barely broken in TDI for peanuts then spend the price of a small house on an SUV in Florida= Insanity!

Seems there's a consensus in today's world that the addition a 5-12 pound child which may grow into a 200 pound behemoth someday, requires a 6000+ pound SUV or monster truck for transport.