Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[TDI_Rocks]

i have the TDI cup and a Golf R, embarrassed is not what id call it..love em!

 

[Keith63]

I just scheduled my appointment with my VW dealer in Tennessee for timing belt change. They have no idea what is going on and stated that all of their TDI models are still for sale and they have not placed a hold on sales of their TDI models. Additionally, the service representative stated that I was not due for a timing belt change until another 8,000 miles, but I told them that by the time I pass that 8,000 mile mark, the recall may be in place and that I didn't want my TDI flashed. The service rep replied, "As a consumer you have the right to refuse the recall." We can't perform and service on your car voluntarily of involuntarily without the permission of the customer. I am getting the service done tomorrow, 8,000 early just in case the Feds make this recall mandatory by all dealers regardless if the customer wants it or not.

 

[busdrvr]

Which should I be more concerned about, driving a clean diesel to work or the 6000 gallons of kerosene I burn in a 6 hour shift

I suppose this means its going to be hard to sell my winter wheel set and weather tech mats.

 

[Borsig]

I just scheduled my appointment with my VW dealer in Tennessee for timing belt change. They have no idea what is going on and stated that all of their TDI models are still for sale and they have not placed a hold on sales of their TDI models. Additionally, the service representative stated that I was not due for a timing belt change until another 8,000 miles, but I told them that by the time I pass that 8,000 mile mark, the recall may be in place and that I didn't want my TDI flashed. The service rep replied, "As a consumer you have the right to refuse the recall." We can't perform and service on your car voluntarily of involuntarily without the permission of the customer. I am getting the service done tomorrow, 8,000 early just in case the Feds make this recall mandatory by all dealers regardless if the customer wants it or not.

I'm pretty sure he's right. You have the right of refusal AFAIK.

The point is, will they forget, make a mistake, etc and apply the update any way by accident.

These are dealers that cant even manage to put the right oil in a TDI. Think about it.

 

[LarryMax]

DST5, Think about it a little, our government allows OPEC to offer us cheeper less quality fuel and charges us more for that cheeper junk but to make it sound like the big daddy government is here to take care of us they force the auto makers to try and get better economy out of that junk fuel... VW beat them for 6 years and for 5 0f those years I benifited with my TDI... I love it and would love to talk with the engineers that could figure this out. I would ask what else I can do to get more milage out of this little 2.0 FUN to drive car/truck/sports car

 

[busdrvr]

I'm pretty sure he's right. You have the right of refusal AFAIK.

The point is, will they forget, make a mistake, etc and apply the update any way by accident.

These are dealers that cant even manage to put the right oil in a TDI. Think about it.

When our turbo imploded I had to ask them to pull the oil pump drive shaft to see if that was he reason for the low oil pressure. A tidbit I learned from the good folks on this forum who have seen the hex shaft get rounded. The tech was sure it was sludge in the pickup. Shaft was rounded. That was the beginning of the end for our TDI.

 

[PassatSE4me]

I would like to think we as current owners will be grandfathered when it comes to the recall.

They can deal with all the unsold units but leave the rest of us alone.

 

[Loafing]

Forgive me if this solution has already been posted. How about we all promise to drive like the car on the dynamometer. Poof, problem gone... Bonus, then we could also get rid of "....your mileage may vary...."

 

[SageBrush]

This is what I got from reading the article too. SCR+LNT+EGR is the only likely option to pass Euro 6 stringent 0.129 g/mile. The U.S. Tier 2 bin 5 standard is 0.05 g/mile which is 2.6 times more stringent than the Euro 6.

There is no way that the 2009-2014 LNT only equipped VW cars will pass the EPA NOx standard. I just cannot see it happening. Only BMW has done that by using SCR/LNT/EGR combo.

I thought US is 43 grams per km and Euro 6 is 80 grams per km.

I'd never seen the US use metric distances before -- I just presumed it was miles until I finally noticed a few days ago.

 

[GTiTDi]

Here is a thought....

The TDIs greatest asset and raison d'etre is its superb fuel economy....

No matter what, EPA regulations end up being at a trade off for lower fuel economy...less power...Often times these systems end up using more fuel just to meet regulations..time and again throughout the existence of the TDI in the US...

good example: The 1996 Passat. Which had that stupid "5th injector" that shot fuel directly into the exhaust ahead of the catalytic converter, to "warm it up"

fast forward to 2009: Commonrail cars inject addtional fuel to raise exhaust temperatures in order to burn off accumulated soot in the DPF...

Is the US auto industry and the oil industry and their powerful lobbyists somehow got something to do with EPA decisions? GM, with its flop of a diesel car (the Cruze) gets fined 1.8 billion for over a hundred deaths due to faulty airbags and VW could get sued so much more?!

 

[tdibigd]

I'm no fan of the EPA on some fronts, but an ulterior motive isn't required seeing that VW served up this cluster on a silver platter. It will be interesting to hear the details as they continue to unfold.

As for the car, I like mine a lot. The only complaints I had until this news broke were ridiculously thin sheet metal and a wacky HVAC system. I bought it because I'm a bit of a nerd and like the mileage, range, and am fascinated with the technology. In other words, the stereotypical TDI driver. It's my second TDI and 3rd VW. 4th if you count one for my use in high school.

I didn't buy it primarily because it was "green". That being said, I'm not happy that it was sold as such without it being the case. Even though it wasn't a key feature for me, I still had to pay for it. The fact that I didn't get what I paid for is very disappointing. The possibility that the things I did buy it for could diminish post-"fix" will be when I become angry.

Onward!

 

[mikeyburn]

Just got off the phone with my local VW dealer and they already said there was an ECU update for my 15 golf TDi to resolve the emissions problem. Seems to have happened faster than people expected. I'm too afraid to go get the update for fear of a reduction in power. Hopefully someone else can be the guinea pig.

 

[LRTDI]

Maybe the EPA Mpg estimates will become reality......

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]

The bigger deal is if they have to detune the engine.

I paid for a 140HP car, it better stay that way.

Does the car have to meet emissions while at full throttle? I'm pretty sure no car is required or expected to do that. I don't think any portion of the EPA test involves full throttle operation, judging by the procedure posted a few days ago in this thread.

So, VW can probably adjust all the operating parameters for below full throttle operation.

The thing is, maybe they'll have to make it only 100 HP or something below 99% throttle, which might make it have strange pedal response. They can leave in the 140 HP at 100% throttle, just so you can't sue them.

In other words, it could be non-linear.

 

[dst5]

DST5, Think about it a little, our government allows OPEC to offer us cheeper less quality fuel and charges us more for that cheeper junk but to make it sound like the big daddy government is here to take care of us they force the auto makers to try and get better economy out of that junk fuel... VW beat them for 6 years and for 5 0f those years I benifited with my TDI... I love it and would love to talk with the engineers that could figure this out. I would ask what else I can do to get more milage out of this little 2.0 FUN to drive cRESuck/sports car

I don't get a relevant point from your response

 

[Mike_Van]

If there are already questions [Guardian link already cited in this thread] about latest gen. diesels (w/EU spec fuel) not being able to meet Euro 6 standards, then VW has a much bigger problem than just the EPA action.

Am I reasonable in concluding that our less than stellar D2 isn't contributing to the challenge of meeting regulations here?

 

[croppz]

Maybe the EPA Mpg estimates will become reality......

aren't their estimates 30/43 or something like that? I'd still take it,


but 45+ is kinda nice.

 

[romad]

If you live in CA, I suggest you scrap your diesel purchase altogether. I would highly suggest getting a 2016 Volt or even a 2015 Volt. We got a 2015 Volt at an $8500 discount from MSRP. We will get $1500 back from CA and $7500 tax credit. It is an amazing machine. I like it a lot, but I like my Spark EV even more.


Sent from my iPhone 8

But can a Spark (or Volt) make long distance trips cruising at 70 mph without several multi- hour recharges? Tesla at least has a network of fast chargers that cuts the recharge time down; I don't see greedy GM doing the same for the Volt. In fact that is the main reason I would not touch the Volt: it's made by GM. Who makes the Spark?

 

[csl223]

Anyone know if this is related at all to the engine computer reprogram recall issued earlier this year (in beetles at least)?

 

[GTOguy]

I just had my wife's car in for its 30,000 mile service and they told me it needed a ECM update. This was on Sept. 11th. I wonder if mine was "fixed"? Mileage and drive ability so far seem unchanged but time will tell.

 

[bhtooefr]

But can a Volt make long distance trips cruising at 70 mph without several multi- hour recharges? Tesla at least has a network of fast chargers that cuts the recharge time down; I don't see greedy GM doing the same for the Volt.

The Volt has a much more comprehensive network of fast-charging stations, that while not free, and not using renewable energy (the Superchargers use solar), are far faster than the Superchargers.

5 minutes for another 380 mi or so of range on the 2016, when a Supercharger is 20 minutes for 190 mi or so.

The downside is that you're paying 5-6 cents per mile when you use those fast-charging stations instead of plugging it in.

(Those fast charging stations are fuel stations, and you're recharging with regular unleaded.)

 

[rgiskard]

If you're embarrassed to drive something because of what the company did then I feel bad for you. Now, if you were one of the guys who created the algorithm and were part of this? Yeah I'd be embarrassed.
So many people have iPhones, including myself. But do you know how many people at FoxConn commit suicide by jumping off their factory in China? But I'm not embarrassed to have an iphone. It's sad yes, but i'm not gonna sit here and worry about being judged for having a "death phone".

Thanks for caring!
Hope you enjoy that death phone buddy!

I love my GTI and loved my TDI.
Choose whatever word suits your feelings about this...I'm not happy about it. Will it keep me from buying another VW? No, I don't think so. If the GTD doesn't come here, I'll be driving the GTI an equally long time as I did the TDI...9+ years.

 

[croppz]

But can a Volt make long distance trips cruising at 70 mph without several multi- hour recharges? Tesla at least has a network of fast chargers that cuts the recharge time down; I don't see greedy GM doing the same for the Volt. In fact that is the main reason I would not touch the Volt: it's made by GM.

Yep, if you think VW is bad, go buy a GM and get back to me.

My dad had an 04 tahoe with a plethora of electrical issues, even under warranty GM wouldnt touch it. Some days you couldnt even drive the car and at lights you had to hold it at 2k RPM just to keep it from dying. Gauges stopped working, radio turned on and off whenever it pleased.

So him and I took it to a honda dealer on a day it worked, got 11k for it and got a pilot for my mom lol. So yeah, the grass isnt always greener and I'd never touch a Volt or any dedicated electric car unless my commute was ridiculously short.

 

[VarmintSlayer]

Who would thought an algorithm could generate so much hot air.?

 

[croppz]

Thanks for caring!
Hope you enjoy that death phone buddy!
I love my GTI and loved my TDI.
Choose whatever word suits your feelings about this...I'm not happy about it. Will it keep me from buying another VW? No, I don't think so. If the GTD doesn't come here, I'll be driving the GTI an equally long time as I did the TDI...9+ years.

My whole point is it makes me laugh when people think they are being judged for driving or owning something made by a company who did something bad lol.

You have a right to be mad, I'm upset too haha. I just bought this TDi 4-5 days ago and this happens lol.

 

[ronsig]

Did this recall fix THIS problem, by any chance??
ECM Software Update REPAIR NEEDED
START DATE
Apr 07, 2015
VW ACTION CODE
23O6

 

[croppz]

Did this recall fix THIS problem, by any chance??
ECM Software Update REPAIR NEEDED
START DATE
Apr 07, 2015
VW ACTION CODE
23O6

Nope. Buddy got it done on his TDI and no change in MPG/power.


But it was said in here that it failed to fix it.

 

[bhtooefr]

It did not. That recall was the one that band-aided the problem, but didn't fix it, and CARB found that VW was still cheating even with it.

 

[romad]

Can you explain your advice for me scrapping my diesel purchase? I am getting a diesel because its fun to drive and highest mpg among the fun cars. I am not looking at any car without a manual. Fun is very important to me as it is my daily driver, and I could not imagine driving a nonfun car every day.

Buy a Mazda Miata! That was my DD/Fun from 1989 to 2008, and then became just Fun when I retired. I actually bought my TDI when my mom gave up her driver's license at age 91 and her car to my nephew.

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]