And they only admitted guilt after being threatened with 2016 Diesel vehicles certs being rejected.
Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations
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And they only admitted guilt after being threatened with 2016 Diesel vehicles certs being rejected.
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
They are not playing chess here...an admission of guilt is an admission of guilt.And they only admitted guilt after being threatened with 2016 Diesel vehicles certs being rejected.
jph28
Active member
And they only admitted guilt after being threatened with 2016 Diesel vehicles certs being rejected.
Well the 2016 TDIs are all still at the port... So perhaps they're rejected after all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Look at the internet lawyers here.
If the revised MPG goes below advertised, there will most likely be a per mile compensation pay out. Look up the Hyundai MPG ordeal. They are stuck issuing gift cards for life for original owners.
If the revised MPG goes below advertised, there will most likely be a per mile compensation pay out. Look up the Hyundai MPG ordeal. They are stuck issuing gift cards for life for original owners.
Agreed. My jab was more at VW, than the EPA. If they hadn't threatened the revocation, VW would have, most likely, just said "We'll look into it and issue a service bulletin."
umrpunter
Veteran Member
lets see. Cam issues......hpfp issues.........general lack of concern when the customer has issues......yep I don't feel bad for VW at all.
Seems like a train loaded full up with years of bad karma coming home with a full head of steam
Seems like a train loaded full up with years of bad karma coming home with a full head of steam
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
With the small amount of cars VW sells in the U.S., it may come to them eventually dropping diesel sales here rather than dealing with meeting emissions rules in the future. If that happens, I wonder what will happen to the Canadian market?
When you think about this situation, it's no wonder other foreign car makers decide to not introduce a diesel in the U.S. in the last few years after hinting about it.
When you think about this situation, it's no wonder other foreign car makers decide to not introduce a diesel in the U.S. in the last few years after hinting about it.
15 A3 TDI
Active member
so can we force a buyback?
Well I heard about this almost simultaneously from (a) my daughter in college, and (b) my friend who works for the EPA.
I see some folks talking about engineers and ethics. Coincidentally, last night, at back-to-school night for parents at my son's high school, I asked my son's AP Biology teacher if he will be discussing ethics & science in class. I was glad when he answered that ethics will actually be the focus of the class, after the AP exam in May.
I see some folks talking about engineers and ethics. Coincidentally, last night, at back-to-school night for parents at my son's high school, I asked my son's AP Biology teacher if he will be discussing ethics & science in class. I was glad when he answered that ethics will actually be the focus of the class, after the AP exam in May.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Please! Americans have been defeating their own emissions systems themselves for as long as they have been required and to far dirtier limits than this probably did. Go look at the performance forum here and you tube videos of cars and trucks "rolling coal" where owners do the same thing. Many other mfg's have done other things as well. I just read about trucking companies buying new chassis and putting old rebuilt engines/drive trains/axles in them to get around emissions. VW is just the latest to get caught doing something wrong.
Borsig
Vendor , w/Business number
If we have to take our TDI in for service can we refuse any recall/ updates? after all it IS our vehicle. If I have a warranty (I also have service to 30K) i do NOT want them touching emissions on my 2015 Golf.
IFRCFI
Veteran Member
Maybe this will spill over and finally put an end to ECU tunes, straight pipes, and other "off road" upgrades to defeat emissions controls.
VeeDubTDI
Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
A quick recalculation shows nearly $20 billion worth of potential fines. $37,500 per vehicle plus another $3,750 per vehicle times 482,000 vehicles. That doesn't even include the cost of bringing all of the existing vehicles into compliance.
compu_85
Gadget Guy
A friend of mine just noticed VWoA just pulled all the TDI Advertizing and related videos off of their Youtube page
-J
-J
would be cheaper for them, than the fine, i doubt any diesel originally cost more than the fine. maybe give us the options, lol
Best case scenario is a class action lawsuit if MPG decreases below advertised.
Transferox
Member
Lawyer here.
If, as was the case in my experience, the salesmen at the dealership boasted about the fact that these cars regularly exceed the EPA estimates -- "It'll do better than a Prius on the highway" -- then you could very well have a case.
The fact that this will likely affect the re-sale value of these cars is probably a strong enough basis for a suit. The reputation of how these cars perform in practice, above and beyond the EPA estimates, arguably is a huge part of their appeal, new and used.
If the recall affects the longevity of the engines -- another much boasted-about characteristic of the cars -- then that adds to the case, too.
Volkswagen, it seems, sold these cars knowing that they were not actually compliant with regulations, and knowing also that if they were made to be compliant, they would perform worse and possibly even be less reliable long term. That's a major, major problem for Volkswagen, from the standpoint of getting fined by the government, and also from the standpoint of getting the business end of a class action lawsuit.
I should make clear, when I say "you might have a case," I'm talking about getting damages in a class action lawsuit. I don't think there's likely to be grounds for a buyback. That would require something a lot more egregious than this.
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For federal emissions related recalls? Doubt it. The controlling device would be the inability to renew your registration.
VeeDubTDI
Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Buying a vehicle back does not absolve them of fines. The buy-back (or repairs) would be in addition to any fines levied.
Internet forum not the place for legal analysis or advice, and I'm not a litigator (although I do supervise outside litigation counsel in lawsuits relating to my field of expertise which has nothing to do with what we're talking about), so I"m not going to discuss further what legal rights we owners might have against VW.
In any event, and not to be lawyerly about it, this basically sucks.
In any event, and not to be lawyerly about it, this basically sucks.
All good points. I agree that a buyback is highly unlikely.
Borsig
Vendor , w/Business number
Not likely. Id say prove it. I will not accept any "repairs" willingly that reduce my economy. I will simply avoid the dealer id they are forcing it. Otherwise ill jusr sell my 2015 and find an attorney to sue them
davidlp
Veteran Member
I've been driving gas and diesel VWs from the late 70s, and all have exceeded EPA highway in everyday driving. So, me thinks they've always been conservative, and I don't think they've been cheating for decades.
Yes, I made the decision for my 2015 GSW TDI based on real-world mileage being much higher than ratings. I was almost going to jump ship (non TDI, non VW) for my new car, especially with concerns about some extremely expensive TDI repairs reported in recent years, but the allure of 50+mpg kept me in the family. I'd be real pissed if that changed due to reprogramming, and would seek compensation for that and loss of resale value.
The emissions standards are so far out there, that 40x nothing is still nothing. The feds have made ridiculously high standards more for advancing an agenda than protecting us. That doesn't exonerate possible cheating, but I really don't give a rat's ass if my car emits 40x what the EPA likes. Many on this forum make modifications which worsen emissions, so whining of that nature rings a little hollow.
Yes, I made the decision for my 2015 GSW TDI based on real-world mileage being much higher than ratings. I was almost going to jump ship (non TDI, non VW) for my new car, especially with concerns about some extremely expensive TDI repairs reported in recent years, but the allure of 50+mpg kept me in the family. I'd be real pissed if that changed due to reprogramming, and would seek compensation for that and loss of resale value.
The emissions standards are so far out there, that 40x nothing is still nothing. The feds have made ridiculously high standards more for advancing an agenda than protecting us. That doesn't exonerate possible cheating, but I really don't give a rat's ass if my car emits 40x what the EPA likes. Many on this forum make modifications which worsen emissions, so whining of that nature rings a little hollow.
VeeDubTDI
Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
They. Admitted. To. It.
Why they did it is another story that I'm dying to hear.
Why they did it is another story that I'm dying to hear.
Shaeet
Well-known member
Hrmm...methinks it will go something like this:
Joins in on class-action lawsuit that will likely result from these findings.....
Gets money from lawsuit
Purchases DPF delete & stage 2 upgrade for car with said money
Profits!
On a serious note, I highly disagree with anyone saying our cars just instantly depreciated $1000+ due to this. I wouldn't be surprised if VW stopped selling diesels entirely after this which IMVHO would make our cars MUCH more desirable on the used market, particularly to enthusiasts like ourselves.
I'm wondering what kind of lawsuits will arise from this. In my mind, an ECU flash will definitely decrease our cars MPG's which would also mean the advertised EPA fuel econ ratings were false and we could be reimbursed a certain amount just like the Kia/Hyundai lawsuit a couple years back.
Joins in on class-action lawsuit that will likely result from these findings.....
Gets money from lawsuit
Purchases DPF delete & stage 2 upgrade for car with said money
Profits!
On a serious note, I highly disagree with anyone saying our cars just instantly depreciated $1000+ due to this. I wouldn't be surprised if VW stopped selling diesels entirely after this which IMVHO would make our cars MUCH more desirable on the used market, particularly to enthusiasts like ourselves.
I'm wondering what kind of lawsuits will arise from this. In my mind, an ECU flash will definitely decrease our cars MPG's which would also mean the advertised EPA fuel econ ratings were false and we could be reimbursed a certain amount just like the Kia/Hyundai lawsuit a couple years back.
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