Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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bobgolf2004

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Location
Madison, Wisconsin USA
TDI
2018 Camry Hybrid LE
So, today I plug in my VIN at: https://www.vwdieselinfo.com/, and get this:




Your vehicle is affected


Our records indicate that your 2015 VW PASSAT TDI SE 2.0L MANUAL GENERATION 3 is affected by the 2.0L TDI emissions issue. While a remedy is not yet available, Volkswagen is committed to finding one as soon as possible. We anticipate that there will be different remedies for affected vehicles based upon the generation of the diesel engine. We would like to emphasize that the EPA has noted that vehicles affected by this issue are legal and safe to drive.
In order to keep you updated with the latest information about your vehicle and to update our internal records, we request that you provide your contact information in the fields below.
 

haunruh

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2012
Location
White Rock BC Canada
TDI
2011 GOLF TDI/DSG Wagon
Here in Canada, at this site .. http://www.vwemissionsinfo.ca/vin-lookup/

Got this response:
We regret to inform you that your Volkswagen is one of the vehicles with discrepancies in its engine software. We are truly sorry for this situation and are working quickly with regulatory authorities to identify how to remedy this condition.

You do not need to take any action at this time and will be contacted as soon as we have more information to share. In the meantime, please note Environment Canada has verified that the safety of your vehicle is not impacted, only its emissions are affected. You can absolutely continue to drive your vehicle while we work to develop a remedy.

Please know you are a deeply valued Volkswagen owner and we are committed to earning your continued trust.

In order to keep you updated on news and information, please provide us with your contact information by filling out the form below.

For further information you can contact Volkswagen Customer Care at 1-800-822-8987.
 

disco biscuit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
I would like to say I will get in on the lawsuit. I have always wanted a TDI and quite frankly, didnt care if it was clean or not. I do feel volkswagen fraudulantly represented their car (2010 tdi jetta, in my case). I cant imagine people wanting to settle for anything less than a buy back.

I feel my purchase was made under fradulent circumstances and demand a refund.

I also feel through my somewhat limited but well read mechanic ability. I did choose volkswagen for its performance and ablity to do so without urea. I also believe. Recal short of gigantic design change, will not function properly with a DPF lacking a urea injection or at at least a seperate diesel injector into the DPF...but not with a extra fuel injection event through my motor causing cylinder wash. I would like to hear more on this point. I can tell tou now my law influence says do not cooperate with any recall event. Do not settle.

Another factor in this decision to not settle for less than buy back...I didnt buy a car to be red flagged by the EPA. I dont care what political beliefs may be involved. Now im stuck with a giant red flag threat at every inspection and as i said before i never cared about the clean part so much. I work in texas where the measure oil spewing into the air by hourly increments. But I'll be dipped if i face extra scrutiny every time i go through an already painful inspection to get back in forth to work...but expected to endure escalated scrutiny because some company lied and cheated their way to a UREA free DPF system to up their ratings....lol. Not me man. Thats why justice exists...sometimes government period...to prevent fraud.
 

S2000_guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Location
ohio
TDI
2014 Sportwagen TDI
...
No word about requiring this recall, beyond states (IE: California) and Providences that already require open recalls for registration renewal. Not sure EPA even has the authority to require or compel the work to be done on a national level.

Jason
Currently, there is no authority to require the recall in many states. The EPA itself issued a statement to that effect.

However: auto registration, the speed limit, the drinking age, and the legal limit for intoxicated driving are all controlled by the states. Yet we have uniformity on the last three. How, you might ask? The Federal government threatened to withhold highway funds from states who didn't bend to their will. It could happen again with registration...or not.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
I would like to say I will get in on the lawsuit. I have always wanted a TDI and quite frankly, didnt care if it was clean or not. I do feel volkswagen fraudulantly represented their car (2010 tdi jetta, in my case). I cant imagine people wanting to settle for anything less than a buy back.
I feel my purchase was made under fradulent circumstances and demand a refund.
I also feel through my somewhat limited but well read mechanic ability. I did choose volkswagen for its performance and ablity to do so without urea. I also believe. Recal short of gigantic design change, will not function properly with a DPF lacking a urea injection or at at least a seperate diesel injector into the DPF...but not with a extra fuel injection event through my motor causing cylinder wash. I would like to hear more on this point. I can tell tou now my law influence says do not cooperate with any recall event. Do not settle.
Another factor in this decision to not settle for less than buy back...I didnt buy a car to be red flagged by the EPA. I dont care what political beliefs may be involved. Now im stuck with a giant red flag threat at every inspection and as i said before i never cared about the clean part so much. I work in texas where the measure oil spewing into the air by hourly increments. But I'll be dipped if i face extra scrutiny every time i go through an already painful inspection to get back in forth to work...but expected to endure escalated scrutiny because some company lied and cheated their way to a UREA free DPF system to up their ratings....lol. Not me man. Thats why justice exists...sometimes government period...to prevent fraud.
This is so absurd it isn't even funny. This has nothing to do with the dpf and/or injectors or post combustion diesel injection events. Urea or anything else is never injected into the dpf anyway. Texas has no diesel emissions inspection so I don't know what the heck you are talking about there. If all the lights and brakes and safety stuff works it passes. Maybe you should join one of the class action suits as you don't have a clue what is going on here.
 

disco biscuit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
I believe our current DPF system will not handle the necessary programming changes to bring it up to reauired standards. I also believe this is why they cheated. Are you suggesting they did it just to see if they could? Why is it everytime ive posted on this forum you in particular have jumped in and trolled a legitamate point in an insulting, dismissive manner. I personally believe any ild recall reflash the company would offer up would result in mechanical insufficiencies down the road. What evidence do you have otherwise. Maybe you should share with them because they seem to be scratching their head. No doubt the industry wondered how these car get by without urea or different DPFs...admittedly volkswagen intentionally decieved all of us, thats how. And you intend to stand here in defence of admitted fraud. What say you troll of all trolls?
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
On your car, there's two systems that are nearly independent here.

There's the DPF, which just deals with particulates - DPF is short for diesel particulate filter.

There's the LNT, which just deals with NOx - LNT is short for lean NOx trap.

The DPF is not in question, just the LNT.

Newer vehicles use SCR, or selective catalytic reduction, instead of (for VW) or in addition to (for new BMWs) LNT.

The only cars in question that have both SCR and DPF as the same part are the 2015+s:

 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
I believe our current DPF system will not handle the necessary programming changes to bring it up to reauired standards.
Our DPFs work perfectly, they require NO changes in programming, performance or regenerations. The problem with our car's emissions is how they handle Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). This happens AFTER the DPF and it is unrelated to post combustion fuel injections. There is a NOx storage catalyst (LNT) after the DPF and this is the part that is not doing its job. This is the part of the emissions system that must be altered or replaced. This has absolutely nothing to do with the DPF or its functioning. Our cars have a complex emissions system which you do not fully understand. With the possible exception of the 2009 model year, the fix should be relatively straight forward and it might even improve mileage and/or power - we just do not know and we will not know for months. Relax and learn - it will take some time before we know what will happen.

Have Fun!

Don
 
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disco biscuit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
Well thats a reply. As stated in my post i would like to here more in that area described above. Obnoxious name calling and dismissing a legitimate point is nonsensical and troll like.

However the point still remains. It puts out a illegal amount of Nox. The mechanical means to achieve the goal of becoming legal. Is still an issue. How much do they have to modify. Switch the lnt system, reprogram them we all wait and see if something fails. That point is still solid. At what point to i become uncomfortable and ay no that doesnt satisfy my concerns well enough as being an unproven spur if the moment fix. If you dont have time to fix it right the first time, just imagine how much time you'll have when you fix it again...? The mechanical fix is very much in question...meanwhile im stuck with it until yall figure it out. God forbid i need to get rid of it tomorrow.

So it still dont answer a car sold under intentional, admitted fradulent circumstance and the EPA search me flag we dont know the impact of. Even though troll there suggests otherwise they do more rigid inspections based on county in Texas. Houston is very close to me and they sniff.
If they do require a recall at some point to get inspection or reg. i'm stuck with whatever mechanical they decide. Which may be insufficient.
 
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JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
However the point still remains. It puts out a illegal amount of Nox. The mechanical means to achieve the goal of becoming legal. Is still an issue. How much do they have to modify.
The way to fix it is well known. Mercedes, BMW, and VW already do it. They will have to replace the LNT with an SCR system (with adblue injection). This will mean replacing one part (the LNT) with a different one and adding a tank, lines, and a wiring harness, etc. plus a new ECU program to control all of this hardware. For Passats and 2015 VWs all they will have to do is to update the programming to inject more DEF (adblue).

So it still dont answer a car sold under intentional, admitted fradulent circumstance and the EPA search me flag we dont know the impact of. Even though troll there suggests otherwise they do more rigid inspections based on county in Texas. Houston is very close to me and they sniff
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't want to be one. I intend to keep driving and let VW figure out what is going to happen. My car is just fine the way it is and I am in no hurry for VW to change anything.
As for your testing - what do they "sniff" for? - I seriously doubt if it is NOx concentration. In most states it is just soot and our DPFs take care of that just fine. I wouldn't worry.

Have Fun!

Don
 
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tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Well thats a reply. As stated in my post i would like to here more in that area described above. Obnoxious name calling and dismissing a legitimate point is nonsensical and troll like.

However the point still remains. It puts out a illegal amount of Nox. The mechanical means to achieve the goal of becoming legal. Is still an issue. How much do they have to modify. Switch the lnt system, reprogram them we all wait and see if something fails. That point is still solid. At what point to i become uncomfortable and ay no that doesnt satisfy my concerns well enough as being an unproven spur if the moment fix. If you dont have time to fix it right the first time, just imagine how much time you'll have when you fix it again...? The mechanical fix is very much in question...meanwhile im stuck with it until yall figure it out. God forbid i need to get rid of it tomorrow.

So it still dont answer a car sold under intentional, admitted fradulent circumstance and the EPA search me flag we dont know the impact of. Even though troll there suggests otherwise they do more rigid inspections based on county in Texas. Houston is very close to me and they sniff.
If they do require a recall at some point to get inspection or reg. i'm stuck with whatever mechanical they decide. Which may be insufficient.
I'm in Dallas, and we have the same testing as Houston, and they don't check anything on diesel, only gasoline engines. I think you are incorrectly assuming that gasoline and diesel testing is the same in TX, which it is not. Gasoline engines are only tested in some urban counties. Diesels are not exhaust tested anywhere in TX - it'sa $7 safety inspection, and good to go.

- Tim
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
I believe our current DPF system will not handle the necessary programming changes to bring it up to reauired standards. I also believe this is why they cheated. Are you suggesting they did it just to see if they could? Why is it everytime ive posted on this forum you in particular have jumped in and trolled a legitamate point in an insulting, dismissive manner. I personally believe any ild recall reflash the company would offer up would result in mechanical insufficiencies down the road. What evidence do you have otherwise. Maybe you should share with them because they seem to be scratching their head. No doubt the industry wondered how these car get by without urea or different DPFs...admittedly volkswagen intentionally decieved all of us, thats how. And you intend to stand here in defence of admitted fraud. What say you troll of all trolls?
You made no legitimate points at all. I never name called you anything I just called you out on all the things you really didn't have a clue on. Sorry if you were off base multiple times and I happened to be the one to correct you. As you see from the other posts you were completely off base on everything you posted. Nothing to do with the dpf or diesel injections and Texas has never had diesel emission testing anywhere in the state ever. You really need to go back and read the first post and see what this is all about. I am also not defending VW for anything. They will be punished as the law sees fit, no matter what any of us think. Now have a good day!
 

disco biscuit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
More points well made made. The statement made of sniffing in those counties are personal testiments of people in that county. Now that i think all gas motors and didnt realize it matters. I dont live there so point well taken.

The concern with the INT system, which i barely googled since inlast commented is as well, duely noted. Hiwever i refuse to accept the different systems run on our completely seperate engine and specific DPF with reset parameters, because I'm not a guinea pig. Simply put. It would have to be a more detailed free maintenace kinda thing because, I with alot of other consumers would be very aggrivated if forced into a one time fix/recall scenario with 110k miles on the clock. The. The DPF or egr messes up afterwards and supposed to just guess whether exhaust changes had anything to do with it. No sir everyday recalls dont have criminal intent to decieve a consumer attached to it. And again I'll be dipped if i just eat whatever cost or inconvieniece it has on me.

I also love my jetta and can think of nothing worst than trying to replace it, my wife feels the same. But the deal better make sense to me. This car second hand cost me 22k and was a hell of a deal when i got it. But again I'll be dipped if we settle for whatever recall they decide and we eat the resale value. Which could be 10k dollars lost right now out of my pocket.
My car is now tied up in a legal dispute. This is an active investment in my life which is also required for changing work situations. Its a severe inconvienience to say the least. And i still wouldnt accept the modifications you describe withou dealer back ip or very extended monitoring. How do i continue my plans mechanically seperate from the dealer plans during this time. Its my car. What i demand mechanically down the road for modifications sets up a stuation for dealer intrusion into my life i dont want. Thats why im a member here, i work on my owm crap because i have to. If i thougt the dealer was better than my own mechanics i might pay for it.
 

tdibigd

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Location
Dallas, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE w/DSG, black on black
I believe our current DPF system will not handle the necessary programming changes to bring it up to reauired standards. I also believe this is why they cheated. Are you suggesting they did it just to see if they could? Why is it everytime ive posted on this forum you in particular have jumped in and trolled a legitamate point in an insulting, dismissive manner. I personally believe any ild recall reflash the company would offer up would result in mechanical insufficiencies down the road. What evidence do you have otherwise. Maybe you should share with them because they seem to be scratching their head. No doubt the industry wondered how these car get by without urea or different DPFs...admittedly volkswagen intentionally decieved all of us, thats how. And you intend to stand here in defence of admitted fraud. What say you troll of all trolls?
Dude, no one has any damages. What you personally believe or predict might happen is of no consequence in that respect. If and when it does, then there may be something to talk about. Are you willing to pay $300/hr for this legal counsel of which you speak?

Man, lots of people here have suddenly found environmental religion because there could be a gift card in their future. FFS.
 

disco biscuit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
@lightflyer. Hey man hostility in displayed in rudeness to one point in my original post coincides to other post made towards me after commentin in fuel additive forum. As always i conceded perfect mechanical knowledge in the question i posted about the fix and my right to understand its mechanical effects. I said i would like to hear more about this point.

The other two points you insultingly dismiss my rights as a consumer to intentional decptive fraud. And the incresed scrutiny at inspections.

On the last.. Alhough they dont sniff in Jefferson county. My stickers are due by 12/15 and the first thing my inspection guy asks about is the lAwsuit. So you expect to believe next time i go if i put a different muffler on he wont say "oh you modified the jetta"...this is scrutiny my coal rolling cummings driving buddies just skip on through. Im supposed to just eat it. That aint what i bought
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
I don't expect you to believe anything as you don't even know what is happening and I can barely understand your posts. If you bother to read the first post and try and understand what is actually happening here it may do you some good. Pursue what you want to any degree you want. I am not being hostile when I say you don't even have the facts straight yet. I haven't dismissed your rights as a consumer and if I did it wouldn't matter anyway as that is between you, your lawyer and VW. It still remains that all of the "points" you made were incorrect or totally off base.
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
The entitlement mentality is strong with the disco biscuit. Dude... You've been driving a car for 5 or 6 years and you think you're entitled to a buy back???? What the hell is in those biscuits?

Instead of researching which law firm is going to drain your bank account in a futile attempt to sue VW, why don't you take the time to educate yourself on how your car works. You clearly have very little knowledge of a system that has you claiming to hire lawyers over.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The entitlement mentality is strong with the disco biscuit. Dude... You've been driving a car for 5 or 6 years and you think you're entitled to a buy back???? What the hell is in those biscuits?

Instead of researching which law firm is going to drain your bank account in a futile attempt to sue VW, why don't you take the time to educate yourself on how your car works. You clearly have very little knowledge of a system that has you claiming to hire lawyers over.

Truth.
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
I would tend to agree with OH.

Reference to the "entitlement mentality" gets a BZ from this sailor.......even tho' I damn near spilled morning coffee on my new Mac upon reading those words.



ez
 

Vidgamer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2011
Location
Atlanta, Ga
TDI
2011 Golf TDI (turned in)
...
The other two points you insultingly dismiss my rights as a consumer to intentional decptive fraud. And the incresed scrutiny at inspections.
On the last.. Alhough they dont sniff in Jefferson county. My stickers are due by 12/15 and the first thing my inspection guy asks about is the lAwsuit. So you expect to believe next time i go if i put a different muffler on he wont say "oh you modified the jetta"...this is scrutiny my coal rolling cummings driving buddies just skip on through. Im supposed to just eat it. That aint what i bought
Wait a second, just because your buddies cheat doesn't mean you get to. Didn't we all learn that at a young age ? Just because someone else does it, doesn't make it right.

About your earlier point about if you need to sell the car, yes, that's a problem. Once this period of uncertainty is over, I wuld expect that to fix itself. Yeah, I'd even say that VW should "buy back" at fair values... as in treat it as a normal trade in. But they probably can't do that for everyone right now. Once they have the fix and people become more comfortable with things, then you are free to trade-in I mean buy-back your car at a fair price.

The rumored gift card with some money sounds like it should make up for some of the general inconvenience and then some. Unless you just have to get out of the car in the next few months, I think most of us can just wait this out.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Wondering how much NOX gets kicked out by all those wood stoves we use....Mine's cranking right now....
Time to get a new stove, any "smoke" you see coming out is wasted energy. Look up "gasification" stoves lowest emissions possible. Only thing coming out of my Tarm is condensation.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
I also love my jetta and can think of nothing worst than trying to replace it, my wife feels the same. But the deal better make sense to me. This car second hand cost me 22k and was a hell of a deal when i got it. But again I'll be dipped if we settle for whatever recall they decide and we eat the resale value. Which could be 10k dollars lost right now out of my pocket.
My car is now tied up in a legal dispute. This is an active investment in my life which is also required for changing work situations.
22k was MSRP for a 2010, even loaded it barely topped 25k, list price, nobody pays that. You also can't be out 10k, because it wasn't worth more than about 12k pre-recall with the 110k miles you said were on it. It's also not tied up in any legal dispute, they are able to be bought and sold without issue, the EPA letter even states this, as well as more than 15 2010s for sale in your area right now. Checking the price history on several of these listings show little to no change in price over the last month.

If you are investing in cars, picking a mass produced, less than 5 year old car was a mistake, it's not an investment, it's going to lose money.
 

maybe368

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Location
Phoenix
TDI
Happily none

You bought your cr car after this all broke, right? If so. you are one of the few here that bought your car with all the facts. You have no case, in my opinion, and your attitude about the problem is justified. I bought mine 1.5 years ago, 10350 miles and it is still a pretty new car. I bought mine without all of the material facts and there was no way that due diligence on my part was going to find the malware that was flashed into the ecu, I assume that is where the programming took place. I feel cheated, you do not and that is understandable. I would not have bought this car if all of the facts had been disclosed, in fact, in AZ it is illegal to not disclose known problems on a USED CAR, let alone a new car.

Y'all may not think that whiner or sniveler is name calling, but it is. Also. there is no out of pocket cost to the client if a lawyer is willing to take the case on a contingency basis. And yes, 40% is high, but it gives them incentive to collect more. I don't want a profit, I want to be made whole, that is all. If anybody wants to buy my car, the price is what I paid for it and if VW is found liable, they will pay treble damages in AZ. That will make me whole at 60% of the damages awarded. None of this might happen, but it isn't costing me a thing to find out...Mark
 
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autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
The other two points you insultingly dismiss my rights as a consumer to intentional decptive fraud. And the incresed scrutiny at inspections.
Since you don't understand how Texas inspections work, read and learn
https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/VI/inspection/inspectionCriteria.aspx

The only emissions inspection is plugging in an OBDII and checking readiness of the computer.

The only exhaust inspection is verifying there is a muffler in place.

The inspector can only fail for one of the two items listed here. They aren't wasting their time on a witch hunt.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
This has nothing to do with when I bought my car, and I most likely would have modified it anyways as I have done with all my TDIs.

And in case you are wondering, I just bought another one. :D
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
Spoke with a VW dealer yesterday. They said they CAN sell 2009-2015 TDI's on the lot. They just can't sell any new 2016's.
Does that make sense?
Always could, EPA letter even said as much. VW voluntarily stopped selling them, but other dealers have continued to sell them over the last month.
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
All this BS about being "made whole" reminds me of the golf match between Judge Smails and Al Cervik at the end of Caddyshack. A bunch of sleezeballs trying to hustle a buck they don't deserve.

It was funny in the movie. It just looks kind of pathetic here.
 

maybe368

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Location
Phoenix
TDI
Happily none
All this BS about being "made whole" reminds me of the golf match between Judge Smails and Al Cervik at the end of Caddyshack. A bunch of sleezeballs trying to hustle a buck they don't deserve.

It was funny in the movie. It just looks kind of pathetic here.
If you are ok with fraud, that is your business, I am not.If you think that it is about making money, again you are wrong. I am in a position to not have to worry about that, so it is not about money. This is about being cheated, I don't like it, if you do, that is your business...Mark
 
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