Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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Jeta Life

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New Jersey is also tough on emissions, that would be really messed up.
This NOX problem won't even affect many TDI owners in emissions free states.



The thing is these cars have nothing mechanically wrong. If I lived in one of those worry free states I am enjoying my tuned TDI, tuned by VW acting as Malone.


The bigger question is obviously the attack on diesels and the EPAs agendas in doing so. Being VW won 2009 Green Car of the Year (which has been taken away) I wonder if France and England's stance against diesels contributes to this.
Stranger still that "the fix" was possible with AdBlue or BlueTec and now all this. These diesels were well intended but now that this bad publicity is out there WHO is going to buy diesels ? Damage done.



Perfecting SCR might even be in the works, who knows. One mad scientist in one lab comes out with one new catalyst and we're all looking like panicking idiots with no technical skill. These masters are trying to accomplish this perfection of SCR, maybe they will prove everybody wrong and get the the last laugh.


I would not be surprised if diesel technology is perfected. VW is capable of it, would not write them off yet. Time is their worst enemy, and our impatience. Funny how when I vacation in Europe my cousins always say "take it easy" and "slow down" because us Americans are crazy clicking these wild smartphones with reckless thumbs.
We don't know everything...yet...time will tell. How long can VW write the checks to the dealers to keep them afloat and how long can they withstand profit losses are bigger questions. I have no doubt VW could work this out if given time, big question is if they are entitled to time.

Their actions over 7 years have baffled me through engine changes and giving SCR to some and not to others. The technology is out there, Audi and Porsche use it, Benz does too, will they give it to us economy shoppers in cheap VWs ? Sure turn my VW into an Audi or Porsche by all means.


Diesel is a religion in Germany.
 

JDenyer232

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New Jersey is also tough on emissions, that would be really messed up.
This NOX problem won't even affect many TDI owners in emissions free states.



The thing is these cars have nothing mechanically wrong. If I lived in one of those worry free states I am enjoying my tuned TDI, tuned by VW acting as Malone.


The bigger question is obviously the attack on diesels and the EPAs agendas in doing so. Being VW won 2009 Green Car of the Year (which has been taken away) I wonder if France and England's stance against diesels contributes to this.
Stranger still that "the fix" was possible with AdBlue or BlueTec and now all this. These diesels were well intended but now that this bad publicity is out there WHO is going to buy diesels ? Damage done.



Perfecting SCR might even be in the works, who knows. One mad scientist in one lab comes out with one new catalyst and we're all looking like panicking idiots with no technical skill. These masters are trying to accomplish this perfection of SCR, maybe they will prove everybody wrong and get the the last laugh.


I would not be surprised if diesel technology is perfected. VW is capable of it, would not write them off yet. Time is their worst enemy, and our impatience. Funny how when I vacation in Europe my cousins always say "take it easy" and "slow down" because us Americans are crazy clicking these wild smartphones with reckless thumbs.
We don't know everything...yet...time will tell. How long can VW write the checks to the dealers to keep them afloat and how long can they withstand profit losses are bigger questions. I have no doubt VW could work this out if given time, big question is if they are entitled to time.

Their actions over 7 years have baffled me through engine changes and giving SCR to some and not to others. The technology is out there, Audi and Porsche use it, Benz does too, will they give it to us economy shoppers in cheap VWs ? Sure turn my VW into an Audi or Porsche by all means.


Diesel is a religion in Germany.
I don't think that the EPA is anti diesel. The standard is applied to all vehicles regardless of fuel type. Now the argument could be made that the standard is to tough, and that may be true but that's a different subject.
 

Jeta Life

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I don't think that the EPA is anti diesel. The standard is applied to all vehicles regardless of fuel type. Now the argument could be made that the standard is to tough, and that may be true but that's a different subject.
Audi, Porsche and Mercedes Benz are able to meet the tougher standard according to my understanding of this puzzle.
Leaving out the technology only as a result of the added expense has resulted in a backwards backtracking now by VW.
I have no doubt those luxury beasts can accomplish the EPA high standards but my inquiry would be directed to VW. Omitting such a critical component is against German standards for quality.
Diesels in fact are legendary in Europe, especially the Benz models from the late eighties to 90s that cabbies in my country call "tractors" because they can withstand amazing amounts of abuse and go over 1,000,000 miles no problem with the amazing German diesel technology.
 

Jeta Life

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Video of Mercedes Diesel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOenDrFIj8Y

This diesel is one of the toughest. The VW ALHs are also becoming legendary

The Car and Driver editor did an awesome job and evoked a lot of nostalgia of diesels in the nice piece.

Beautiful autumn background happens to be a coincidence.

It reminded me of simpler times in the 80s with the TurboDiesel

Reminded me of one of the VW salesman who said these diesels are tough
 

jfc2697

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Put my VIN into VW's check your VIN application and it says my 2015 Passat TDI is not affected. Anyone else check their car?

Since I bought the car in May 2015, I assume it had the earlier emissions software update.

Vehicle is not affected


Based on our records, your vehicle is not affected by the 2.0L TDI emissions issue.
I checked mine it was affected and i got my golf in July 2015. Then had fill out some info for updates
 

Philpug

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Gone but not forgotten
There was a strong rumor that we were going to see a program from VW this going week, I am surprised there has not been a leak of it.
 
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Audi, Porsche and Mercedes Benz are able to meet the tougher standard according to my understanding of this puzzle.
Leaving out the technology only as a result of the added expense has resulted in a backwards backtracking now by VW.
I have no doubt those luxury beasts can accomplish the EPA high standards but my inquiry would be directed to VW. Omitting such a critical component is against German standards for quality.
Diesels in fact are legendary in Europe, especially the Benz models from the late eighties to 90s that cabbies in my country call "tractors" because they can withstand amazing amounts of abuse and go over 1,000,000 miles no problem with the amazing German diesel technology.

Audi and Porsche ARE under the VW corporate umbrella. In fact several of the fired conspirators held positions at Porsche and Audi

Don't forget GM, Fiat-Creysler, and Ford. They all have small EPA compliant vehicles in the US market in various passenger cars and light trucks / vans / and SUVs.
 

TDILeo

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOenDrFIj8Y
This diesel is one of the toughest. The VW ALHs are also becoming legendary
The Car and Driver editor did an awesome job and evoked a lot of nostalgia of diesels in the nice piece.
Beautiful autumn background happens to be a coincidence.
It reminded me of simpler times in the 80s with the TurboDiesel
Reminded me of one of the VW salesman who said these diesels are tough
Nice video. And in my state too! A neighbor who lives around the corner from me drives one of these. His is a couple years newer and blue gray in color and super clean. It's a long car as well. That car will never die.
 

jimbo1mcm

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Had my 83 240D stick for over 30 years. Started every time. I could beat anyone off a traffic light for the first 8 feet, then it was over. Now my grandkids have it. First of many diesel MB's I've had. I miss them a little, but very happy with the TDI's.
 

Jeta Life

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Nice video. And in my state too! A neighbor who lives around the corner from me drives one of these. His is a couple years newer and blue gray in color and super clean. It's a long car as well. That car will never die.
Thanks, many cabbies in my country use them to this day. My cousin who is a cook (cooked in Sarajevo 1984) has one too.

There's a certain feeling you get from torque that can't be described, maybe "connected" or "power".
 

Jeta Life

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After all this drama with CR TDIs it almost makes sense to go for an older model diesel, I was close to many times.

Keep me away from Autotrader because when I see these old Benz diesels I would almost go to any lot in America to trade in from a $5000 2009 TDI to an older ALH or Benz Turbo Diesel.

Those older diesels are tougher and will probably outlast the CRs.
 

iamatt

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Yep they are ramming more stuff into the cars in the coming years that make me happy I have the cars I have now. My CR just snapped off a 55 mpg trip yesterday. NOx be dammed.

51MPG with 5 people and a turkey roaster in the back. F*ck NOx :cool:
 

Shife

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I know this has been mentioned previously, but I think it bears a reminder. Nitrous Oxide =! NOx. Below is a breakdown of NOx sources in the New England area. Nitrous Oxide is what dentists use and what street racers use to give their cars a sudden boost on a straight stretch.

http://www3.epa.gov/region1/airquality/nox.html

Jebus.... not this again...

NO, NOx, and NO2 are three different things, and only one of them is Nitrous Oxide.
 

romad

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I know this has been mentioned previously, but I think it bears a reminder. Nitrous Oxide =! NOx. Below is a breakdown of NOx sources in the New England area. Nitrous Oxide is what dentists use and what street racers use to give their cars a sudden boost on a straight stretch.

http://www3.epa.gov/region1/airquality/nox.html

It would be informative as to how much of that 19% on-road is directly attributable to TDIs and how does that breakdown for non-CR and CR models!
 

Shaknar

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Pretty sure that's what "=!" meant...but definitely not a universal way to communicate that.
Yeah, I should have been clearer in my wording. I have to remember that not everyone natively thinks programming language when reading it.

I was only mentioning it as a reminder as I had seen a recent post that made reference to Nitrous Oxide as the NOx in question. I appreciate all varieties of opinions on this matter, but I do want the facts out there. Due to this clarification being buried and some may not see the clarification, I just wanted to put it out there as a friendly reminder.

What everyone else decides to do with the facts is up to them. :)
 

ray96disco

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It would be informative as to how much of that 19% on-road is directly attributable to TDIs and how does that breakdown for non-CR and CR models!
How much of the onroad diesel nox2 is from commercial trucks? If this was broken out earlier, I apologize for asking again but this thread is a little unwieldy these days.
 

Lex4TDI4Life

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Why not just type the symbol like this ≠ ?
Not to get toooo off topic :p

"Most programming languages, limiting themselves to the ASCII character set and typeable characters, use ~=, !=, /=, =/=, or <> to represent their Boolean inequality operator."
 

TwinWagons

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They never claimed "green". They called it "clean diesel". They never stated what level of clean. To most, that means no smoke coming out the pipe.
Donald
And in some contexts clean diesel refers to low sulfur diesel. TDI clean diesel cars (vs. previous generation diesels) specifically require "clean diesel" i.e. low sulfur diesel. Because of this, their emissions of SOx are reduced and a number of catalytic processes are possible that would otherwise be contaminated by sulfur.

There's a sticker on the dash saying low-sulfur "clean" diesel only, and another by the fuel filler.

As you say, "clean diesel" can mean just about anything!
 

Lightflyer1

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And in some contexts clean diesel refers to low sulfur diesel. TDI clean diesel cars (vs. previous generation diesels) specifically require "clean diesel" i.e. low sulfur diesel. Because of this, their emissions of SOx are reduced and a number of catalytic processes are possible that would otherwise be contaminated by sulfur.

There's a sticker on the dash saying low-sulfur "clean" diesel only, and another by the fuel filler.

As you say, "clean diesel" can mean just about anything!
That would be ULSD or Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel. Not LSD or Low Sulfur Diesel.
 
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