Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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hybridkiller

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Besides I hardly think this is unrealistic behavior for governments to engage in.
The problem with your theory is that we've seen no indication that the Obama administration, and by extension the EPA, has promoted ANY concerted agenda to restrict or discourage auto imports, e.g. vis a vis tax policy, etc.

Some of these conspiracy theories actually give the government WAY too much credit for organization and general competence - they don't have their sh1t together nearly to the extent you think they do.
 

JM Popaleetus

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Cnbc.com just reported other diesel auto makers are cheating also. At least VW is not alone now.
If it's the same article I saw this morning. They found that most diesels emitted more NOx than the legal limit in every day driving conditions.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...s-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

But VW is still the only one thus far with cheat software.
lol ok. It's clearly about the devastation all these TDIs are really causing on the environment.
VW cheated, and world government's are mad because of it.

There is nothing more to it.
 

Tdiforme2

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Question: Why is those who are turning away from the TDI's running to the Mazda 3' and 6's?
Before bought a Tdi I test drove a 3 and was not impressed, the biggest fault I found was the steering was too quick with oversteer. I felt it would be much more comfortable driving the jetta longer distances from a handling standpoint. I was right I like the handling of my mk6.

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romad

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Question: Why is those who are turning away from the TDI's running to the Mazda 3' and 6's?
A friend of mine owns the Chico VW dealership. In June he opened a Mazda dealership next door to the VW one. I need to go and rib him about planning ahead to retain his customer base!
 

JM Popaleetus

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The problem with your theory is that we've seen no indication that the Obama administration, and by extension the EPA, has promoted ANY concerted agenda to restrict or discourage auto imports, e.g. vis a vis tax policy, etc.
And again, I state, I'm sure Germany is threatening to deem VWs illegal to drive to benefit the American auto industry.
 

jumpinjoe

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Do you not see the contradiction in your own "critical thinking"? You think the big bad government/EPA/The Illuminati, whatever, is practicing protectionism by trying to eliminate this "minuscule amount of vehicles"? That's their strategy? Protect the US auto industry from 1% of cars sold here - some of which are actually built here by American workers?

Is there a sale on tin foil hats going on somewhere that I haven't heard about?
There are government incentives to purchase hybrids as well as a free pass to use carpool lanes to beat traffic. Fuel efficient diesel autos have received no consideration.
 

EnzTDI91

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And again, I state, I'm sure Germany is threatening to deem VWs illegal to drive to benefit the American auto industry.
I didn't hear that. I heard the Horn guy yesterday say that the vehicles are totally safe and legal to drive in the United States.

Im not saying it is in Germany's interests. I'm saying it's in their competitors interests that VW gets screwed over. How is this a conspiracy lol. Corporations are profit maximizers and always looking to achieve an advantage over their competition. They frequently influence public policy....I dont think this concept is revolutionary or a surprise.
 

TCBinaflash

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I have owned two VW and have been in three major accidents. The cars doors and trunk worked just fine after each one. Walk away with out any injuries.

I got rear ended on the freeway going 65 mph- spun me out, did a 180 so I could see cars coming directly at me as I was facing the wrong way (this was the part that sucked). I managed to spin the wheel in the right direction so I hit the concrete median out of traffic.

Sat for a couple minutes and just walked away a little sore.
 

romad

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The guy he was responding to was talking about going from a '12 Golf to a new Mazda 3 - I'm pretty sure he wasn't looking at $70K cars...
Read the quoted post. No restictions on brand/price were mentioned just a question about knowing any manufacturer. I could have said Rolls Royce, Ferrari, etc.
 

turbobrick240

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Another unprovable statement. There have been issues with some on the trusted mechanics list. It isn't infallible either. When I point people to the list I usually tell them to search and check references of the mechanic first. I fortunately have a trusted mechanic I have been using for a decade (runonbeer). I trust his opinion, work and he is reasonable in price. I have had cars serviced by the dealership with no issues as well.
It wasn't stated as a law of science. Relax. You are very lucky to have runonbeer working on your car. You obviously aren't using the great dealer tech's, so I really don't see your point.
 

romad

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I know this is not a Mazda forum, however be-warned;
I owned for three years a brand new 2005 Mazda 6 , manual tranny...
The clutch failed at 30KMiles (shuddering badly), after had it replaced, and few more thousands miles some ball bearing on the transmission shaft stated to whistle. Sold it before a >$1K repair bill to hit me.
On one instance it died on me completely on my way to work (alternator + batt)
Windshield wiper motor died too.
Driveability and performance were completely unimpressive.
If they are now better - I don't know
No, you owned a FoMoCo product. The old Mazda 6 was a Ford Probe stablemate. Thank God Mazda is no longer linked to FoMoCo!
 

hybridkiller

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Read the quoted post. No restictions on brand/price were mentioned just a question about knowing any manufacturer. I could have said Rolls Royce, Ferrari, etc.
I read it just fine the first time - there was an implied context to the conversation that either you missed, or are intentionally refusing to acknowledge.

CONGRATULATIONS! YOU WON THE ARGUMENT!

here's your cookie...
 

Rico567

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There are pages after pages of babbling but this has the possibility of being real news. If they all fail it's going to give VW a partial out. "They were standards impossible for anyone to reach".

If this develops further, that is if it's true that no car meets the standard in real world driving, kiss your "buy back" ideas goodbye.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/an...sions-tests-guardian-2015-10-09?siteid=yhoof2
I don't think there's any -immediate- worries. The EPA is already taking some heat for VW getting away with the emissions cheat for 8 years. Imagine how much they will take if a whole bunch of cars from many manufacturers suddenly can't pass "real world" (whatever that turns out to be) tests. So- until CARB or the Euros move forward with this, I don't think we need to worry about any rush by the EPA.
 

jen_madcity

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It's worth noting that based on Horn's testimony, the dealers have individually been given money to address this.

Buybacks aren't happening on a corporate level, and they're only going to happen in the form of favorable trade-ins on a dealer level (they're going to use the money to make sure you remain a customer - if you don't want a VW after this, a multi-brand dealer may be your best bet).

That said, I still think everyone is better off hanging on to their cars.
Just for fun, I contacted the dealer to see if they can/will do anything for those who just want out of their TDi for whatever reason, knowing that VW needs those current owners to stay loyal. They talked about the $2K owner loyalty bonus (peanuts), but also said that VW has told them it's going to do more....they just haven't said what yet. Stay tuned....

Agree that for now it's best to sit tight & keep driving.
 

Lightflyer1

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It wasn't stated as a law of science. Relax. You are very lucky to have runonbeer working on your car. You obviously aren't using the great dealer tech's, so I really don't see your point.
Read my last sentence. I have used dealer techs for service with no ill effects. The point is you were wrong in your statement. There are dealers who do excellent work. Finding a dealer who does good service is about as hard as finding an independent who does good work. The trusted mechanics list is but a start to finding that person. I am lucky to have runonbeer handy for major things. But he is 40 miles away and not easy to use for some routine items. I have a dealer handy and another independent I am testing for those times. Both independents are closed on the weekends while the dealer is open for business on Saturday. As I told my children when they were young, any time you make a blanket statement you are almost always wrong.
 

tvmaster

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Question: Why is those who are turning away from the TDI's running to the Mazda 3' and 6's?
They're solid to drive, and in the warmer climates at least, are reliable and relatively inexpensive to service. Lots of mom & pop service places can work on them and not ruin them. Lots of aftermarket tuning parts available.

the only downside to the M3, with many insurance companies, is premiums.
It costs as much to insure our 2007 M3GT as it does to insure our 2010 JSW TDI. Reason: Fast & Furious types wrap them around telephone poles at a higher rate, they tell me ?

The one car I don't see anyone comment on as a possible TDI replacement is the Lexus CT200h. Design totally stolen from the Mazda 3, Lexus service, and 40+ MPG. Has anyone test driven, or own one? The price is obnoxious, though.
Would have to go to the used market I think
 
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nj1266

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If I am not able to sell my Golf TDi in the mean time, I will not accept a retrofit, ever. They will have to buy my car back or I'll be lined up with everyone else who's suing them.

I am with you. I am lucky to have a 2010 who value has declined before this fiasco. I hardly ever drive it now that I have an electric car for my daily commute. It is just a back up cat for that occasionally long drive.

I will hold on to the for as long as I can w/o doing that retro-fit and recall unless I am forced to do so by the DMV withholding the registration renewal.

I had hoped that VW would do the right thing and offer a buyback to owners who do not want to go through this whole ordeal. Hell, I would even accept a buyback at $1000 less than the pre-scandal market value. VW, as expected, will do the least costly thing and not the right thing. It is not enough that VW's lack of ethics caused this in the first place, they are now blaming the engineers rather than the higher ups and VW wants to do a hack job on early TDIs that might not work.

I had promised myself that if the car becomes totally valueless then I will personally drive it to the crusher and make a video of it and post it for ****s and giggles.


Sent from my iPhone 8
 

tvmaster

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There are government incentives to purchase hybrids as well as a free pass to use carpool lanes to beat traffic. Fuel efficient diesel autos have received no consideration.
are there still hybrid incentives? For some reason I thought I read that only EV vehicles were getting tax breaks. I'll have to check the .gov site
 

Lightflyer1

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I had promised myself that if the car becomes totally valueless then I will personally drive it to the crusher and make a video of it and post it for ****s and giggles.
Just call me and I will come get it. You can take a video of me driving it away to Texas to live on. ;)
 

TDI smile

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bring

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The one car I don't see anyone comment on as a possible TDI replacement is the Lexus CT200h. Design totally stolen from the Mazda 3, Lexus service, and 40+ MPG. Has anyone test driven, or own one? The price is obnoxious, though.
Because it's a dog. It looks good - that's about it though. It's a fancy Prius.
 

tvmaster

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I am with you. I am lucky to have a 2010 who value has declined before this fiasco. I hardly ever drive it now that I have an electric car for my daily commute. It is just a back up cat for that occasionally long drive......
So here in SoCal, we pay .47 kWh at the highest tier, which we easily hit in our house, averaging 900 kWh monthly.

At the government MPG site, at those electric rates, it said an EV would cost $3.46 per 25 mile segments to operate, vs. $1.82 for the VW TDI.

Have you figured out how much your electric usage has gone up since buying the EV, and is yours a plug-in?
 

PC Dave

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The one car I don't see anyone comment on as a possible TDI replacement is the Lexus CT200h. Design totally stolen from the Mazda 3, Lexus service, and 40+ MPG. Has anyone test driven, or own one? The price is obnoxious, though. Would have to go to the used market I think
It's Lexus's version of the Prius. Better handling (but not at Golf or Mazda level), better interior but less interior room, quieter, 5-8 mpg less than the Prius due to more weight (sound insulation and such), less stigma if you think there's a stigma to driving a Prius. More like choosing to buy an A3 TDI over the VW version. If you like the idea of a Prius it's a valid choice.
 

Jeta Life

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VWs are safer in crashes

I got rear ended on the freeway going 65 mph- spun me out, did a 180 so I could see cars coming directly at me as I was facing the wrong way (this was the part that sucked). I managed to spin the wheel in the right direction so I hit the concrete median out of traffic.
Sat for a couple minutes and just walked away a little sore.
I also survived a high speed collision very similar to the accident you just described in my 2001 Passat B5 which was solid
this is why I like my VW, it feels solid and has many airbags
I love that this car can survive a high speed collision, they are very safe cars you feel connected to. I travel with my wife and 2 daughters in this car because I trust it is safe. I think SUVs are overrated.
The Mark V production was a big deal back in 2005, VW spent a lot of money on its production. The bodies have a lot of structural rigidity.
My Dad has a Jetta Mark IV gasser but it is smaller and is also a tough little car.
People out there drive like maniacs but it is good to know that BMW 540 that hit me also ended up in the junkyard, he was drunk and I forgave him, but he got arrested.
I miss that 2001 Passat 1.8T Tiptronic, babied it with PM, she went out with a bang and maybe saved my life.
I like smaller cars. You can actually look out the rear windows and don't need a back up camera. Its funny really but I feel very safe in my car, the tiny 2.0 sedan in a land of suvs.
 

Matt-98AHU

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Your numbers for retrofit are way too high. Volkswagen doesn't pay their full retail price for parts and they certainly don't pay their own $100 per hour labor rate. Take your estimate and divide it by three, and you might be a bit closer.
Certainly don't pay full retail for parts, but since dealers are independent franchises, not owned by VW, they can't be stuffed that badly by VW either.

I asked a dealer warranty administrator about this. VW will make a deal with several dealers in a region what the warranty reimbursement per hour rate is. The admin I spoke to, their normal hourly rate is $125/hr. VW's reimbursement to them is $111.50/hr.

There are other details about this I'm sure I could go into, but as dealers are in fact independent and have a massive amount of overhead, VW does pay pretty close to a dealer's normal rate. Of course where VW has power is in setting the "suggested repair times" which they set at such a low time that good technicians have a hard time beating the time, and your average tech goes way over the time. Both tech and dealer only get paid for the SRT time no matter how long a tech takes to do the job. Technicians have to hustle hard to make money with warranty work.
 
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