Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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mjLyco

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Oct 14, 2010
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NJ
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2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG

peiphil

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Location
Tignish PEI Canada
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2005 passat GLS TDI and big old Dodge Cummins TDI
Female geese are better at this!
They know good propaganda!
People you have a good clean safe car
If you don't think so take a good look around you and look at the whole story of whats out there.
The Asian cars are lucky to last 8 years around here in the salt air
Cant pas a safety and go to junk yard with engines still working fine.
Lots of vw cars around here running every day with a half of million kms on the clock with NO rust
Be careful of what you ask for because you might just get it!
 

gene r

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Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI sold back to VW
I've been watching this thread since day one. I am from the group of folks who feel cheated and angry. I'll never buy another VW. So you know, I worked as a mechanic for VW and Audi for many years. What amazes me are those here who are apologists for VW. There is no two ways about it. If you bought your car new, they lied to you and took an extra (approx TDI cost) $5,000 of your money and they laughed all the way to the bank. How you can think this is OK is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Finally, I would like to point out. If a person commits murder there are different degrees. A crime of passion, where the murderer is enraged and loses his senses, becomes momentarily crazy is the end of the spectrum by which the courts give some understanding and leniency. But, the most severe of murder sentences are the cold blooded, premeditated criminals. "Premeditated" crime is the key word here as those who will premeditate in advance and carry out their crime in the future will full knowledge of what they are doing, are criminals who have no conscience, no remorse. We call these people psychopaths, these people are the ones that are locked up, never to be trusted in society. What you have in the VW management that executed this fraud is exactly this behavior. It is premeditated crime that stole your money and continued with this crime year after year. How or why you feel you can trust them or even consider another VW is boggling to me. These are not people of conscience who want to "win your trust", they are scared, they can see they may have destroyed this company to the point of bankruptcy and when they say they want your trust back, they want more of your money is what they want. They want your money to save their own asses and then they can be in a good position to carry on with cheating you once again (they'll just be smarter about not getting caught).

The only way there will be real change at VW is if/when they go bankrupt and the German government requires the entrenched "good 'ole boys" all must leave.
 
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blownaway

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Location
Oregon
TDI
2002 TDI (waiting for my 02M conversion) 99.5 TDI(totalled) 2002 gasser wagon, 2012 Golf
Relax, our cars are still as awesome as the day we bought them. Quit buying into the idea that the CR TDI's are so horrible...

"According to a new paper(2009) by Ott and Pickering in the Journal of Geophysical Research, each flash of lightning on average in the several mid-latitude and subtropical thunderstorms studied turned 7 kilograms (15.4 pounds) of nitrogen into chemically reactive NOx. "In other words, you could drive a new car across the United States more than 50 times and still produce less than half as much NOx as an average lightning flash," Ott estimated. The results were published July 2009.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091030100022.htm
 

k^2

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Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Location
MI
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen DSG - Sold back to VW. Replaced with Sportwagen 2.5 GAS
I've been watching this thread since day one. I am from the group of folks who feel cheated and angry. I'll never buy another VW. So you know, I worked as a mechanic for VW and Audi for many years. What amazes me are those here who are apologists for VW. There is no two ways about it. If you bought your car new, they lied to you and took an extra (approx TDI cost) $5,000 of your money and they laughed all the way to the bank. How you can think this is OK is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Finally, I would like to point out. If a person commits murder there are different degrees. A crime of passion, where the murderer is enraged and loses his senses, becomes momentarily crazy is the end of the spectrum by which the courts give some understanding and leniency. But, the most severe of murder sentences are the cold blooded, premeditated criminals. "Premeditated" crime is the key word here as those who will premeditate in advance and carry out their crime in the future will full knowledge of what they are doing, are criminals who have no conscience, no remorse. We call these people psychopaths, these people are the ones that are locked up, never to be trusted in society. What you have in the VW management that executed this fraud is exactly this behavior. It is premeditated crime that stole your money and continued with this crime year after year. How or why you feel you can trust them or even consider another VW is boggling to me. These are not people of conscience who want to "win your trust", they are scared, they can see they may have destroyed this company to the point of bankruptcy and when they say they want your trust back, they want more of your money is what they want. They want your money to save their own asses and then they can be in a good position to carry on with cheating you once again (they'll just be smarter about not getting caught).

The only way there will be real change at VW is if/when they go bankrupt and the German government requires the entrenched "good 'ole boys" all must leave.
Must be nice to to be one of few privlidged ones to afford a Tesla. Go and save the planet with your income level. I can not afford it. Except for NOx my car still pollutes much less than 95% of the cars on the road. When I bought it no where it said in the specs the amounts of NOx it was supposed to emit. So I dont feel cheated by VW. VW lied to government who because of guys like you sets unrealistic standards. So big deal VW lied and nobody died. Politicians including the ones in California lie all the time but that seems to be OK.
 

tvmaster

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Socal
TDI
2010 JSW
This. Mr. Horn's apology arrived in my mailbox today and, of course, it is the garden variety stuff corporate trots out. To your point, your wife and countless others should be a real concern for VW, not just current VW owners but potential buyers. I've yet to receive the 2K loyalty offer.

I am not ready to give up on VW...I've only owned VWs and perhaps that makes me somewhat unimaginative in the car buying world. What else would I consider from VW? Prolly a 1.4 Golf Bluemotion or a bare bones GTI - my driving needs are apparently pretty simple at my age. Other than VW? I like the Volvo C30 hatchback and I do like the Kia Optima since its redesign.

Who knows? Perhaps VW will surprise everybody.
because of the amazing reliability of our Mazda 3 hatch, I'd love it if they released a diesel in North America, as their SkyActive gets middling mileage numbers at best. Really fun car to drive, just crummy gas mileage.
Also considering hybrids, just because in California that means a single person can use the HOV lanes. Gutless though...
 

NYC-TDI

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Location
NYC
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TDI Free and Loving It
My dealer plays stupid on everything. I've had my 14 Passat in for the excessive regen and mpg loss since the 2306 ECu flash. It's been in for the intercooler pipe blowing apart. It's been in for the heater core plugging. I've complained about the brakes pulsing since it was new. I've complained about the leather seat (drivers) cracking open. I've complained that I had to dig the silicone out of my block heater plug at -40 weather last winter, only to find out it was done intentionally at VW because there was danger of starting an engine fire if we used it. I've had the head unit replaced for constantly freezing and crashing. In every situation, they have the same answer - "No idea about that, never heard of it before, first we've ever seen that".
I think this must be part of VW corporate training. Does VW hand out a training manual with these helpful comments for their dealers to use when dealing with customers? I ask because as I'm reading your post I found myself asking "where did I hear that before?" Oh right, at MY VW dealer.

You also forgot one of their other favorites: "Can not duplicate problem". I always wondered how that was possible when I, not being a VW technician, could duplicate, triplicate, quadruplicate and more-a-cate said problem but so called professionals could not.
 
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Mark SF

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Location
SF Bay Area
TDI
2013 Passat TDi
Don't forget "functioning according to manufacturer's intent at this time". What they said about the rattling rear shelf, since fixed by yours truly by stuffing foam weatherstripping down the gap between shelf and rear window.
 
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pknopp

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Location
WV
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
What we need is a test of a ECU reflash that forces the 'meet emissions test' mode always on.

Actually this mess could be quite a boon to tuners -- if the fix is a detune that reduces performance/efficiency/etc as is widely speculated, there will be a lot more people considering a Malone stage 0.5 tune to undo it.
Quite a good deal if the solution is to detune the cars and pay us a $1000 for loss of performance and mpg and then flip that money for a tune.
 

dhectorg

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Location
Ohio
TDI
2012 Golf TDI w/ Tech Package
because of the amazing reliability of our Mazda 3 hatch, I'd love it if they released a diesel in North America, as their SkyActive gets middling mileage numbers at best. Really fun car to drive, just crummy gas mileage.
Also considering hybrids, just because in California that means a single person can use the HOV lanes. Gutless though...
Based on reviews of the SkyActiv engines, I thought the Mazda3 had some of the best fuel economy in the compact class, unless you're comparing it to diesel, which wouldn't be a fair comparison. I would definitely consider a 3sGT down the road...very nice car at a fantastic price.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
I've been watching this thread since day one. I am from the group of folks who feel cheated and angry. I'll never buy another VW. So you know, I worked as a mechanic for VW and Audi for many years. What amazes me are those here who are apologists for VW. There is no two ways about it. If you bought your car new, they lied to you and took an extra (approx TDI cost) $5,000 of your money and they laughed all the way to the bank. How you can think this is OK is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Finally, I would like to point out. If a person commits murder there are different degrees. A crime of passion, where the murderer is enraged and loses his senses, becomes momentarily crazy is the end of the spectrum by which the courts give some understanding and leniency. But, the most severe of murder sentences are the cold blooded, premeditated criminals. "Premeditated" crime is the key word here as those who will premeditate in advance and carry out their crime in the future will full knowledge of what they are doing, are criminals who have no conscience, no remorse. We call these people psychopaths, these people are the ones that are locked up, never to be trusted in society. What you have in the VW management that executed this fraud is exactly this behavior. It is premeditated crime that stole your money and continued with this crime year after year. How or why you feel you can trust them or even consider another VW is boggling to me. These are not people of conscience who want to "win your trust", they are scared, they can see they may have destroyed this company to the point of bankruptcy and when they say they want your trust back, they want more of your money is what they want. They want your money to save their own asses and then they can be in a good position to carry on with cheating you once again (they'll just be smarter about not getting caught).

The only way there will be real change at VW is if/when they go bankrupt and the German government requires the entrenched "good 'ole boys" all must leave.

Boo hoo, your TDI is still super clean and still gets great mpg. Get over it. :rolleyes:
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Quite a good deal if the solution is to detune the cars and pay us a $1000 for loss of performance and mpg and then flip that money for a tune.
Exactly.

And not only that, but I have serious doubts that anyone bellyaching in here about being lied to, etc. etc. etc. would have chosen differently if given a choice:

a. salesperson takes you in a backroom and discloses that VW has provided a performance tune that will result in increased performance along with increased emissions
b. drive it off the lot in econo-mode
c. pay an extra few thousands dollars for the TDI+ with AdBlue
d. walk out the door and buy a subaru :rolleyes:

I'm thinking that everyone here except a handful would have picked a. I don't think anyone would have chosen d., that's hyperbole.

If you righteous feeling, deceived victims feel so put upon because of your environmental footprint, email VW and offer to pay the difference of an SCR retrofit in your vehicles's MY dollars.

I'd love to see your tax returns and how often you claim all your eBay and Amazon purchases out of state purchases because I can't imagine any of you would fudge to the feds about something. :cool:
 

croppz

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Location
Mooresville, North Carolina
TDI
2013 DSG Jetta TDI
Another armchair quarterback who doesn't even own one of the affected vehicles.:rolleyes:
I mean he isn't wrong. A lot of people are losing their minds over this, with good reason. Everyone has their reasons whether it be ethics, environment, performance....etc. But that doesn't mean we should all go out and lose our asses on our cars, especially the folks who just bought theirs (myself included). Doesn't make sense to me.
 

teamyoga

Active member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Location
Pacific Northwest
TDI
2015 Jetta TDS SEL (6M)
My personal story with my TDI is one of brand loyalty SWITCHING. For many years I drove another make and was happy doing so. When it was time to part with my 15 year-old vehicle I looked at everything in the market. My mission was to find something that provided more fuel economy but was still fun to operate. One test drive and I was a convert. And I'm not at all unhappy with my 6spd Jetta. It's a blast to drive.

That having been said, it doesn't foster trust to find out the software was tinkered with and rolled to market violating federal emissions standards. It raises concerns and it's not the relationship I wanted to have with my new brand.

I certainly understand those who are outraged AND those who feel this is no big deal and will blow over - so to speak. I think there's room in the mix for both of these views and I'm in no position to tell a loyalist to calm down nor am I comfortable telling the less concerned to wake up.

If I'm going to take a performance hit as a result of the recall resolution perhaps VW should be thinking of other ways to make that up. Will I feel it in real time? Perhaps not. Still it would go a long way toward rebuilding trust if this gets fixed in a way that satisfies reasonable consumers.
 

Jimmy Coconuts

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Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Location
Henderson NV
TDI
2009 JSW, 2010 Jetta, 2011 Q7 Prestige, 2012 A3 Premium, 2013 A3 Premium Plus, 2014 Beetle, 2015 Jetta
I mean he isn't wrong. A lot of people are losing their minds over this, with good reason. Everyone has their reasons whether it be ethics, environment, performance....etc. But that doesn't mean we should all go out and lose our asses on our cars, especially the folks who just bought theirs (myself included). Doesn't make sense to me.
I'm in no hurry to sell mine either, and certainly not going to give it away.
 

dhectorg

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Ohio
TDI
2012 Golf TDI w/ Tech Package
I mean he isn't wrong. A lot of people are losing their minds over this, with good reason. Everyone has their reasons whether it be ethics, environment, performance....etc. But that doesn't mean we should all go out and lose our asses on our cars, especially the folks who just bought theirs (myself included). Doesn't make sense to me.
Frankly, I'm kind of sick of all the VW apologists. VW did a very stupid thing so I can totally understand why some people simply don't want to drive a TDi anymore. Anyone else's reaction to this mess doesn't have to make sense to you because it's their reaction, not yours. Everyone has their own standards. It's their car and their decision. Makes sense to me.
 
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Jeta Life

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Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
NJ & North Pocono
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI DSG Auto
What VW did was wrong, no question. I read a lot of articles on the scandal.
The EA 189 engine was so far into production that after taking 2 years off the 2009s were tampered with because engineers were under the gun.
The greed factor cost VW on this one. Had they gone with the Daimler and BlueTec none of this would have happened.
Engineers tried to keep the cost of the cars down without adding expensive hardware or maybe VW just did not want to share with Daimler.
For those engineers to make such a blunder to cost a huge company like VW all this business is astronomical.
All they had to do was tell their high demanding hard ass bosses that the cars could not be made to comply and they needed more time or more money for more hardware. They took a pretty risky shortcut.
What a costly decision for many to have to suffer with now, 7 years later.
 

Tfuce

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Location
Syracuse, NY
TDI
2014 Golf TDI
Exactly.

And not only that, but I have serious doubts that anyone bellyaching in here about being lied to, etc. etc. etc. would have chosen differently if given a choice
I am not one of those who is freaking out about this. I am waiting to hear what VAG is going to do to fix the problem before I rend my clothes and gnash my teeth.

One thing I would do differently if I could set back the clock is to buy the 2015 with the AdBlue instead of the 2014 I got a good deal on because the '15's were already out. The fix is obviously going to be easier for the '15's and I am guessing it will have less of an impact on performance and mpg (my reasons for buying the car).
 

tsingtao

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Location
Phoenix, AZ
TDI
2016 Mazda 3 Hatchback 2009 Jetta TDI--Bought back 12/21/16
Exactly.

And not only that, but I have serious doubts that anyone bellyaching in here about being lied to, etc. etc. etc. would have chosen differently if given a choice:
Had I known that rather than having superior resale value compared to a gasser, that my resale value was going to take a dump due to VWs actions (and I am in the market for a new vehicle this year) I might have chosen differently.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Boo hoo, your TDI is still super clean and still gets great mpg. Get over it. :rolleyes:
But what are all these poor souls going to complain about once this whole scandal is in the rear view? Should be some useful info coming out today.
 

newbeetleman

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2004
Location
NE
TDI
none
Boo hoo, your TDI is still super clean and still gets great mpg. Get over it. :rolleyes:
Your posts have been confrontational, why is that? Right now TDI gets good MPG but what will it be like after this fix? Oh wait, you don't know? So why the snotty post?

I'm betting it will drop as low as 35-38 mpg, plus the power loss!
 
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Jeta Life

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Jun 5, 2015
Location
NJ & North Pocono
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI DSG Auto
I am not one of those who is freaking out about this. I am waiting to hear what VAG is going to do to fix the problem before I rend my clothes and gnash my teeth.
.
True, rushing out and getting a trade because of the fear of having a worthless vehicle is very much like the stock market volatility.
You're holding a bad stock, buy low sell high. Selling here for a trade is selling low and buying high. Financially it makes no sense to trade now.
Waiting till January for a fix, still better than having a new car payment. These cars are still safe to drive.
One thing the engineers that were under the gun did not have was time. We have plenty of time. Having patience is another story.
Part of the blame is to technology because it gets us used to speed. Fixing a car and getting it right takes time, not rushing.
Of course it's easier to sign a check and get a trade. A little paperwork, test drive, a few social formalities, bring in your old title and boom you're out the door with another car.
 
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