Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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MonsterTDI09

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Todd_y

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The Germans don't mess around - none of this "up to a year" stuff. VW has 10 days to determine a fix for all 11 million cars, if it's not acceptable they'll be banned from German roads:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/german...present-solution-to-diesel-emissions-problem/
Further evidence that there is a plan in place already. I don't believe last week's very public admission of guilt would have occurred without a complete exit strategy, rolled out on a specific, previously-agreed-upon timeline.

I believe VW negotiated their exit from this with European and North American authorities long before they took it public, and governments can now make a few political points by sabre-rattling and "demanding" an immediate fix that (as they already know) was developed and negotiated perhaps months ago. They will trot a couple scapegoats through some boring hearings to maintain the illusion of some kind of pseudo-judicial comeuppance.

VW almost surely already has developed, tested, and presented a software fix that is acceptable to agencies concerned, and will roll it out in the next weeks with more mea culpas and maybe a free oil change (not including labour, of course) when you come in to have your software neutered between now and Christmas.

We are watching a piece of theatre unfold, nothing more. The fix will probably be ready for you at your dealer the same day the announcement is made, current TDI vehicle stock will be re-rolled out and waxed up, maybe a few discounts to get things moving, balloons on antennas (except they don't have antennas, but you get the idea), away we go.
 

TDILeo

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Further evidence that there is a plan in place already. I don't believe last week's very public admission of guilt would have occurred without a complete exit strategy, rolled out on a specific, previously-agreed-upon timeline.
I believe VW negotiated their exit from this with European and North American authorities long before they took it public, and governments can now make a few political points by sabre-rattling and "demanding" an immediate fix that (as they already know) was developed and negotiated perhaps months ago. They will trot a couple scapegoats through some boring hearings to maintain the illusion of some kind of pseudo-judicial comeuppance.
VW almost surely already has developed, tested, and presented a software fix that is acceptable to agencies concerned, and will roll it out in the next weeks with more mea culpas and maybe a free oil change (not including labour, of course) when you come in to have your software neutered between now and Christmas.
We are watching a piece of theatre unfold, nothing more. The fix will probably be ready for you at your dealer the same day the announcement is made, current TDI vehicle stock will be re-rolled out and waxed up, maybe a few discounts to get things moving, balloons on antennas (except they don't have antennas, but you get the idea), away we go.
Well, under a warranty extension they are offering diagnosis and replacement of the HPFP. So, yeah, happy days are here again.
 

nwdiver

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I can handle truth just fine. I just hate a few things.
1. People touching my vehicle.
2. Self entitled people
3. The Pacific northwest.
'Self entitled' people are annoying... but I'll take that any day over a callous disregard for public health.

 

tsingtao

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That would also mean that any reported claim of over 'pretty close to zero' would result in a 'total loss.'
Wow

I'll guess that it is not so simple though. Book value is based on replacement value. If you cannot buy a replacement car from a dealership there is no book value.
My non-lawyer guess is that means that the involved insurance agencies will find it convenient to stall all payments.

Unless your policy specifically specifies replacement, you will receive the market value of the vehicle and it will be totalled if the cost of repairs is greater than this value.

I don't know how often the official values that insurance companies use is updated but when it is, TDIs will take a big hit.

As the insurance company will be on the hook for less payout they should lower the premium and those states that base registration fees on value should lower the fee. But don't hold your breath.
 
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tsingtao

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Let's hope this bit of legislation does not happen in the US:

If Volkswagen can’t present a viable solution by then, according to Dobrindt, the German government would have no choice but to ban the 2.8 million affected cars from driving on that country’s roads.
Let's hope it does. Maybe then we will get more out of VW than vague corporate speak about how much they care.
 

rhafe123

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Great. What's next for TDI owners? A good deep key scrape down the side? Or worse? :(
Getting keyed (and the pollution). That's what I'm worried about..... That's why I'm no longer driving mine. Fortunately my 1999 Toyota with 270K miles is running just fine. Hard to believe it pollutes less than the VW though......
 
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croppz

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'Self entitled' people are annoying... but I'll take that any day over a callous disregard for public health.

I dont think people are disregarding public health. I just think they dont want to have their car neutered because of what VW has done, which I fully understand.

If the fix doesn't end up killing these cars emission equipment and power, I'll get it flashed. If it does cause the emissions equipment to prematurely fail, then my car is staying just how it is. I don't need to be driving around wondering when my cars DPF or EGR is going to die, that is unless VW warranties our emissions stuff for the life of the car as a result of this fix.
 

GoFaster

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Let's not forget that VW has been aware of this since 2014. They've had plenty of time to work on a fix.
That doesn't mean they actually have.

It's fairly likely that there was a considerable period of denial before the request "what's actually in our software" made it from the PR department to the correct person who could actually answer the question correctly. VW is a large company. It can take a while before a technical request makes it to the right person (who is probably busy with other tasks) and a sufficient priority is assigned to the task (Drop everything, and look into this).

It's known that the first attempted software fix did not work. Remains to be seen whether that first attempt actually removed the "cheat" functionality ... my guess is that it did not, but restored some degree of functionality to the emission controls but not enough ... likely because fully removing the "cheat" has bad consequences that they didn't want to expose at the time.

EPA went public because VW does NOT have a fully engineered and validated fix at this time.

The threat by the German authorities only requires them to have a plan by 7 Oct. As noted earlier, they will put together a vaguely worded letter to satisfy the authorities while someone else actually works on what the real schedule of events is going to be.
 

SageBrush

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My name isn't google.... but just this once... ;)

~3 days...

The incredibly short half-life of smog has been demonstrated by Beijing several times. They can almost turn it on and off at will by shutting down coal plants and restricting cars.
Thanks :D
I know how irritating requests for spoon-feeding can be. In my defense I did Google a little before I posted but only came up with Ozone in water.

Cleaning up the air in Beijing by turning off factories and cars is not just chemical half-life; the wind helps to dissipate the smog.

Since I don't know the full chemical life-cycle of smog I still am unsure of how to "weight" Nox.
 

ChemMan

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If it does cause the emissions equipment to prematurely fail, then my car is staying just how it is. I don't need to be driving around wondering when my cars DPF or EGR is going to die, that is unless VW warranties our emissions stuff for the life of the car as a result of this fix.
How are you going to know? Any shortened life would take years to become apparent.

I do think the settlement with EPA will involved extended the warranty on the affected components. It is in the EPA's best interest for the components to be warrantied. If they fail out of warranty many consumers will try to bypass them resulting in increased emissions.
 

Diverb

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I am really kicking my self in the butt for selling my 2013 Jetta TDi ! I am trying to figure out a way to buy another. I went to a VW dealership that has a used 2014 one with only 14,000 miles on it but they wont sell it. I'd like to get my hands on another soon just incase VW stops bringing the TDi to North America
 

croppz

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How are you going to know? Any shortened life would take years to become apparent.
I do think the settlement with EPA will involved extended the warranty on the affected components. It is in the EPA's best interest for the components to be warrantied. If they fail out of warranty many consumers will try to bypass them resulting in increased emissions.
I won't know, however I'm sure there will be people who will find out that it's putting more stress on such components, if it does.
 

ccbsecu

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That doesn't mean they actually have.
It's fairly likely that there was a considerable period of denial before the request "what's actually in our software" made it from the PR department to the correct person who could actually answer the question correctly. VW is a large company. It can take a while before a technical request makes it to the right person (who is probably busy with other tasks) and a sufficient priority is assigned to the task (Drop everything, and look into this).
It's known that the first attempted software fix did not work. Remains to be seen whether that first attempt actually removed the "cheat" functionality ... my guess is that it did not, but restored some degree of functionality to the emission controls but not enough ... likely because fully removing the "cheat" has bad consequences that they didn't want to expose at the time.
EPA went public because VW does NOT have a fully engineered and validated fix at this time.
The threat by the German authorities only requires them to have a plan by 7 Oct. As noted earlier, they will put together a vaguely worded letter to satisfy the authorities while someone else actually works on what the real schedule of events is going to be.
The article said that VW must present a binding plan of action....not a preliminary plan.
 

ChemMan

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Further evidence that there is a plan in place already. I don't believe last week's very public admission of guilt would have occurred without a complete exit strategy, rolled out on a specific, previously-agreed-upon timeline.
I believe VW negotiated their exit from this with European and North American authorities long before they took it public, and governments can now make a few political points by sabre-rattling and "demanding" an immediate fix that (as they already know) was developed and negotiated perhaps months ago. They will trot a couple scapegoats through some boring hearings to maintain the illusion of some kind of pseudo-judicial comeuppance.
VW almost surely already has developed, tested, and presented a software fix that is acceptable to agencies concerned, and will roll it out in the next weeks with more mea culpas and maybe a free oil change (not including labour, of course) when you come in to have your software neutered between now and Christmas.
We are watching a piece of theatre unfold, nothing more. The fix will probably be ready for you at your dealer the same day the announcement is made, current TDI vehicle stock will be re-rolled out and waxed up, maybe a few discounts to get things moving, balloons on antennas (except they don't have antennas, but you get the idea), away we go.
If VW could have solved it with a software fix why didn't they back in May? They spent five months working on a software fix and at that point regulators will pretty clear that they fix it or it goes public. If they would have fixed it in May this story would have been buried on page 38, VW likely could have agreed to an update without admitting fault, and they would be selling 2016 vehicles right now.

The fact that they didn't fix it would seem to indicate they may not be able to fix it with just a software flash.
 

slimphatty

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'15 Golf S DSG
I'm still driving my TDI...shoot I don't even have a month with it!

I don't mind polluting the environment...there are worse offenders out there.
 

maybe368

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Happily none
Unless your policy specifically specifies replacement, you will receive the market value of the vehicle and it will be totalled if the cost of repairs is greater than this value.

I don't know how often the official values that insurance companies use is updated but when it is, TDIs will take a big hit.

As the insurance company will be on the hook for less payout they should lower the premium and those states that base registration fees on value should lower the fee. But don't hold your breath.


I have full replacement value on my Beetle. I also bought a "bridge" type policy that pays any "upside down" amount. I do see myself being made whole when this has finally played out. Is it too early to call FINAL POST?...Mark
 

ChemMan

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I won't know, however I'm sure there will be people who will find out that it's putting more stress on such components, if it does.
Well that is a guarantee. It absolutely will put more stress on the emission control system. The question is will that lead to a reduction in effective lifespan?
 

nwdiver

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Location
Texas
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2003 Jetta TDI (sold); 2012 Tesla Model S
I dont think people are disregarding public health. I just think they dont want to have their car neutered because of what VW has done, which I fully understand.
Keeping NOx levels high for the sake of performance.... kinda the definition of callous disregard for public health....

Case-in-point....

I don't mind polluting the environment...there are worse offenders out there.
To be clear... NOx isn't an environmental threat as much as a human health threat... NOx is gone before the environment really notices. Not so much for pedestrians with asthma.
 
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Claudio

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I don't mind polluting the environment...there are worse offenders out there.
Tipical American response...you remind me of a colleague of mine: I was trying to explain her how to use the printer to save paper, and her response was: I don't care, we are in America here, we have a lot of trees! :rolleyes:
 

Todd_y

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Location
Vancouver Island
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That doesn't mean they actually have.
It's fairly likely that there was a considerable period of denial before the request "what's actually in our software" made it from the PR department to the correct person who could actually answer the question correctly. VW is a large company. It can take a while before a technical request makes it to the right person (who is probably busy with other tasks) and a sufficient priority is assigned to the task (Drop everything, and look into this).
It's known that the first attempted software fix did not work. Remains to be seen whether that first attempt actually removed the "cheat" functionality ... my guess is that it did not, but restored some degree of functionality to the emission controls but not enough ... likely because fully removing the "cheat" has bad consequences that they didn't want to expose at the time.
EPA went public because VW does NOT have a fully engineered and validated fix at this time.
The threat by the German authorities only requires them to have a plan by 7 Oct. As noted earlier, they will put together a vaguely worded letter to satisfy the authorities while someone else actually works on what the real schedule of events is going to be.
Good post, and I agree with your thinking, but why would VW make the admission of guilt in your scenario? Would the board of the ninth largest fortune 500 company in the world allow their CEO to say anything without a complete plan?

I agree the non-urea software fix will not likely bring vehicles into full compliance, but I think agreements are probably already in place that they are "compliant enough". The German government would not publicly ask a question they don't already know the answer to. The "deadline" for a plan seems like posturing and face-saving for the KBA.
 

Booth44

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Location
SW Ontario
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2013 Passat SEL
Keeping NOx levels high for the sake of performance.... kinda the definition of callous disregard for public health....
Nah, you've got it all wrong, it's keeping NOx levels high for the sake of p̶e̶r̶f̶o̶r̶m̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ global warming ;) Think of the poor polar bears.:D
 

SageBrush

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CO
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More Top Executives at VW Feeling the Heat

--
Volkswagen has suspended the R&D chiefs of its core VW brand, luxury division Audi and sports-car maker Porsche, sources familiar with the matter said on Monday.

The carmaker's supervisory board last Friday agreed to put a number of employees on leave until the details of VW's emissions cheating scandal were cleared up, without providing names.

Reuters reported last Thursday that VW would fire top brand executives as it tries to recover from the scandal.

Audi, VW and Porsche declined comment.

---
 
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