Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[Aquaticmind]

I just think about the arrogance on the part of VW mgmt., the deceit. Someone should go to jail for fraud! .... NOT GOOD.

Hopefully it isn't that bad and isn't complete fraud, but you're right it isn't Good.

 

[nzpete]

I guarantee that some people considered it to be important. VW sure thought that would be a selling point, as their TV commercials were pitching the TDI "clean diesel."

Perhaps a very few, but considering that there aren't that many diesel options available, I think it is fair to say that the vast majority are in the fuel mileage/gee wiz bucket.

 

[BeetleGo]

VW, you're making it really hard for people, your FANS in particular, to like you right now.

Shame on you.

 

[k1xv]

I see some posters are poo-poohing the fact that the car is not as clean as it was represented to be, saying that buyers bought the car for mileage, not cleanliness.

Well, early on, the Federal government was giving buyers $1300 tax credits on the basis that the car was clean and efficient. Maybe the fact that fraud may have been involved in earning those tax credits should not be overlooked.

 

[nzpete]

VW, you're making it really hard for people, your FANS in particular, to like you right now.
Shame on you.

I just read that you have a "Rocket Chipped" VW TDi. What is that?

 

[donDavide]

No trust for the EPA here, supporting articles/links included. VOA needs to hire the Great One, Mark Levin, he has already kick their butts in court. (Landmark legal) This only make me like VW more. IMHO, current regs to tight. VW improvised, adapted, and overcame! My kids will not attend WVU!
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=overzealous+epa

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=landmark+legal+vs+epa

 

[johnny5ive]

Next steps?

I put a deposit down on a 2016 Golf TDI SEL (my first VW and first diesel!) 10mins before this announcement came out.

I don't even know what to do know but I do know that I'm feeling regret already...

 

[wilcharl]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mike_Van]

It is disappointing to read about VW's admission to a deliberate engineering decision in circumventing a Federal clear air standard with their 'Clean Diesel' engines (irony, anyone?). Cheaters.

Whether EPA standards are too strict is completely beside the point, as VW knew the standards before choosing to certify their engine for this market. There is no question that CRs with DPFs are a vast improvement in an absolute sense, but again, beside the point, given the EPA standard. For years, I drove diesels for their combination of performance & fuel economy, not because I drive a lot. I owned an ALH TDI, but disliked the smoke it made. I sold my 2010 Golf earlier this year not wanting to be stuck with dealing with a failed HPFP or clogged DPF, and because I wanted AWD. I attribute both of these TDI engineering challenges in our market to the quality of US diesel fuel.

Two questions come to mind:

1. What attributes of U.S. #2 Diesel fuel (refining standard, compared to EU diesel), if any, caused VW to resort to devising this coping mechanism?

2. How did BMW & Mercedes deal with meeting compliance in their diesels?

 

[tsingtao]

If you live somewhere that requires emissions, your registration renewal could be suspended until you obtain the recall. Also, if your car goes into the dealer for any tiny bit of service, the dealer may be required to not allow the car to leave their hands without the recall being performed (against your will), which renders your manufacturer's warranty useless.

I could see CARB states requiring that. Thank goodness that the state legislature kept us out of the CARB family.

 

[tsingtao]

S

When I got rid of my 09 Sportwagen I already had to clean the exhaust flap and just started to hear about the HPFP failures. After having a 01M grenade on me, I knew VW's quality history and lack of support for their customers and decided to cut my losses and move on. I will never own another VW.

I have an 09 Jetta with only 57K on it. Was thinking of trading for a new one. Now I am trying to figure how to get out of VW for good.

Someone on Vortex posted that their dealer told them this morning there is a stop sale order coming from VW for all new and used TDIs. That may really screw up the cars resale value.

 

[tomc585]

So does this mean that my DPF is clogging faster?

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Perhaps a very few, but considering that there aren't that many diesel options available, I think it is fair to say that the vast majority are in the fuel mileage/gee wiz bucket.

You're probably right, but that doesn't change the fact that if the allegation is true...this is a big fraud case.

I have an 09 Jetta with only 57K on it. Was thinking of trading for a new one. Now I am trying to figure how to get out of VW for good.

Someone on Vortex posted that their dealer told them this morning there is a stop sale order coming from VW for all new and used TDIs. That may really screw up the cars resale value.

Yup. At least for the time being (until a fix comes out)...the cars in question (including mine) are pretty much worthless, from a resale standpoint.

 

[tomc585]

Someone on Vortex posted that their dealer told them this morning there is a stop sale order coming from VW for all new and used TDIs. That may really screw up the cars resale value.

Or increase the demand and value for private sales for those that dont care!

 

[Jeta Life]

VWs quick admission that they knowingly cheated to me means they are confident in what they did. VW is cooperating with the investigation. My guess is that this will be a quick programming fix.
I still don't see how our Common Rail vehicles are now much worse for the environment, they're much better than CUVs and SUVs. Our carbon footprint is smaller than theirs. Why not go after other car manufacturers ?
This is ridiculous, VW has assured us our vehicles are safe and we don't have to worry about our vehicles being more polluting which most people will now unfortunately think of VW as more polluting.
This to me hurts VWs reputation that's all it does. Wonder if VW will countersue for having their image tarnished. Also wonder the effect on sales. It may even help VW, a lot of people don't know these awesome machines can get 50 mpgs.

 

[bhtooefr]

Someone on Vortex posted that their dealer told them this morning there is a stop sale order coming from VW for all new and used TDIs. That may really screw up the cars resale value.

Source for that: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ble-recall&p=88327069&viewfull=1#post88327069

 

[tsingtao]

At least they owned up to it

Only after the EPA and CARB refused to certify 2016's if they didn't explain what was going on.

 

[Caseyb476]

Autoblog has an article that mentions NOx filtration vs urea injection. My takeaway was that mk7 should be OK since it has the adblue. What am I missing?
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/18/...-18b-fine-unlikely/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016

 

[tsingtao]

Or increase the demand and value for private sales for those that dont care!

I doubt even a a private party would want to pay top dollar until it becomes clear what is going to be done. Uncertainty is what will keep resale value down even for private transactions.

 

[Marc_TDI]

I see some posters are poo-poohing the fact that the car is not as clean as it was represented to be, saying that buyers bought the car for mileage, not cleanliness.

Just admit it...we bought the TDi because they were advertised as 'clean' and get great fuel mileage....I did...it's a 'have your cake and eat it' situation...and we thought we could. It appears otherwise.

Hybrid vehicles are advertised the same way...they tout 'helping the environment' and good fuel mileage...never mind the high carbon footprint
from the manufacturing of those batteries...right?

The biggest fraud is being perpetuated by the hybrid SUV.

I'll be watching this as most of us here will, see what transpires.
If VWoA and VW are guilty of this, then we just may have a case.

I'm not running to sell mine off just yet.

 

[Aquaticmind]

No trust for the EPA here, supporting articles/links included. VOA needs to hire the Great One, Mark Levin, he has already kick their butts in court. (Landmark legal) This only make me like VW more. IMHO, current regs to tight. VW improvised, adapted, and overcame! My kids will not attend WVU!

Ya, that clean water / clean air stuff is bunk... Give me a burning Cuyahoga River, a tall glass of fecal water from the stream, and a day fishing in an acidified northeastern lake any day.. that was sarcasm.

VW already admitted that they did what they are accused of, don't blame the EPA for calling them on it.

http://patch.com/michigan/rochester/epa-volkswagen-intentionally-violated-emissions-rules

What do you have against West Virginia University?

 

[CASVV]

If corporations are "people" then VW CEOs between 09-today should go to jail for FRAUD.
And for those defending VW over this...well, you have been defending the guys who knowingly screw you by selling you a car that they knew was non-compliant. And somehow taking the argument against the EPA is stupid, government-is-always-wrong BS. Regardless of whether these standards make sense or not, they are legal standars, the law of the land. VW knew them, and they knew that WE would be in trouble for their chicanery. And VW didn't care...place the blame where it belongs

 

[Aquaticmind]

I'll be watching this as most of us here will, see what transpires.
...
I'm not running to sell mine off just yet.

Seems like the best course of action.

 

[Aquaticmind]

S

Someone on Vortex posted that their dealer told them this morning there is a stop sale order coming from VW for all new and used TDIs. That may really screw up the cars resale value.

As this forum shows, not everyone cares. Might really help the resale value in the short term!!

 

[bhtooefr]

Honestly, I think that if there is a buyback, hang onto the car, do not take the buyback.

2007-2008 showed us what happens when cheap diesel cars get discontinued - used values skyrocket for all diesel cars all the way back to Mk1 Rabbit diesels.

 

[Aquaticmind]

Only after the EPA and CARB refused to certify 2016's if they didn't explain what was going on.

That would the "big stick" part of the Clean Air Act.

 

[tomo366]

OH NOOOOOOOO The sky is Falling!!! The Sky is Falling!!

 

[deejaaa]

EPA accuses Volkswagen of cheating Clean Air Act, orders recall

forgive me if posted already but didn't find in search mode.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/epa-accuses-volkswagen-cheating-clean-air-act-orders-recall


where I read it:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/epa-may-fine-vw-32788.html

**EDIT**
just saw it, my bad:
http://devforums2.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=448053

 

[nzpete]

VWs quick admission that they knowingly cheated to me means they are confident in what they did. VW is cooperating with the investigation. My guess is that this will be a quick programming fix.
I still don't see how our Common Rail vehicles are now much worse for the environment, they're much better than CUVs and SUVs. Our carbon footprint is smaller than theirs. Why not go after other car manufacturers ?
This is ridiculous, VW has assured us our vehicles are safe and we don't have to worry about our vehicles being more polluting which most people will now unfortunately think of VW as more polluting.
This to me hurts VWs reputation that's all it does. Wonder if VW will countersue for having their image tarnished. Also wonder the effect on sales. It may even help VW, a lot of people don't know these awesome machines can get 50 mpgs.

I lived in Germany for 10 years and their general mindset is to follow the rules. I think you may very well be correct in your assumption that they are cooperating and admitting to the issues because they are confident that they conformed to the letter of the law.
Personally, I'm not bothered by it all. I'm very happy with the performance of my vehicle and the efficiency of the engine. If it is proven to be outside of the BHO administration EPA standards, then I will simply avoid the dealership and either service the vehicle myself, or find a competent and qualified import shop to perform routine maintenance and service.

 

[DeliveryValve]

Honestly, I think that if there is a buyback, hang onto the car, do not take the buyback.

2007-2008 showed us what happens when cheap diesel cars get discontinued - used values skyrocket for all diesel cars all the way back to Mk1 Rabbit diesels.

Oh yeah, So true.. One could sell their 2004-2005 Passat TDI for the price they paid brand new in 2007-2008. Amazing..


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