Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[Mrrogers1]

People who are just not driving their "polluting TDI's because of this is just plum crazy to me...

So if I have my notes right here, we're talking about *roughly 500,000 diesel cars (on US roads) in the last 6yr out of the *approx 1-3% max of ALL cars (on US roads) that are *approx 10-40% more FE than *most cars AND trucks (many many trucks) on US roads. Do I have that right?? ?

I mean, let's be honest here, this is a "corporate conduct" and "responsibility" story, to make it a "pollution" story like the TDI's emissions are a sign of the end times is pretty far fetched but it does look good in headlines, especially for the EPA....

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[tariq]

Yes. Both of my daughters have mild asthma. Asthma's a virtual epidemic in urban settings, and NOx is directly contributing to that. I live in a part of the country where the smog settles over the landscape and we have routine "spare the air" days. The past couple of days, I've seen a LOT fewer TDI's on the roads around here. I parked mine and have switched back to driving my MINI Cooper S or biking wherever I need to go. I love my TDI, but I have a responsibility to my kids and to my neighborhood to only drive it when I absolutely have to. If I can get by without using it at the moment, I will.

And yes, when I do drive it, I feel a bit ashamed to drive it. People who generally do things that they know are causing harm to others, but they do them anyway for selfish purposes, giving f-all to everybody, are generally considered to be ***holes. I don't want to be an ***hole. I have alternatives to transport, I'll take them when I can. I won't blame others cause I know some people don't have alternatives. IF that's weird, then I am ok with being weird.

Agree. I don't see how I could consciously drive my TDI through the stop and go pick up line at my Childs elementary school in the knowledge that I might be poisoning all the kids standing outside, waiting to be picked up. I am ashamed to drive the car now and the stigma that it's polluting on a level higher than many large, dirty diesels on the road makes me sick...and I'm not the only TDI driver in my area that feels the same. Complete betrayal on the part of VW. I think this will kill the TDI brand and diesels in the U.S.

 

[pknopp]

I feel sorry for all the workers at the VW plant in Tennessee along with the suppliers and dealership employees. They will likely be facing massive layoffs. Lots of jobs will be lost due to the effects from this. Its easy to bash VW and some of you wanting them to crumble but its good for the country if they survive and come back strong.

I once sold VW's. (We had Honda and Mazda also) but I'm glad I'm not right now.

 

[jimbo1mcm]

Hey Matthius. Start der Koffee Pot. You have a long weekend.

 

[wilder11354]

Its a political football, the monkeys pass the ball back and forth. VW GOT caught on EPA test results....makes one wonder... do the same whiz kids test all makers Eco/High MPG cars for PCM switching? Keeping my TDI, and don't give a rats Butt about having it fixed... like what i bought it for!!

 

[IFRCFI]

Yeah, I can't help you there. The MPG looks to be roughly the same (27/45). It's possible they just have better engineering than VW does (but... Chevy?), or that they too cheated. But that is pure speculation.

I hope the Cruze passes with flying colors. Good medicine for all the VW fanboys who bashed it as inadequate and crude. Karma.


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[Joe TDI]

Agree. I don't see how I could consciously drive my TDI through the stop and go pick up line at my Childs elementary school in the knowledge that I might be poisoning all the kids standing outside, waiting to be picked up. I am ashamed to drive the car now and the stigma that it's polluting on a level higher than many large, dirty diesels on the road makes me sick...and I'm not the only TDI driver in my area that feels the same. Complete betrayal on the part of VW. I think this will kill the TDI brand and diesels in the U.S.

You are right..... If you have parked your sport wagon and dont feel right driving it you shouldn't.... you should get rid of it.... I have a 2013 Jetta sedan with 31K miles 2.5 5 cylinder gasser that gets 31mpg highway that I will trade you straight up .... or I have a nice 2013 Skyline Nomad hybrid travel trailer that I would also trade straight up for your JSW.....Let me know

JOE

 

[philngrayce]

Agree. I don't see how I could consciously drive my TDI through the stop and go pick up line at my Childs elementary school in the knowledge that I might be poisoning all the kids standing outside, waiting to be picked up. I am ashamed to drive the car now and the stigma that it's polluting on a level higher than many large, dirty diesels on the road makes me sick...and I'm not the only TDI driver in my area that feels the same. Complete betrayal on the part of VW. I think this will kill the TDI brand and diesels in the U.S.

I might suggest you park the car and walk over to the pickup place. All the kids breathing gasoline exhaust isn't really a good thing either. And you'll probably save time.

 

[tariq]

I might suggest you park the car and walk over to the pickup place. All the kids breathing gasoline exhaust isn't really a good thing either. And you'll probably save time.

It may not be a good thing either but it does not change the fact that I thought I was on the complete, opposite end of that polluting spectrum with my TDI (attempting to be a part of the solution, not the problem).

 

[tariq]

You are right..... If you have parked your sport wagon and dont feel right driving it you shouldn't.... you should get rid of it.... I have a 2013 Jetta sedan with 31K miles 2.5 5 cylinder gasser that gets 31mpg highway that I will trade you straight up .... or I have a nice 2013 Skyline Nomad hybrid travel trailer that I would also trade straight up for your JSW.....Let me know

JOE

Unfortunately, I think the stigma of driving any VW will be tarnished for a while. Hell, I still avoid Exxon and BP stations... The VW brand has been severely damaged.

 

[philngrayce]

I think no matter what you drive there (maybe excepting an electric, maybe not) you are still part of the problem.

Really, nothing personal at all here. I'm continually amazed at how many parents wait in long lines to pick up tha kids. Some of those parents live right down the block or, literally, across the street.

 

[whipwarrior]

Anybody got any good bumper sticker ideas yet on this?

Not-so-Clean Diesel

Clean Diesel Not Inside (a-la Intel Inside)

Diesel Outlaw

Dirty Dub

Kiss my ash, EPA

I survived Dieselgate

________________

I like this one:

(powered by recycled dinosaurs)

 

[shrifty]

Unfortunately, I think the stigma of driving any VW will be tarnished for a while. Hell, I still avoid Exxon and BP stations... The VW brand has been severely damaged.

Give it a month, no one will remember any of this.

 

[ChrisB009]

My main concern is the loss of power and MPG. This is the reason why I buy VW diesel powered cars. If either of the two drop, which I believe they will after the mandatory recall, I won't be happy. Also seems there was a case where VW decided to suppress information for over two years - regarding ignition lock out hack-ability. Just came up last month. Lets face it every car manufacture has their issues and problems but to try to cover them up or get around government standards is a totally different situation. In this case we'll be holding the keys to a car that's going to drop like a rock in value and will probably end up getting about half the MPG and power VW advertised. I like VW's diesel powered cars and have owned several over the years but due to unresolved issues and deception I seriously doubt I'll ever buy another VW vehicle again.

 

[tariq]

I think no matter what you drive there (maybe excepting an electric, maybe not) you are still part of the problem.

Really, nothing personal at all here. I'm continually amazed at how many parents wait in long lines to pick up tha kids. Some of those parents live right down the block or, literally, across the street.

Certainly all situations are different. I often have a sleeping toddler in the car while waiting. If he's awake, I would often park and walk. I can certainly see how an electric vehicle - possibly a hybrid- would be preferable in this situation now.

 

[tariq]

Give it a month, no one will remember any of this.

I hope you are right. I think VW could do a lot to help that with a quick response for owners and some sort of grand, industry-leading/ long term commitment to the environment.

TDI owners are a diverse group - I think this is very evident in this thread.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I'm continually amazed at how many parents wait in long lines to pick up tha kids..

With the engines running the whole time. It is SUCH a bad example to set.

 

[Big Red]

They are still great cars, nothing has changed about the car. We bought cars that were fun to drive, had power and good fuel efficiency.
If we are trying to do good by the environment, then the fact the fuel efficiency is good should be good enough. Be glad you are driving a sedan and not a pickup or SUV that is blowing through gas and creating way more pollution per mile of travel.

If we must change our cars and don't like them after. Just chip tune the power back in. The car will still last over 300,000 miles and be a good long term value.

We need to all remember there are all kinds of causes of pollution. How our government chooses to regulate a specific type of pollution and to what level is a complex and crooked process. Just find a way to comply to the laws of our land and do what you feel is right to be a contributing member of society.
All this talk of pollution control and no talk of ride sharing, reducing the number of trips, walking/biking instead of driving etc. etc. These changes would have a far larger impact on the environment than a few tweaks to what comes out the tail pipe.

My main concern is the loss of power and MPG. This is the reason why I buy VW diesel powered cars. If either of the two drop, which I believe they will after the mandatory recall, I won't be happy. Also seems there was a case where VW decided to suppress information for over two years - regarding ignition lock out hack-ability. Just came up last month. Lets face it every car manufacture has their issues and problems but to try to cover them up or get around government standards is a totally different situation. In this case we'll be holding the keys to a car that's going to drop like a rock in value and will probably end up getting about half the MPG and power VW advertised. I like VW's diesel powered cars and have owned several over the years but due to unresolved issues and deception I seriously doubt I'll ever buy another VW vehicle again.

 

[Joe TDI]

Unfortunately, I think the stigma of driving any VW will be tarnished for a while. Hell, I still avoid Exxon and BP stations... The VW brand has been severely damaged.

Ok cool.... do you want to trade your TDI for my camper then?

JOE

 

[PC Dave]

An unfortunate name for a member of VW's Supervisory Board:

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/s...CapId=377732&previousTitle=VOLKSWAGEN AG-PREF

 

[Sooner]

I think no matter what you drive there (maybe excepting an electric, maybe not) you are still part of the problem.

Really, nothing personal at all here. I'm continually amazed at how many parents wait in long lines to pick up tha kids. Some of those parents live right down the block or, literally, across the street.

Yes, We all want energy even Mr. Gore travels with abandon with his carbon foot print. Where do electric cars get their energy? From the local power plant. If that is coal you are bad. If that is fission you are bad, if that is natural gas that is cracking you are bad etc. did you hear about the solar plane that crashed due to cloudiness or the blackout in Denmark when the wind stopped blowing? One of those statements is true.
In seriousness, the 2009 engine is very non compliant, the 2013 Passat with urea moderate, the 2015 with a new engine family ...maybe not so bad. The worst modern VW is better than the older smokers you still see going down the road. 15 grams of NOx per capita is not the end of the world. We produced 100,000 grams per year last year as God ole Americans.
This is an over reaction by an agenda oriented group to retire all internal combustion engines.
Everyone is mad because VW lied about it and they cheated. It was stupid, greedy and wrong but that NOx standard of .04 gram per km is designed to regulate diesel away and now they have a stick.

 

[15 A3 TDI]

Give it a month, no one will remember any of this.

This time I'm not sure about that. I think it may be (shockingly) easier for the public and the press to forgive the automakers when people die...the rationale being "they couldn't have intended people to die." Here, it looks like they (or someone, at least) intended to deceive.

My main concern is the loss of power and MPG. This is the reason why I buy VW diesel powered cars. If either of the two drop, which I believe they will after the mandatory recall, I won't be happy. Also seems there was a case where VW decided to suppress information for over two years - regarding ignition lock out hack-ability. Just came up last month. Lets face it every car manufacture has their issues and problems but to try to cover them up or get around government standards is a totally different situation. In this case we'll be holding the keys to a car that's going to drop like a rock in value and will probably end up getting about half the MPG and power VW advertised. I like VW's diesel powered cars and have owned several over the years but due to unresolved issues and deception I seriously doubt I'll ever buy another VW vehicle again.

Shared by many.

With the engines running the whole time. It is SUCH a bad example to set.

What, are they supposed to sit in the car with no AC or heat running?! I understand this frustration. I turn mine off for longer waits...sometimes at stoplights.

They are still great cars, nothing has changed about the car. We bought cars that were fun to drive, had power and good fuel efficiency.
If we are trying to do good by the environment, then the fact the fuel efficiency is good should be good enough. Be glad you are driving a sedan and not a pickup or SUV that is blowing through gas and creating way more pollution per mile of travel.

If we must change our cars and don't like them after. Just chip tune the power back in. The car will still last over 300,000 miles and be a good long term value.

We need to all remember there are all kinds of causes of pollution. How our government chooses to regulate a specific type of pollution and to what level is a complex and crooked process. Just find a way to comply to the laws of our land and do what you feel is right to be a contributing member of society.
All this talk of pollution control and no talk of ride sharing, reducing the number of trips, walking/biking instead of driving etc. etc. These changes would have a far larger impact on the environment than a few tweaks to what comes out the tail pipe.

Tuning may not be an option everywhere...smog police gonna check ur emissions privilege, bro!

 

[bhtooefr]

What, are they supposed to sit in the car with no AC or heat running?! I understand this frustration. I turn mine off for longer waits...sometimes at stoplights.

Or just don't drive their kid to school.

Walking, cycling, or taking the bus (depending on what options are practical in the area) would be better choices than driving a personal car to school.

 

[15 A3 TDI]

Or just don't drive their kid to school.

Walking, cycling, or taking the bus (depending on what options are practical in the area) would be better choices than driving a personal car to school.

Don't get me started on the idiots in LA that get on the freeway and drive for 3 exits to take their kids to school. Hello, surface streets, at the least?!

 

[AntonLargiader]

Or just don't drive their kid to school.

Walking, cycling, or taking the bus (depending on what options are practical in the area) would be better choices than driving a personal car to school.

Just started riding my kid to preschool on a bike this week... pure coincidence.

 

[hybridkiller]

Possible but highly unlikely. Winterkorn liked to brag that he "knows every bolt" on VW cars. Someone other than the peon that did the actual programming had to know. They sure know now.

Maybe the guy(s) at the top knew, maybe he/they didn't. But if you really believe that the CEO of a global corporation with a (pre-crisis) market cap of $126 billion, over half a million employees, and something north of $200 billion in annual revenues - if you think he personally reviews every single engineering decision regarding every make and model of vehicle produced across 12 separate brands - then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[owr084]

 

[nakkers]

So how does my 2014 TDI compare relative to pre 2009 TDI for emissions?

NOx is 10 to 40 times more than spec. Ok. How does the actual number compare to the old standard?

I'm not looking to forgive VW or defend them.

Just trying to get a feel for how bad it really is.

I love classic cars and ride motorcycles so, I own and operate vehicles without emission controls or dated tech.

On the flip side, I don't drive any of them nearly as much as the VW. I'm at 60,000 Kms since Jan 2 of this year. ?


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[bhtooefr]

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4898832&postcount=14

2009-2014 Jetta/Golf/Beetle/A3s are literally 1970s bad on NOx. (On other emissions they're quite good, mind you.)

 

[MrSprdSheet]

How 'bout this one:

"VW is Ob-NOx-ious"