Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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hybridkiller

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Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Location
Southeastern US
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2012 Golf DSG
I myself don't blame them for what they did entirely. The would have spent millions if not billions developing a new motor that can't meet the standards of North America and maybe others.
Engineer: you want it to pass. Here you go boss. In all its 100hp 20mpg glory....
Management : fine, whatever. I'm fired if we don't get this f'ing thing In a Jetta so I'm gonna have someone mess around so the big cheese thinks we're doing something.......
It's real life problems not the big corporate greed/ deception many think it is. I Imo.
+1

Somebody here gets it.
 

legendman

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Location
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2006 Jetta 5sp
I got this email today from the dealer I purchased my TDI from...

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]In light of recent events, we wanted to take a moment and reach out to all of our valued and loyal customers that may own a Volkswagen TDI affected by this emissions situation. As soon as Volkswagen announces the solution and what vehicles are affected, we will be right here to help step by step towards a resolution. Although we do not condone their actions, we are confident that Volkswagen will take the necessary steps to correct their emissions inconsistencies and work hard towards regaining all of our trust and hopefully your continued business.

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]With that said, there have been some questions/concerns from those who own TDI vehicles and though a remedy has not been announced yet, we do have answers for some of your inquiries.


Q: What TDI models are possibly affected?
2009-2015 Jetta, 2009-2014 Jetta Sportwagen, 2010-2015 Golf, 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 2012-2015 Beetle Coupe & Convertible, and 2012-2015 Passat.[/FONT]


Q: Is my TDI safe to drive?
Yes, your vehicle is safe to drive! The situation under investigation is NOT safety related, but specific to the emissions output of the vehicle.


Q: Will the emissions be harmful to my health?
No, the EPA has stated that these vehicles do not present a safety hazard.

Reference - EPA Statement: “Car owners should know that although these vehicles have emissions exceeding standards, these violations do not present a safety hazard and the cars remain legal to drive and resell. Owners of cars of these models and years do not need to take any action at this time.”


Q: Will the fix decrease fuel economy or change the performance of my vehicle?
Volkswagen has not released any details yet, but they are striving to maintain both economy and performance with their remedy.


Q: Can I have my vehicle fixed now?
No. Volkswagen does not have a specific remedy just yet. Please know your vehicle is still safe to drive and there is no necessary actions for the consumer at this time.


Q: What is the fix and how long until a repair is available?
Volkswagen is working to develop a remedy and will notify the consumer when it's available. A specific fix and time frame have not been announced yet.


Q: Am I at risk for not passing the emissions test of my state?
We don’t anticipate that customers will have any issues with state registration or inspection. If a customer does express an issue regarding state inspections, please have them reach out to Customer CARE at 800-822-8987.


Langan Volkswagen of Vernon is dedicated to helping our customers resolve this issue. We will be announcing more information as it is released to keep you informed every step of the way. If your question(s) is not answered here, please feel free to contact us to see if we can help. Thank you so much for your patience and understanding.


Sincerely,
Langan Volkswagen of Vernon
[/FONT]
 

tsingtao

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Location
Phoenix, AZ
TDI
2016 Mazda 3 Hatchback 2009 Jetta TDI--Bought back 12/21/16
Because:

1. When you want to trade it in, the dealer laughs.

2. When you want to sell it, everyone laughs.

3. When people see the TDI badge, they laugh.

People: If you don't think the value of your vehicle has dropped into the basement you are deluding yourself. We are driving vehicles that have no resale or trade in value anymore.

Still think everything will be okay if they reflash the ECU?
Saw a 3 week old TDI Passat in the parking garage at work today. Owner backed it in, probably to hide the fact that it was a TDI and the embarrassment that they just bought it.
 

hybridkiller

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Location
Southeastern US
TDI
2012 Golf DSG
Because the payoff on the '12 JSW tdi is $15,897 but current market value is only $13,500. I suspect the value of the JSW will continue to drop rapidly, so if I can convince a dealer to give me 16K for it and come home with a '16 GSW tsi with minimal change in the payment I'll do it
You're in panic mode, so unless you are a world class poker player, the dealer is going to use your fear against you, maybe even get you to take LESS than current book. Don't be so sure that this won't all blow over and be forgotten 6 months from now.

Don't be like all those people who got out of the stock market in 2009 - the bottom of anything is NOT the time to sell.
 

tsingtao

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Phoenix, AZ
TDI
2016 Mazda 3 Hatchback 2009 Jetta TDI--Bought back 12/21/16
That does not sound good for VW, and perhaps for diesel in general.
"During his time at GM, Lutz said he was constantly asking his engineers how Volkswagen could make diesel engines perform so well and pass environmental tests. "They said, 'We can't answer that question.'" He said: "Honda asked the same question. They couldn't figure it out either because with near identical engines and hardware from the same suppliers, they could not get themselves to pass."
Lutz said the extra expenses associated with diesel engines basically don't pay off in better gas mileage. "You've got about a $2,000 to $3,000 cost penalty for the engine. And then you've got another $4,000 to 5,000 cost penalty for all the emissions equipment."
"Diesel is being legislated out of existence because the emission requirements for diesel are becoming so onerous," he argued. "Diesels almost no longer make any sense."



VW faces 'about the worst situation': Ex-GM exec

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/25/vw-faces-about-the-worst-situation-ex-gm-exec.html
 

bmali98

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Location
Dunsford Ontario
TDI
O4 golf pd auto
Saw a 3 week old TDI Passat in the parking garage at work today. Owner backed it in, probably to hide the fact that it was a TDI and the embarrassment that they just bought it.
Ha! Put my number on his windshield. I will give him an offer. Sounds like the type that would take one.
 

totitan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagon TDI
You're in panic mode, so unless you are a world class poker player, the dealer is going to use your fear against you, maybe even get you to take LESS than current book. Don't be so sure that this won't all blow over and be forgotten 6 months from now.
Don't be like all those people who got out of the stock market in 2009 - the bottom of anything is NOT the time to sell.
Sorry but that wont happen.
1) I used to be a broker, so I know the game as well as, if not better than they do.
2) When I buy cars I deal only with fleet or internet managers, preferably those who can write their own paper.
3) I do all the negotiating from home and once we agree on the details they email me a proposal. If nothing changed, I approve it, go spend about 30 mins at dealer signing docs that are already prepared and drive home in a new car.
 

bmali98

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Dunsford Ontario
TDI
O4 golf pd auto
Don't be like all those people who got out of the stock market in 2009 - the bottom of anything is NOT the time to sell.
Funny, buying vw stock came up at work today. We were thinking now would be the time, or in the near future. This is a measurable bet to make. Either it's going to be good news and a quick come back to "business as usual and thanks for the expensive advertising"or bad news and a minor loss as people will be over it by then anyway.
 

Sunnyb

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Location
MI
TDI
2015 GSW
"During his time at GM, Lutz said he was constantly asking his engineers how Volkswagen could make diesel engines perform so well and pass environmental tests. "They said, 'We can't answer that question.'" He said: "Honda asked the same question. They couldn't figure it out either because with near identical engines and hardware from the same suppliers, they could not get themselves to pass."
Lutz said the extra expenses associated with diesel engines basically don't pay off in better gas mileage. "You've got about a $2,000 to $3,000 cost penalty for the engine. And then you've got another $4,000 to 5,000 cost penalty for all the emissions equipment."
"Diesel is being legislated out of existence because the emission requirements for diesel are becoming so onerous," he argued. "Diesels almost no longer make any sense."



VW faces 'about the worst situation': Ex-GM exec

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/25/vw-faces-about-the-worst-situation-ex-gm-exec.html
Meaning, those of you that sell your car might regret it. Especially, if a diesel isn't available anymore.
 
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ibanix

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Location
New Hartford, Connecticut
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd
Haven't been active here in years, as I had to sell my '03 TDI some time ago (I miss it).

Came back to see the commentary on the current VW scandal. Am disappointed that it has turned into a political mudslinging contest. I thought TDIClub was better than that :/
 

Sunnyb

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
MI
TDI
2015 GSW
It evolves the EPA, it's impossible not to involve politics.
 
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ibanix

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Location
New Hartford, Connecticut
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd
I got this email today from the dealer I purchased my TDI from...
Q: Will the emissions be harmful to my health?
No, the EPA has stated that these vehicles do not present a safety hazard.
Geeze, that's just wrong. Why do you think this is such a big deal? The NOx emissions are responsible for both smog and respiratory problems. If it wasn't a problem, it wouldn't be regulated, and this would be no issue.
 

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI
Maybe this question was already answered but I don't have time to scroll through 305 pages ..lol

How is it that VW had to cheat to pass emissions to keep the performance? How is the Chevy Cruz, BMW 328D and MB E250 able to do it with same or better performance and same or better MPG's?
 

legendman

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Location
19
TDI
2006 Jetta 5sp
Geeze, that's just wrong. Why do you think this is such a big deal? The NOx emissions are responsible for both smog and respiratory problems. If it wasn't a problem, it wouldn't be regulated, and this would be no issue.
It's not what I think, did you fail to read the first line of my post?
 

goodysgotacuda

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Location
Denton, TX
TDI
'12 Goft TDI/6spd & Jetta TDI/DSG
Who's ready to start a new TDI lemons racing series with all of these non-compliant cars that aren't worth anything?!
 

Singuy

Active member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Location
US
TDI
Beetle
Funny, buying vw stock came up at work today. We were thinking now would be the time, or in the near future. This is a measurable bet to make. Either it's going to be good news and a quick come back to "business as usual and thanks for the expensive advertising"or bad news and a minor loss as people will be over it by then anyway.
Just think how it's possible for VW to make any kind of announcement in the future that will be good news.

1. "Looks like we have a computer fix that will maintain the original performance!"(sounds like fantasy)"
2. "EPA just announced that they wrongfully accused VW"
3. yeah I'm running out of ideas

Any additional news will have a 99% chance of being bad news, or worst news. Either "we can't come up with a fix so we have to do a buy back"..or "we came up with a fix but it will kill your performance...but here's we will extend your warranty by 2 years!"

If the fix was easy, then VW wouldn't need to cheat in the first place! It was easier for VW to get their engineers to write some really complex computer codes that measure all sorts of perimeters and commit fraud in a global scale that could potentially bring the company down than to fix the initial.
I believe stocks will massive dip again once they announce the actual fix..then dip again when they announce how they didn't meet their sales goal..THEN you can think about buying their stocks.

Oh yeah..lets not forget that they MAY find their 240HP diesels to be dirty too..so there goes porsches and audis as well.
 
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tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Geeze, that's just wrong. Why do you think this is such a big deal? The NOx emissions are responsible for both smog and respiratory problems. If it wasn't a problem, it wouldn't be regulated, and this would be no issue.
No, that's just *right* and speaks to the absurdity of the EPA regs. 40 times darn near nothing is still pretty close to darn near nothing, IE negligible, no measurable effect, nix nada nee nothing!

- Tim
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Just think how it's possible for VW to make any kind of announcement in the future that will be good news.

1. "Looks like we have a computer fix that will maintain the original performance!"(sounds like fantasy)"
2. "EPA just announced that they wrongfully accused VW"
3. yeah I'm running out of ideas

Any additional news will have a 99% chance of being bad news, or worst news. Either "we can't come up with a fix so we have to do a buy back"..or "we came up with a fix but it will kill your performance...but here's we will extend your warranty by 2 years!"

If the fix was easy, then VW wouldn't need to cheat in the first place! It was easier for VW to get their engineers to write some really complex computer codes that measure all sorts of perimeters and commit fraud in a global scale that could potentially bring the company down than to fix the initial.
I believe stocks will massive dip again once they announce the actual fix..then dip again when they announce how they didn't meet their sales goal..THEN you can think about buying their stocks.

Oh yeah..lets not forget that they MAY find their 240HP diesels to be dirty too..so there goes porsches and audis as well.
How about 4. They negotiate a fine with the EPA, they fix the SCR cars (easy) and as part of the deal the EPA issues a one-time exemption for the LNT cars.

Of course until we know for sure, a stock purchase may be premature.
 

ibanix

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Location
New Hartford, Connecticut
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd
No, that's just *right* and speaks to the absurdity of the EPA regs. 40 times darn near nothing is still pretty close to darn near nothing, IE negligible, no measurable effect, nix nada nee nothing!

- Tim

I apologize. I wasn't aware that you were an authority in pollution control, emissions standards, and health impacts thereof.
 

JBell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
None
TDI
None
Geeze, that's just wrong. Why do you think this is such a big deal? The NOx emissions are responsible for both smog and respiratory problems. If it wasn't a problem, it wouldn't be regulated, and this would be no issue.

Never mind the rest of the emissions that are near zero. Let's talk about what gasoline vehicles emit? Why are you so hellbent on NOx? Everything causes respiratory problems.


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JBell

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Location
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TDI
None
No, that's just *right* and speaks to the absurdity of the EPA regs. 40 times darn near nothing is still pretty close to darn near nothing, IE negligible, no measurable effect, nix nada nee nothing!

- Tim

x2.

Couldn't have said it better myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bmali98

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Location
Dunsford Ontario
TDI
O4 golf pd auto
Just think how it's possible for VW to make any kind of announcement in the future that will be good news.

Oh yeah..lets not forget that they MAY find their 240HP diesels to be dirty too..so there goes porsches and audis as well.
Good info if it's good info. I truthfully know nothing about stocks and I'm not much for betting. I usually bet "on sure" things so if I get into stocks that's where I'm putting it. And when I guess.


Good news is it's not herpes it's dried strawberry jam. That's where I swoop in with my $1000 and in a matter of a week turn it into a billion dollars. At least that's what the first half of wolf of Wall Street taught me.
 
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ibanix

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Location
New Hartford, Connecticut
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd
Never mind the rest of the emissions that are near zero. Let's talk about what gasoline vehicles emit? Why are you so hellbent on NOx? Everything causes respiratory problems.


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Hellbent? I was just quoting the dealer report the other poster had supplied.

Engines produce lots of different pollutants - CO2, the nitrous oxides (NO and NO2, collectively NOx), VOCs, carbon monoxide, and large particulates. Different engines produce different types and quantities. Diesel engines produce more NOx than most petrol engines. And so it is the harder thing to reduce.
 

JBell

Veteran Member
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Location
None
TDI
None
Correct. How many diesels are there compared to gasoline motors running? I think people are focusing on the wrong thing here.

The right thing is how absurd the EPA is getting. The requirements are going to drive the costs of Diesel engines through the roof. Which will increase the cost of transportation for just about everything we buy and consume.


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pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
I've decided im pretty much done worrying and stressing about this. I will comeback here when VW announces a solution, and we can all debate it then. Until then, have fun with the crazy people.
I'm feeling the same. I mean, we can all speculate all we want, but can we really proactively do something about it before VW announces the remedy? Not really. And... I'm not sifting through 50+ pages of more comments since I last posted in a hotel room. I had to finish up a 2500 mile road trip (of which the car performed beautifully, having been running about 12-14 hours at a time without having the engine shut off).
 
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