Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations
- Thread starter TDIpilot4u
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lol. Why is that meme so popular ? Note: it is not even close to being true.
I PM'd ya
Best response ever!!!! this thread should be closed now. too many drinking the kool-aide out their.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Their advantage is lessened for sure, but there's a couple advantages even on the highway.
First off, if it's a Toyota-style hybrid, the Power Split Device gearbox is a rather interesting one, in that it is a CVT (which can improve efficiency by always selecting the optimal RPM for the requested power) that has no wear items, no slipping elements, and nothing that depends on friction to work - it's merely a planetary gearset being used as a CVT. And, it's decently efficient, IIRC, compared to belt CVTs.
Then, the engine can be smaller in a hybrid, improving efficiency by reducing pumping losses. It need only be sized for cruising power plus a reserve to recharge the battery, then under acceleration, the electric motor can supplement the undersized engine to provide adequate acceleration.
Finally, you still have to stop to get off the freeway, and you still have to accelerate to get back on, and the hybrid system will help a little bit there with regenerative braking.
ChemMan
Veteran Member
Why would a retrofit SCR system be less economically viable than a buyback? Sure it would be insanely costly but more costly than paying $15K to $20K per vehicle buying them back?
I agree with you that if a reflash would have solved it, then VW would have solved in back in April. I mean at that point they were desperate to get rid of this problem. I can't see them holding back knowing that if it failed they were looking at ... well exactly what happened.
powerdrive
Member
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- Jul 21, 2003
Well of course in our litigeous society and just from the general responses here there will be attempts at class action suits as vultures, uh, I meant to type lawyers scramble to get in on the action. Whether actual damages can be proved and if allowed to proceed is the question. At most VW may agree to hand out coupons of a couple of hundred towards the purchase of a new car to current owners. With beaucoup restrictions like current inventory on the dealers lot with an expiration date before new models come out. The posts here are entertaining. I have not been this entertained by the TDI Club in years.
Clearly countries with stricter emissions standards have less air pollution, and therefore less health problems: http://aqicn.org/map/world/
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Thanks for the link.
I rarely disagree with the work of the national labs, but this article treats the embedded energy of electricity and steam as equivalent in the source energy stream. That should give you pause. Recalculate presuming about 30% thermo efficiency to make electricity and then tell me if you want to continue this discussion.
immortalmk2
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- 2012 VW Golf TDI Manual w/Tech (His), 2013 VW Golf TDI DSG w/Tech (Hers)
Welcome. I think the consensus is that an ECU reflash will lower emissions at the expense of fuel economy and performance. How big the impact will be is still a question. The recall last year attempted this fix but the EPA and CARB weren't satisfied. Maybe VW will attempt another more drastic reflash that satisfies emissions with a still greater hit to performance and economy.
I'm sure retrofitting SCR (i.e., adding AdBlue) to the cars is technically feasible if cost is no object. But we don't live in that world, so don't count on an SCR retrofit unless VW is compelled to do it or the corporate moneymen decide it's the lowest cost option after eliminating many other more likely options.
pfennig
Active member
It is entertaining in a sick kind of way -- I'd be less sick about it if my TDI wasn't still under warranty and thus more likely (I think) to get hit by the mandatory recall and thus 'detune' when getting some other service.
If one doesn't plan to litigate by ones self, is there any disadvantage to signing on to a class action on this though? I'll get a pittance from a class action, which is exactly a pittance more than I'll get if I don't participate in a class action.
But which class action? How is one to tell? Does it make a difference (aren't they all going to be combined eventually?)
xnjboyx7
Member
Trade in on TDISportwagen
....went to my local VW dealer to trade in my 2011 Sportwagen TDI. I was basically laughed out of the dealership. Sorry mister customer your TDI is not welcome here today. We are not taking trade ins on your model.
....went to my local VW dealer to trade in my 2011 Sportwagen TDI. I was basically laughed out of the dealership. Sorry mister customer your TDI is not welcome here today. We are not taking trade ins on your model.
powerdrive
Member
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- Jul 21, 2003
He is probably driving his 2000 jetta and his wife is probably still driving her 99 new beetle and or his KTM bikes Rob. And he probably does not have the time nor the inclination to play in this sandbox the TDI Club has degenerated into. All good characters have a foil to bounce off on, without Ric he would simply be a shrill shell of the poster by whom we were so entertained. Ya never know who may come out of the shadows though.
Sagebrush, I get it from personal experience and knowledge of physics. I drove a hybrid Civic (granted not the best designed hybrid) from LA to SF and it got in the high 30s driving the same route and style as I do in my TDI which gets in the high 40s. If I back off I get low 50s in my TDI.
E=mv2, Carnot rules and Diesel beats Otto. Can you explain how adding a bunch of machinery like a battery and electric motor which become dead weight after the 100 miles it takes to discharge the batteries could possibly improve efficiency on the freeway at a constant speed?
Yes, by recovering energy normally radiated away as heat during braking, and using it to help accelerate, hybrids get much better stop and go mileage, plus they can charge while parked and augment the fuel. But they have a slight disadvantage at steady speed due to extra weight, and all otto cycle engines are inherently less efficient than diesel cycle engines. Not to mention the increased efficiency of refining diesel.
So now you know where that meme comes from: physics.
E=mv2, Carnot rules and Diesel beats Otto. Can you explain how adding a bunch of machinery like a battery and electric motor which become dead weight after the 100 miles it takes to discharge the batteries could possibly improve efficiency on the freeway at a constant speed?
Yes, by recovering energy normally radiated away as heat during braking, and using it to help accelerate, hybrids get much better stop and go mileage, plus they can charge while parked and augment the fuel. But they have a slight disadvantage at steady speed due to extra weight, and all otto cycle engines are inherently less efficient than diesel cycle engines. Not to mention the increased efficiency of refining diesel.
So now you know where that meme comes from: physics.
roostre
Veteran Member
Along with VW who by their own choice are “over-reacting” by discontinuing sales of existing TDIs and dumping some of their top talent to be recruited by other firms.
Prepare for more “over-reacting” by VW after their board meeting tomorrow.
VW’s dealers and the dealer’s employees are currently the most affected by Dieselgate. There are not many dealers except in areas with large populations. Some dealers may not survive without a quick fix and return to normal sales.
If the fix to meet emission standards was as simple as updating the ECU to always be in “dyno test” mode, then VW would probably have successfully done this already. Unfortunately we may never know the full story or potential future mechanical consequences (in addition to performance and fuel economy losses) once our vehicles are “fixed”.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
On the freeway, the vast majority of power demand is due to aerodynamic losses, not rolling friction, meaning that the slight weight disadvantage has a very, very slight impact indeed (where it hurts the most is actually the city, and regenerative braking can't get all the losses from that back), and can be made up for with efficiencies elsewhere.
And, the Civic Hybrid is really a terrible hybrid system that gives much less benefit (it uses a conventional, inefficient CVT) - all you're getting is the engine downsizing, and IIRC the Civic Hybrid used the same size engine as the regular Civic, so...
And, the Civic Hybrid is really a terrible hybrid system that gives much less benefit (it uses a conventional, inefficient CVT) - all you're getting is the engine downsizing, and IIRC the Civic Hybrid used the same size engine as the regular Civic, so...
Chris
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- Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, USA
croppz
Veteran Member
What did you think was going to happen and why would you think they would take it? They want stuff they can resell, they can't resell TDIs right now.
croppz
Veteran Member
Holy crap, nobody cares what your prius gets.
We all bought TDIs so we wouldnt look like idiots driving a prius anyway right? Haha. I'll take my "earth killing machine" over a prius any day of the week.
OH yeah, I'm on pace for a 675 mile tank of fuel.
We all bought TDIs so we wouldnt look like idiots driving a prius anyway right? Haha. I'll take my "earth killing machine" over a prius any day of the week.
OH yeah, I'm on pace for a 675 mile tank of fuel.
Karmann_20v
Well-known member
What exactly can be taken from that article?
xnjboyx7
Member
Discounting TDI?
There are no discounts, there are no sales of TDI allowed from 2009- 2016 at any US VW dealership including CPO cars.
There are no discounts, there are no sales of TDI allowed from 2009- 2016 at any US VW dealership including CPO cars.
busdrvr
Veteran Member
Hope you have a good guru to wrench on it. Or do it yourself. I bet the next 25k will be painful if you keep it.
GnJ
Member
Great, positive suggestion.
VW needs to do something to show they are doing something and are getting in front of the situation. Besides firing people, there's been nada.
VW needs to do something to show they are doing something and are getting in front of the situation. Besides firing people, there's been nada.
DoubleJ
Member
If GM has any competent marketing talent on the payroll, they would promote the Cruze diesel like they woke up broke Tuesday morning and had nothing else to sell. There probably won't be a better time to steal disenfranchised VDUB owners and sway those that were on the fence 2 weeks ago.
Honda Motor Co.??? Are you paying attention??? How about that Accord CDI you have been threatening us with for the past few years?
Honda Motor Co.??? Are you paying attention??? How about that Accord CDI you have been threatening us with for the past few years?
Galo
Veteran Member
Yes.
The occasional roughness and hunting during a DPF cycle is and would be an emissions issue.
It was a DPF cycle improvement update....
immortalmk2
Member
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- Sep 19, 2013
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- 2012 VW Golf TDI Manual w/Tech (His), 2013 VW Golf TDI DSG w/Tech (Hers)
Clearly I have nothing better to do, so I considered wandering down to my local VW dealer to assess the mood. But why add insult to injury for these folks if I'm not looking to buy one of the VWs they can still sell?
VW franchises and their employees are in a much worse predicament than any individual TDI owner will ever be (and I own 2 TDIs!). And they have about as much control over the situation as we do. So I think we should just all drive our TDIs, enjoy them, and stop badgering the dealers until VW decides on a fix. Or drop by with a box of donuts and tell them that you feel their pain.
omgsporks
Member
I just ordered a custom car magnet that says "STILL POLLUTES LESS THAN YOUR HYBRID SUV"
xnjboyx7
Member
...well the car was appraised 2 weeks ago, all set for a new TDI, paperwork done, all of a sudden VW Credit yanks the New TDI approval and says all sales are suspended .
xnjboyx7
Member
Wrote on the back of my TDI Wagem " VW and my Colon Doctor are one in the same"
Galo
Veteran Member
Why? How would anything it might need (ala the timing belt) be more expensive at a specialist's shop versus the dealer?
The car had the intake manifold replaced (flappers) at 74k miles for free under the Federal emissions warranty, brakes are >40% and they will be DIY anyway, so...why will the next 25k miles be expensive? It's been nearly free to date, so...what's the issue u see coming?
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