Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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dslman

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1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
I'm for anything that increases my resale value - this would not do it
Yours is a 2015.

If VW BUYSBACK GEN1 & GEN2 & CRUSHES ALL OF THEM, your 2015 will skyrocket in value, ESPECIALLY if they never offer TDI's again!

They will sell out of their remaining 2015 TDI Stock so fast your heads will spin!


HOWEVER......


IF VW FIXES all the GEN1/GEN2 & it lowers power/MPG then sells them back on the US/Canadian markets, it will ruin Resale values of those cars, BUT... GEN3 Will STILL go way up in value!

The only thing that will stabilize GEN3 Values is if VW can get 2016's Certified & start selling TDI's again.
 
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dslman

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1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
Wasn't the $5000 number a leak?
If they were smart, the would have purposely LEAKED that $5000, then come June 21 offer FULL Private Party Excellent Condition value from SEPT. 2015 AND $7000 Compensation!

How do you think everyone would feel about both VW and Kenneth Feinberg then?
 

fan of fanboys

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Columbia, SC
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2014 Jetta Sedan
If they were smart, the would have purposely LEAKED that $5000, then come June 21 offer FULL Private Party Excellent Condition value from SEPT. 2015 AND $7000 Compensation!
How do you think everyone would feel about both VW and Kenneth Feinberg then?
I like this guy!

under promise and over deliver!
 

da_jokker

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Location
Sacramento, CA
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2009 Jetta
Personally I have VW tied to the stake but I'm still holding the match.. If I could get into a new Passat TDI that comes with a lifetime emission warranty... I may be tempted to blow the match out.

I'm not totally a fan of the look of the new cars, kind of reminds me something an old person would drive. But I know you can add some aftermarket accessories that will spice it up. I like the concept of diesel, and I love the fuel mileage but I don't trust the emissions durability.
 
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autdi

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Location
Alabama
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2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
If they were smart, the would have purposely LEAKED that $5000, then come June 21 offer FULL Private Party Excellent Condition value from SEPT. 2015 AND $7000 Compensation!

How do you think everyone would feel about both VW and Kenneth Feinberg then?
If you have a 14 or 15, not at all happy. That would barely get back to break even, especially on the Gen 1, if it is a forced buyback, somehow the state implement a no registration law retroactive, and I have to replace it, I can't get something equivalent for that pile of money.
 

da_jokker

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Location
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2009 Jetta
If you have a 14 or 15, not at all happy. That would barely get back to break even, especially on the Gen 1, if it is a forced buyback, somehow the state implement a no registration law retroactive, and I have to replace it, I can't get something equivalent for that pile of money.
From a legal perspective this argument will be interesting and I don't know the legal precedent.... so maybe somebody can chime in but I think the goal of the law is to make you whole, as if you never bought it. Making sure you can buy something else that is too good to be true, isn't a factor.
 

dslman

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1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
If you have a 14 or 15, not at all happy. That would barely get back to break even, especially on the Gen 1, if it is a forced buyback, somehow the state implement a no registration law retroactive, and I have to replace it, I can't get something equivalent for that pile of money.
YES, I AGREE. IF someone Just bought their cars with very low miles, they need to pay back the FULL PURCHASE PRICE PLUS TAX AND EVERYTHING OUT THE DOOR.

UNLESS..... they can offer a FIX on GEN 3 that does not lower MPG/Power.
 

dslman

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1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
Personally I have VW tied to the stake but I'm still holding the match..
SO FUNNY! This made me laugh!

ME TOO, finger on the trigger (so to speak) but I like your tied to the stake with match in hand analogy better!


.
 

kjclow

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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I wanted to point out that the settlement will not include any incentives to purchase a new VW, and here's why. This isn't meant to be a sales campaign for VW. It is punishment for multiple counts of consumer fraud. If Feinburger (ultimately the judge) wants a high acceptance rate, there will be no incentives to purchase a new vehicle. Might as well open that deal up too the general public too. If they want to incentivize in addition to equal compensation across the board, and a later date, then great. But it can't be part of the original settlement because not everyone will want a new car. So it can't be a factor.
It won't be tied to the settlement, but my moneys on VWOA offering a "stay with the brand" incentive. Could be something as simple as offering 10% over the VW buyback price towards the purchase a brand new shiny VW, Audi, or Porsche.
 

dslman

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Location
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1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
Cracks me up about all of you that claim VW can't lose a single mpg...
A couple of Manufacturers have been sued for their cars being drastically under the EPA estimates, but we are getting more than the sticker price. You never going to be able to hold someone accountable because you're losing something you should have never had in the first place.
YES, MPG and POWER can not be lower than the Monroney Label.

Since we all get higher than Monroney label now, they have some wiggle room, but if the FIX (Which must not change power at all) but lowers MPG just up TO Monroney Label, that would work for them legally, but it wouldn't go very far towards their image and MAKE THINGS RIGHT Goals.


Personally Myself, If I owned a 2015 and the FIX was nothing more than a software update, I personally would't give a rats ass what it did to MPG nor Power because I would just put it back the way it was or even better get it tuned and INCREASE MPG and POWER WAY MORE than it was the way it was sold to me in the first place!

That's just me though let me say there are a LOT of people with the exact same thought. A LOT. Probably more than 50% of current GEN1 owners & if 300,000 GEN1 owners give their cars back, a LOT of them want to buy a new GEN3 TDI with the same Idea I just gave you.

Depending on what happens, Stop Sale Gen3's will fly off the showroom floor faster than speeding bullets from all the GEN1 owners looking for another TDI replacement.

Once they're all sold out, if they don't sell TDI's ever again, OR if they get delayed by a year, anyone with a 2015 GEN 3 is going to have a hot commodity.

It does not matter if TDI Diesel sales are a niche market if you only have 5000 Cars and 20,000 buyers the resale value is going to shoot way up for sure!


.
 

dslman

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Location
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1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
...So you see, I call you a jackass because you cannot see beyond your own opinion about matters. Can you tell me why you think the govt is against diesel? I think it is more they are FOR clean air.

Feebleminded jackasses are what cause consipiracy theories.

I think everyone here has you on Ignore (save for those who like your show)


Moderators Please? Personally calling me a Jackass Repeatedly?
 

MikeS_18

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Location
Bow, NH
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, '13 Passat SE, '64 Ford Econoline
If in order to get the compensation dollars should I choose not to sell it back they require me to get the fix, I'm going to be unhappy. Especially if that fix reduces the car's performance and can't be undone by a tuner.

But I can see that be part of the requirement to keep and fix. Both VW and Govt would want that. I suspect either way, I'm going to be unhappy.
 

whitedog

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Joined
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Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
The Eagles said it best: "as you talk about the plane crash with a gleam in your eye". .Mark
Actually that was Don Henley, solo, not with the Eagles, so obviously you don't know anything about the VW scandal either.

(Just kidding. It wasn't a jab at you , it was a jab at those that will find any irrelevant thing to prove someone is wrong about everything. IE. if you don't know the difference between Don Henley songs and The Eagles songs, you must not know anything about the emissions scandal.)

Carry on...
 

csl223

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Location
Florida
TDI
2013 Beetle TDI, 6sp Manual
Wasn't the $5000 number a leak?
I like this guy!
under promise and over deliver!
I would count on them under-delivering. ;)

The 5k leak was a leak from right before the gag order went into place.

Right before the goodwill package was unveiled the leaks said it would be 1250 per car. Then it ended up being only 1k, and half was VW only.

I'm not discounting any possibility, but still not getting my hopes up.
 

maybe368

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Phoenix
TDI
Happily none
Actually that was Don Henley, solo, not with the Eagles, so obviously you don't know anything about the VW scandal either.
(Just kidding. It wasn't a jab at you , it was a jab at those that will find any irrelevant thing to prove someone is wrong about everything. IE. if you don't know the difference between Don Henley songs and The Eagles songs, you must not know anything about the emissions scandal.)
Carry on...
Thanks, I guess I thought that is was the Eagles, because it sounds exactly like the Eagles. :eek: I guess that the Eagles would not have been the Eagles without Don Henley...Mark Edit: I read somewhere that that song was directed at a particular LA news anchor, I don't remember her name...
 
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kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Another big question I have that I've never heard anyone talking about is:
They keep saying 500,000 cars (or whatever).

Is that number based on:
  • How many were actually sold?
Probably already answered:
That number was given by VWOA as the total number of new CR diesels sold in the US and, I believe it included, Canada since 2008.
 

Cayman

Veteran Member
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Mar 23, 2013
Location
Bothell, WA
TDI
Jetta
Thanks, I guess I thought that is was the Eagles, because it sounds exactly like the Eagles. :eek: I guess that the Eagles would not have been the Eagles without Don Henley...Mark Edit: I read somewhere that that song was directed at a particular LA news anchor, I don't remember her name...
DON HENLEY LYRICS
"Dirty Laundry"

I make my living off the evening news
Just give me something
Something I can use
People love it when you lose
They love dirty laundry

Well, I coulda been an actor
But I wound up here
I just have to look good
I don't have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em all around

We got the bubble headed
Bleached blonde
Comes on at five
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash
With a gleam in her eye
It's interesting when people die
Give us dirty laundry

Can we film the operation
Is the head dead yet
You know the boys in the newsroom
Got a running bet
Get the widow on the set
We need dirty laundry

[Instrumental Interlude]

You don't really need to find out
What's going on
You don't really want to know
Just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're stiff
Kick 'em all around

(Kick 'em when they're up)
(Kick 'em when they're down)
(Kick 'em when they're up)
(Kick 'em when they're down)

(Kick 'em when they're up)
(Kick 'em when they're down)
(Kick 'em when they're stiff)
(Kick 'em all around)

Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers
In everybody's pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry

We can do the Innuendo
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done
We haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
The $1,000 Goodwill package was not $1,000. It was a $500 pre-paid Visa card and $500 that could only be spent on parts or labor for a derelict vehicle which will be bought back. And 3 years of free road-side assistance on said vehicle. Doesn't look so "Goodwill" anymore does it?
For me, it was all goodwill, $2000 worth. I spent the $500 dealer card for my 80K mile service on the JSw, plus about $50 out of pocket. I spent the other money on an apple watch for the wife and a few goodies for us to share on RAGBAI this summer. The wife needs her 50k service done, so that will take care of part of her $500 dealer card. I'm not sure where she spent the other money but have to assume most of it went to our new grandbaby.
 

maybe368

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Location
Phoenix
TDI
Happily none
DON HENLEY LYRICS
"Dirty Laundry"
I make my living off the evening news
Just give me something
Something I can use
People love it when you lose
They love dirty laundry
Well, I coulda been an actor
But I wound up here
I just have to look good
I don't have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em all around
We got the bubble headed
Bleached blonde
Comes on at five
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash
With a gleam in her eye
It's interesting when people die
Give us dirty laundry
Can we film the operation
Is the head dead yet
You know the boys in the newsroom
Got a running bet
Get the widow on the set
We need dirty laundry
[Instrumental Interlude]
You don't really need to find out
What's going on
You don't really want to know
Just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're stiff
Kick 'em all around
(Kick 'em when they're up)
(Kick 'em when they're down)
(Kick 'em when they're up)
(Kick 'em when they're down)
(Kick 'em when they're up)
(Kick 'em when they're down)
(Kick 'em when they're stiff)
(Kick 'em all around)
Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers
In everybody's pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry
We can do the Innuendo
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done
We haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry
I make these mistakes because I like to rely on my sometimes faulty memory. I read somewhere that people nowadays think that they are smart because they know how to google things. I would rather, in most cases, make minor mistakes by relying on my memory, than be a "google intellect". That does not mean that I don't google, but I try to put the things that I do google into my memory banks, so that I don't have to google it again...Mark Edit: This is not directed at you, I appreciate the info...
 
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dslman

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2001
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2000 GOLF, 2013 Touareg, 2015 Q5
I would count on them under-delivering. ;)

The 5k leak was a leak from right before the gag order went into place.

Right before the goodwill package was unveiled the leaks said it would be 1250 per car. Then it ended up being only 1k, and half was VW only.

I'm not discounting any possibility, but still not getting my hopes up.
It really doesn't matter what the Generous compensation is on a buyback, all that matters if they want to avoid lawsuits & try to force buyback (via DMV blocked Registration Renewals)

If it's $3000 or $10,000, if they FORCE Buyback it needs to add up to FULL PRICE PAID with TAX and everything paid out the door for those owners of newer models with very low miles.

2014 is the WORST because it's the newest GEN1 available.

I don't get how some others on this forum don't get this? Or they think Trade-in value is OK. SURE maybe if you have a 5 year old car beat to $hit with 250,000 miles & were planning to get rid of it anyways, but NOT someone who just bought the car or even someone who has an older model year, but very low miles MINT condition, these people are never going to be forced to give up thousands of dollars in up front depreciation on a brand new car they just paid $30,000 for all because VW SCREWED UP!


It has nothing to do with owners, 100% all the fault is VW's own doing.


Elon Musk WAS SO RIGHT, EPA/CARB feeble minded dimwits should have just Grandfathered ALL OF THEM IN then FINE, & make VW do other things to rectify the AIR for what they did.

I don't care what anyone says, Nobody is going to be forced to give back a TOP Condition TDI with low miles that they paid $30,000 for then be forced to give it back for LESS than they just paid for it! That is just hogwash BS.

They'll all file personal lawsuits & it would cost VW 3 time more money than if they just paid back the FULL PRICE PAID in the first place.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW 02Q, 2003 Jetta Ute 02J swap, 2003 Golf 02J swap
The Cummins engine with 300,000 miles would still outlive me.

Like this one:




Someone a while back made a reference that I bought the wrong car in a GOLF. They were RIGHT, but not for the reason they thought.

.
Nice truck, EXCEPT for that fugly paint job. And if you take care of them, a Cummins should last you a lot more than 300K. Some of the Cummins trucks I see here crack me up - one had dual smokestacks in the back that took up most of the bed, but it still has farm plates. Really?
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Well, they are predicting AT LEAST 119 this Saturday. This is very near the time that we had 122. I am sitting about 350 miles south of Phoenix right now, but the same retrograde high is going to be sitting right on top of us here. I think that I'll spend the day on the beach. The funny thing is today is going to be 100 or less in Phoenix, a 19 degree increase in 6 days...Mark
THAT is a primary reason I'm not looking anywhere south of the Black Canyon City latitude for my projected move to AZ - I've had enough triple digit days up here! The Prescott area looks nice.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
No flame here, just a different perspective:

You may not feel 'damaged' by this but plenty do. In my case I'd planned to move to an SUV last winter but couldn't due to low value on the car and several dealers not willing to trade it in - closest was one saying "we couldn't give you what it should be worth."

It will likely be a year past the time I'd planned to be in a different vehicle - don't know about you, but I don't like being put off a year through no fault of my own.

Ask the people who's cars got written off for whatever reason in the last year and the insurance company paid current value if there's damage, or people that have had a major mechanical failure.
I understand your side too. I'm in year 6 out of 10 on my JSW and 5 out of 10 for the Golf. If it weren't for dieselgate, the only reason I would be looking at a new car is to try to talk myself out of a $40k US babyduramax GM canyon.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
1) it was no race baiting. race can be mentioned without it being race baiting. do you need a safe space from trigger words?

2) if going to generalize a time as being the good ole day, especially a time you did not live it, probably best not list an era where crime was growing drastically and minorities were oppressed
Ah, he definitely has lived it as he is probably much older than you. :D

Oh, btw, it is spelled "fanboi" ;)
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Nice truck, EXCEPT for that fugly paint job. And if you take care of them, a Cummins should last you a lot more than 300K. Some of the Cummins trucks I see here crack me up - one had dual smokestacks in the back that took up most of the bed, but it still has farm plates. Really?

I kind of like that paint job. Kind of gives it character and clearly makes it look different from the "run of the mill" Dodge trucks out there (and there are tons of them).

Two tone paint jobs were pretty common once upon a time and many were done tastefully, like on this truck. It's all about cost minimization now so manufacturer's won't go for two toning vehicles anymore.

Sounds like you are the "plain vanilla" type of guy! :D
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
I think everyone here has you on Ignore (save for those who like your show)


Moderators Please? Personally calling me a Jackass Repeatedly?
Just click the Report this post icon, fill out the reason for the report, and send it. Enough of them and Lawson will take appropriate action.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
If in order to get the compensation dollars should I choose not to sell it back they require me to get the fix, I'm going to be unhappy. Especially if that fix reduces the car's performance and can't be undone by a tuner.

But I can see that be part of the requirement to keep and fix. Both VW and Govt would want that. I suspect either way, I'm going to be unhappy.
But the compensation dollars are to compensate you for the reduced performance. ;)
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW 02Q, 2003 Jetta Ute 02J swap, 2003 Golf 02J swap
I kind of like that paint job. Kind of gives it character and clearly makes it look different from the "run of the mill" Dodge trucks out there (and there are tons of them).

Two tone paint jobs were pretty common once upon a time and many were done tastefully, like on this truck. It's all about cost minimization now so manufacturer's won't go for two toning vehicles anymore.

Sounds like you are the "plain vanilla" type of guy! :D
Not necessarily, but I've never liked two tone paint jobs on consumer vehicles. Now if we're talking train locomotives, that's a different story. Single tone is boring.
 
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