Tom S. in Tn.
Active member
So was the pos we had......... until we actually tried to turn it.
Doubt me? Take it to your nearest dealeer and see what they give you.
And I'm still pissed. Tom S. in Tn.
Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations
- Thread starter TDIpilot4u
- Start date
- Status
So was the pos we had......... until we actually tried to turn it.
Doubt me? Take it to your nearest dealeer and see what they give you.
And I'm still pissed. Tom S. in Tn.
Right; but even if the car had been tested EPA would have missed the cheat. After all, it took VW admission of the cheat to come to light. The months that the EPA was suspicious and was rejecting the BS 'technical explanations' of VW were months that the EPA could not discover the cheat themselves. The EPA may have had a good idea, but they needed proof.
This is not so surprising. The AECDs are closed, proprietary machine code. Reverse engineering it would be difficult, if even allowed under DMCA. That is the other piece of the this story for the future, by the way: Code review in the programming language used should be available to the regulatory authorities.
TDIpilot4u
Veteran Member
LMAO, are you for real?
Good luck with that, and have fun with your Prius.Oh, by the way, if you get a Hybrid Prius, you're still polluter, so can your conscience live with that?
I feel so much better after looking at your original post and seeing you are from SF. I thought for sure you have to hail from Seattle with that level of reaction.
1854sailor
Resident Curmudgeon
Even if he gets an all electric Prius he's still a polluter…
…and, unless he gets ALL of his electricity from solar, wind, or hydro, he's still polluting.bhtooefr said:
Since he was happy when he thought he was driving a T2B5 vehicle and the Prius is much cleaner than that, the answer seems obvious.
For reference, Prius NOx is ~ 10 mg/mile. All the non-hybrid SULEV cars are no more than 20 mg/mile.
Tom S. in Tn.
Active member
Be cautious, very cautious that they don't take your vehicle, that you've probably paid most of what they had floor planned in it from the manufacturer, and wind up with an even more expensive polluter or some other kind of possible safety violater ....... and give even more $$,000.00 to close the deal.
Take it from someone who's been down that road managing a dozen more cars at a time. * Take it to the dealer lot, throw the keys at it and walk to your nearest Asian dealership and tell them you need a car. *
Tom S. in Tn.
Active member
and I concur precisely. Tom S. in Tn.
TDIpilot4u
Veteran Member
I plan on continuing to drive my TDI I have no reservations about continuing to drive it at all. At this point I will continue to do so I love the cars mileage and performance. I would purchase another TDI or what ever VW comes up with if it has comparable performance. Just have some concerns about what might happen in the future once this is all resolved if it ever is. I don't see any reason for your rant about my post, however that's your option.
Not sure if this was posted or not...
http://jalopnik.com/porsche-chief-e...er-will-be-named-1732803842?rev=1443109531592
http://jalopnik.com/porsche-chief-e...er-will-be-named-1732803842?rev=1443109531592
Tom S. in Tn.
Active member
Sounds like they have a real one and have to live within real world constraints like the rest of the world, and is smart enough to put a halt to the financial abyss that sits in their garage.Get a life!
My only recommendation would be to move it outside to the street to make room for the car. Tom S. in Tn.
vivithemage
Well-known member
That is interesting, I think they would be better off buying back then paying the fine, assuming they have to pay full value for the fine.
When a company has to buy back, what do they do with the old cars?
Tom S. in Tn.
Active member
............ wonder if that is subject to change now? Tom S. in Tn.
Speedster
Veteran Member
Class Action Reality
I am a retired corporate attorney and owner of two VWs with TDI engines, which I really like. I am not at all offended by what the EPA has alleged, and the real facts will eventually emerge.
I do know a lot about class action lawsuits. Law firms which specialize in this type of legal action only need one person who owns one of the affected VWs and will list him/her as the plaintiff, and allege that the potential group of plaintiffs is so large that the suit should be elevated to class action for the sake of judicial efficiency. At this time, it is my understanding that several legal actions have already been commenced, and each will first attempt to knock the others out of the game.
At some point, the winning law firm will obtain a list of all VW owners with affected engines, and will mail them notice of the class action case and that they have the option to opt out. Not opting out means that you will be automatically included as a plaintiff and will supposedly get your share of the award, if any. The law firm will of course get the lion's share of any settlement. These cases never go to trial, being settled along the way. After a settlement is reached, the law firm will give the judge a list of all of its expenses to date, which will come out of the settlement. The amount will be very large, as these firms routinely will charge about $1000 per billable hour for these cases. Also, they do not give a rip about you, but are only in it for the $$$$$.
Thinking about the critical matter of proof of damages, no one on this earth can prove any real damages due to this VW code. We have cars that get higher mpg than the EPA estimate, so we spend less on fuel. No damage here. You also have no legal standing to sue on behalf of the environment or the EPA. It is still raging whether the EPA uses real science or junk science fueled by a political agenda. Using real scientific methods, no one to date has adduced any proof of environmental damage caused by diesel powered cars. So, no damage here either.
What is the almost certain outcome in this case is that VW will negotiate some amount of EPA fines, and will pay a class action settlement, which will not be large enough to pay the expenses of the action. We will all most surely receive some sort of notice from VW to take our cars to the dealer where the computer chip will be reflashed with code that will make your car lower powered, less efficient, and allegedly cleaner running. VW cannot force you to do this to your car, so it will be a voluntary action. The EPA may also mail you a threatening letter that you need to have your car computer reflashed, which you may also refuse to comply with. Most states, like mine, exempt all diesel powered cars from emissions testing.
May the torque continue to be with you,
Speedster
I am a retired corporate attorney and owner of two VWs with TDI engines, which I really like. I am not at all offended by what the EPA has alleged, and the real facts will eventually emerge.
I do know a lot about class action lawsuits. Law firms which specialize in this type of legal action only need one person who owns one of the affected VWs and will list him/her as the plaintiff, and allege that the potential group of plaintiffs is so large that the suit should be elevated to class action for the sake of judicial efficiency. At this time, it is my understanding that several legal actions have already been commenced, and each will first attempt to knock the others out of the game.
At some point, the winning law firm will obtain a list of all VW owners with affected engines, and will mail them notice of the class action case and that they have the option to opt out. Not opting out means that you will be automatically included as a plaintiff and will supposedly get your share of the award, if any. The law firm will of course get the lion's share of any settlement. These cases never go to trial, being settled along the way. After a settlement is reached, the law firm will give the judge a list of all of its expenses to date, which will come out of the settlement. The amount will be very large, as these firms routinely will charge about $1000 per billable hour for these cases. Also, they do not give a rip about you, but are only in it for the $$$$$.
Thinking about the critical matter of proof of damages, no one on this earth can prove any real damages due to this VW code. We have cars that get higher mpg than the EPA estimate, so we spend less on fuel. No damage here. You also have no legal standing to sue on behalf of the environment or the EPA. It is still raging whether the EPA uses real science or junk science fueled by a political agenda. Using real scientific methods, no one to date has adduced any proof of environmental damage caused by diesel powered cars. So, no damage here either.
What is the almost certain outcome in this case is that VW will negotiate some amount of EPA fines, and will pay a class action settlement, which will not be large enough to pay the expenses of the action. We will all most surely receive some sort of notice from VW to take our cars to the dealer where the computer chip will be reflashed with code that will make your car lower powered, less efficient, and allegedly cleaner running. VW cannot force you to do this to your car, so it will be a voluntary action. The EPA may also mail you a threatening letter that you need to have your car computer reflashed, which you may also refuse to comply with. Most states, like mine, exempt all diesel powered cars from emissions testing.
May the torque continue to be with you,
Speedster
pfennig
Active member
Owner options:
1) Wait and take the detune and hope the offered compensation is worth it
2) Wait and try to avoid the detune
3) Join a class action suit
4) File an individual suit
5) Sell / trade in on the normal market
If you join a class action, you give up your right to file individually. IMHO class actions are likely to get you very little -- they're primarily money making tools for the lawyers.
If one is not interested in joining a class action, and was not planning on keeping the car in extra-polluting state, is there any disadvantage to filing an individual suit now seeking buyback? Other than lawyer fees, which hopefully would be billed to VWOA?
I suppose if an individual suit results in "buyback for KBB" and then VW offers the public remedy of "buyback for original purchase price" then the individual suit would be worse, but that's highly unlikely.
I'm mainly asking if VW will be able to ignore an individual suit given the overall scenario, or if they could get it dismissed because there are class actions for the same, or something.
1) Wait and take the detune and hope the offered compensation is worth it
2) Wait and try to avoid the detune
3) Join a class action suit
4) File an individual suit
5) Sell / trade in on the normal market
If you join a class action, you give up your right to file individually. IMHO class actions are likely to get you very little -- they're primarily money making tools for the lawyers.
If one is not interested in joining a class action, and was not planning on keeping the car in extra-polluting state, is there any disadvantage to filing an individual suit now seeking buyback? Other than lawyer fees, which hopefully would be billed to VWOA?
I suppose if an individual suit results in "buyback for KBB" and then VW offers the public remedy of "buyback for original purchase price" then the individual suit would be worse, but that's highly unlikely.
I'm mainly asking if VW will be able to ignore an individual suit given the overall scenario, or if they could get it dismissed because there are class actions for the same, or something.
Last edited:
k^2
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2013
- Location
- MI
- TDI
- 2010 Jetta Sportwagen DSG - Sold back to VW. Replaced with Sportwagen 2.5 GAS
You are unreasonable. The car's NOx emissions are just as much as any 2006 and earlier TDI. Every other emission is lower. Yeah the guys who drive Suburban spew 3 times as much greenhouse gasses but that is OK.
DeliveryValve
Veteran Member
Another article to add to the pile.
http://www.ewg.org/enviroblog/2015/09/how-two-dogged-clear-air-sleuths-exposed-massive-vw-deceit
.
http://www.ewg.org/enviroblog/2015/09/how-two-dogged-clear-air-sleuths-exposed-massive-vw-deceit
.
Your post was well reasoned until
this part which you clearly know nothing about.
Last edited:
jerrypoller
Member
Yeah, the cooling fan running more often was mentioned by my Service Tech as the way VW was going to burn off the excess pollutants. I know soot is one of the pollutants the regeneration cycle is supposed to burn off, but I never heard it was designed to burn off excess NO2. I guess there will be much more to come and I may have to question my Service Tech more closely in the future.
IronJoe
Member
For #5, are there any restrictions placed on selling these cars as-is? I have heard that in some states like California, it is illegal to sell a vehicle that does not pass emissions.
That's hilarious lol
Our x5 had high Nox readings from the start in 2011. It used way too much urea as well. BMW had a recall to replace the SCR cat and reprogram. The SCR cat doubled in physical size and the urea use dropped as well. Before the recall, the urea was depleted in 7000 miles. Post recall it was 10500-11000 miles.
If the VW has a small SCR or no SCR, I would expect a larger one or a new one being fitted
If the VW has a small SCR or no SCR, I would expect a larger one or a new one being fitted
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
You can say that again. I never realized so many whack jobs owned diesel Volkswagens. It is both sad and hilarious all at the same time.
I wholeheartedly agreeYou can say that again. I never realized so many whack jobs owned diesel Volkswagens. It is both sad and hilarious all at the same time.
DeliveryValve
Veteran Member
One more article to the pile.. tdiclub has been mentioned here..
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/22/us-usa-volkswagen-dealers-idUSKCN0RM2RE20150922
.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/22/us-usa-volkswagen-dealers-idUSKCN0RM2RE20150922
.
Speedster
Veteran Member
Anyone who opts out of the class action suit is entitled to commence a separate legal action. With only one plaintiff, an attorney will want the plaintiff to pay a hefty retainer to get the suit filed and will demand ongoing expenses be paid. Since any individual car owner can only demand the value of the car, it will not be worth filing an individual action. This is another rationale for the class action.
Anyone who takes any unilateral action to alter or dispose of their VW TDI, and then claims real and consequential damages is foolhardy. The law requires that an injured party mitigate (lessen) damages, not increase them. Keep your TDI, drive it and enjoy the ride. They are still highly efficient and low polluting.
This whole thing is a tornado in a teapot and will blow over, with the EPA attempting to make an example out of VW.
Speedster
Last edited:
DeliveryValve
Veteran Member
And the press is looking us here too to see all this..You can say that again. I never realized so many whack jobs owned diesel Volkswagens. It is both sad and hilarious all at the same time.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
I've had four CR TDIs through the shop already today.... I think I may have to go home sick with NOx poisoning. This never happened until this week.
I'm going to sue!
I'm going to sue!
- Status