Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[durundal]

One of CARB's STATED GOALS is to get all diesel vehicles (at least autos) off the road by any means necessary. Still want to stick with that "no-conspircy" theory ?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where's yours?

 

[S2000_guy]

And is the mileage in the 40 - 50 mpg range? What is the torque?

Mileage is definitely lower.

Who cares if the "TORQUE" number is lower if the car accelerates faster. My Honda S2000 would do 0-60 (yes, that number matters when you're pulling out of a parking lot, or side road with a stop sign, into traffic going 55-60 mph on a highway.) The S2000 had something like 150 ft-lb of torque, but would out accelerate a TDI easily.

 

[Bisoned]

So basically you proved my point that the standards were set so they made diesel cars uneconomical.

Right.... vw should have never sold a tdi model here. To do it they broke the rules. Lutz said the people at GM didn't know how they could do it. Make a compliant car with great fuel economy and still make a respectable profit.

 

[S2000_guy]

But to Joe Public, "compliant" means "it will pass the required smog test of your locality". Joe Public doesn't give a rat's patootie about what was required to make it pass.

Nobody ever went bankrupt underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (H.L. Mencken)

Or

Think about how dumb the averages person is. Then realize that half of them are dumber than that. (George Carlin)

 

[Bisoned]

If VA has diminished value laws, sue VW for the difference under that law. Depending on how much it is, probably not small claims, but check the limits there. You have easily provable damages, lawyer should take it if VA has that law on the books.

Diminished value is very hard to prove at least in my state. Tried it after a car accident and got nowhere. I paid a certified appraiser, who wrote a report establishing the value of the car by calling dealerships and obtaining trade in quotes.

With you car being totaled the adjuster only has to make you whole to what the current FMV of your car is. Chasing VW would be very difficult. That is such a horrible situation to be in.

 

[shovelhd]

Thanks mjLyco ! I saw the Sportage and Sorento. The RAV4 hybrid will be the MPG winner that's for sure but it's about $40k

It's nowhere near $40k. My wife's Limited was $32k out the door, and you can get it in the lower XLE trim for a lot less. The difference between a gasser RAV4 and a hybrid RAV4 is $1K. Do your research before you spout off that noise.

 

[ATR]

Mileage is definitely lower.

Who cares if the "TORQUE" number is lower if the car accelerates faster. My Honda S2000 would do 0-60 (yes, that number matters when you're pulling out of a parking lot, or side road with a stop sign, into traffic going 55-60 mph on a highway.) The S2000 had something like 150 ft-lb of torque, but would out accelerate a TDI easily.

The first generation ap1 s2000 had 130lb ft of torque
https://youtu.be/eYQRQiy01mg

The newer ap2 s2k had around 150lb ft to the wheels.
http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/833293-s2000-dyno-charts/

The cool thing about the power is that the torque curve is broad and flat on the s2k.

Sadly our TDIs only have a torque peak band from 2400rpm until 3100rpm:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=323946

 

[Vidgamer]

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-cellphone-court-20140228-story.html
I use my cell phone as a GPS every day and have been passed by many many CHPs on bikes looking for people texting and driving and not been pulled over.

About a year ago, there was a story here about a cop -- he was even on tv video saying he would ticket for cell phones for just using GPS. I do it all the time tho.

 

[CSR Penfab]

I got an interesting letter in the mail today from VW's Testing Center in Oxnard CA. "To ensure top performance...." They want to come to me and download diagnostic data from my Tdi Touareg. For my troubles, they'll give me a $75 Visa card... What say you? Is this a data grab to test a potential fix for the 3.0l Tdi's? I'm tempted not to reply.

Here's the letter:

 

[I800C0LLECT]

It is not compliant to put an undisclosed Alternative Emissions Control Device in a vehicle, no matter what we are fine with. I think it is kind of crazy, to expect a car company would list out individual pollutant performance, instead of being trusted by the average consumer to simply comply with the law. In that sense, they lied.
If you are fine with NOx, then VW agrees with you, in what is a different argument. VW, From the Fortune piece: “The scientific data currently known to us does not give a clear picture of the effect of nitrogen oxide in environmental concentrations on people and no completely validated statements can be made about the actual risk potential.”
http://fortune.com/inside-volkswagen-emissions-scandal/
Put VW's goggles on, and a lot of things start looking "clean".

In a weird way...all AECDs are undisclosed.

Are you ok with the EPA receiving money to pass an AECD?

what's most concerning is that ALL AECD negotiations are held behind closed doors. Those records are not public or available upon request...they're kept secret to "protect" the designs.

I question the merit of ANY approved AECD that is paid for and kept secret.

 

[bobgolf2004]

Definition: On the horns of a dilemma -
Last weekend, on the DC beltway, I was caught in a crash in my 2013 Jetta TDI sedan. Today, the insurance company called to tell me the frame is damaged, and they are totaling the car. So what should I do? Not only is the value diminished because of the uncertainty over the settlement, but I also will not be a TDI owner when the judge approves the final settlement. So if there is any additional reimbursement to owners beyond the buyback/repair costs, I will miss that too. But at this point, it might be better to just move on from everything - the crash AND the suit.
I've actually toyed with the idea of buying a used same-year TDI. The insurance company based the value on 4 "comps" in my area, and gave me the dealers where those cars are available. Not sure SWMBO will go for that one. And not sure I want to deal with the uncertainty of what the settlement will REALLY be.

Talk to your insurance company.

Your car has 2 FMV:Current FMV and the one VW will pay to buy it back under the settlement (if and when that happens.) Vw's settlement value may be higher.

 

[thanksimgruven]

stopped reading at continuous effort...

these guys are turkeys

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where's yours?

I think this article helps paint the picture that CARB and EPA aren't looking for progress...they're looking to achieve an agenda. If that's true, I'd say they do maintain malicious intent.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-diesel-rule-scam-1445212223

Notably, the epidemiological study that CARB used to justify its truck rule in 2008 had to be corrected after it was revealed that the report’s lead staff scientist had purchased his statistics doctorate for $1,000 from a diploma mill. CARB later revised its estimates of premature deaths prevented by the rule down to 3,500 from 9,400. After discovering the deceit, CARB Chairwoman Mary Nichols failed to inform the board and went ahead and propounded the regulations for adoption.

In other words, the regulations under which EPA and CARB are prosecuting truckers are based on dubious science. But when the cause is green virtue, such details don’t matter.

 

[Redgrom]

And is the mileage in the 40 - 50 mpg range? What is the torque?

Just a quick question on torque, I understand it in a truck that is used for towing but in a car what's the real advantage if said car is slower 0-60? I know it feels good (exspecially in the 328 ) but if it's not quicker what's the advantage, the illusion of quickness? If it's just the feel I guess I get that.

 

[Rico567]

maybe you bought the wrong car then! if filling the DEF is such a hassle .
having to use funnels spilling "piss" all over yourself your trunk etc.
Me.... I knew if the DEF tank where i would be filling it etc before I bought the car. like i said its a simple process but hey what do i know. Amazing how something so simple and people think the sky is falling.
Do you pump your own diesel? that stuff stinks if you get it on you too .

Haha I'm enjoying the debate

and my dad can beat up his dad, too

Bingo. "Thomas Jefferson despised what he called '-the morbid rage of debate.' However, his fellow Virginian Patrick Henry lived by it." - Alistair Cooke

 

[Jeta Life]

It's nowhere near $40k. My wife's Limited was $32k out the door, and you can get it in the lower XLE trim for a lot less. The difference between a gasser RAV4 and a hybrid RAV4 is $1K. Do your research before you spout off that noise.

Okay, you're referring to the XLE trim which is not fully loaded. The "Limited" with all the goods starts at $34,500+ which after taxes, financing, etc....

This is why I hate car shopping. Oh, and don't sue me, I'm not as worse as Volkswagen.

 

[linux_author]

Q: What's the difference between a VW TDI and a VW TDI owner?

A: The VW TDI stops whining when parked in the driveway and the ignition is off.

It's an automobile, not a drama play.

 

[Redgrom]

I talked to the managers at my dealership. Not only are they not happy, but they tell me at least 3/4 of their VW TDI customers are not happy.

On my last trip to the vw dealer I was talking with the sales manager on duty and he agreed with your statement that "most" TDI owners weren't happy when they were in registering their gift cards. But I am in California so factor that in.

 

[YukonLT]

Q: What's the difference between a VW TDI and a VW TDI owner?

A: The VW TDI stops whining when parked in the driveway and the ignition is off.

It's an automobile, not a drama play.

Grouping all TDI owners into the same group eh? Not very smart. I know many that are happy with their TDI and don't whine, myself included.

 

[jjk58]

Its is, bought a 328d on Saturday runs and drives great. Bought a per owned certified with 11,400 miles on it.

may need to check those. unfortunately, my discount is only on new...

 

[JohnQ]

Talk to your insurance company.
Your car has 2 FMV:Current FMV and the one VW will pay to buy it back under the settlement (if and when that happens.) Vw's settlement value may be higher.

Lol.. @ 2 FMV....

Let us know what the insurance company says.

 

[shovelhd]

Okay, you're referring to the XLE trim which is not fully loaded. The "Limited" with all the goods starts at $34,500+ which after taxes, financing, etc....
This is why I hate car shopping. Oh, and don't sue me, I'm not as worse as Volkswagen.

Incorrect. Go back and read what I wrote again. She drives a Limited, not an XLE.

 

[jjk58]

I got an interesting letter in the mail today from VW's Testing Center in Oxnard CA. "To ensure top performance...." They want to come to me and download diagnostic data from my Tdi Touareg. For my troubles, they'll give me a $75 Visa card... What say you? Is this a data grab to test a potential fix for the 3.0l Tdi's? I'm tempted not to reply.

As long as it wasn't out of the way to get to a site, $75 (and probably a cup of bad coffee) is pretty decent incentive

 

[CSR Penfab]

As long as it wasn't out of the way to get to a site, $75 (and probably a cup of bad coffee) is pretty decent incentive

Oh even better, they'll come to me anywhere in So CA and do the data dump at my work or home. I'm still not too confident they won't modify something without telling me. I have zero trust in VW. Not worth $75. They can go eff themselves.

 

[meerschm]

I got an interesting letter in the mail today from VW's Testing Center in Oxnard CA. "To ensure top performance...." They want to come to me and download diagnostic data from my Tdi Touareg. For my troubles, they'll give me a $75 Visa card... What say you? Is this a data grab to test a potential fix for the 3.0l Tdi's? I'm tempted not to reply.

Here's the letter:

They come to you and read the data. why not?

(if you are paranoid, you can run a scan before and after to verify they have not updated anything.)

They come to you. give you $75. sign me up.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

They come to you and read the data. why not?

(if you are paranoid, you can run a scan before and after to verify they have not updated anything.)

They come to you. give you $75. sign me up.

If you were unemployed and had nothing better to do...sure...why not. For everyone else...I'm at a complete loss as to why you would waste your time and do this.

That's not getting into the likelihood that when they give you your keys back....they'll say "my bad...we accidentally reflashed your car with this new software. Here's your $75...lol."

Even if you scanned is before and caught that they did this...what are you going to do about it? Throw a fit? They conned people into coming in for the emissions/DPF update and nothing has come of that.

 

[Bisoned]

O My.... another lawsuit! deep in the death spiral now

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05...lth-fund-will-sue-volkswagen-over-dieselgate/

After the DOJ/CAS/EPA/CARB is done with them there might not be anything left for anybody else....

 

[turboBear]

.. deep in the death spiral now ...http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05...lth-fund-will-sue-volkswagen-over-dieselgate/

ewwww. 2 for 4.

I wonder when Porsche Automobil and Lower Saxony will file their suits ... oh, wait ... maybe THEY won't ...

 

[Bisoned]

ewwww. 2 for 4.
I wonder when Porsche Automobil and Lower Saxony will file their suits ... oh, wait ... maybe THEY won't ...

Lower Saxony considered it. Might change their minds however as their investment continues to drop. This isn't going away any time soon.

 

[turboBear]

Just a quick question on torque .. but if it's not quicker what's the advantage

IANAE (I Am Not An Engineer) but ... for my 2c if the engine develops torque at lower velocity you need use high rpm less to manage the same usage vehicle velocity.

This may lead to lower wear and tear and higher fuel economy, given engine displacement and vehicle weight is relatively similar otherwise.

I've found it interesting that as a group even the gas power VW turbo powered vehicles seem to have more torque at low rpm than 'similar' competing vehicles. Examples: Compare GTI to Subaru WRX or Ford Focus ST; compare Golf R to Subaru STI or Focus RS; compare base Golf to Ford Focus SE.

From what I've seen in various purview of tuner sites and info, the higher horsepower range is coincident with higher engine rpm. Pretty much maps to higher fuel consumption.

Having the higher torque at lower rpm also means I don't have to mid/high-rev the engine when the car is loaded (bikes, people, crap, towing) when starting from a stop or going uphill - assuming I'm not trying to set a 1/4 mile time.

I'm SURE there are more knowledgeable people who can chime in though.