Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[y0bailey]

I doubt very much that they're going to pay someone $xx,xxx to take a car off the road, when the customer already did that through neglect.

Edit:You might want to confirm that the carcass is worth 'x' before risking that one. It's going to be months before this gets resolved. It's not like we're talking a couple weeks.

Yea I'm not risking that at all.


NEW CAR TIME!


Now to find a Chevy Colorado Diesel 4x4 crew cab short bed. They are like unicorns.

 

[dslman]

I'll take $5000!
Hello Malone, Hello Rawtek!

I can guarantee you will not get a dime unless you choose the buyback, or the fix.
2nd & 3rd Generation TDI's are most likely nothing more than a VERY simple MINOR software flash.
1st Generation TDI's may NOT be able to be fixed at all OR WORSE YET, their "FIX" will consist of hacking the car full of holes with MONKEYS shoehorning an afterthought SCR retrofit + GIANT SCR Catalyst which the car was never designed for in the first place.
In other words, the possible "FIX" for all 1st Generation TDI's could be the WORST OUTCOME of all scenarios Presented so far, IF they even offer any fix at all for 1st Gen cars, it may be something of a compromise which won't get the cars fully into compliance, but gets them closer, depends on CARB/EPA Allows that or not.
A simple software flash "FIX" for all 1st Generation cars would be the BEST IMO no matter what it does to MPG/Performance I care less, it will be REMOVED the minute we get the car back.
Anyone who doesn't agree with that can choose the buyback route, but IMO hacking the car up trying to shoehorn an SCR Catalyst and DEF injection system is the WORST CASE SCENARIO FIX offered for 1st Generations.

 

[durundal]

Except if my timing belt goes I'm out $4000. Or my HPFP goes (again) I'm sunk.

So my "profit" of $5000 becomes nil. Or is someone sideswipes me on my way to work I can kiss the money goodbye.

I understand what you are saying, but this thing is a ticking time bomb and I don't want to risk a failure.

No kidding. Compared to the quirks of the ALH and PD cars these things are full of multi-thousand dollar repairs lurking:

- HPFP (IIRC when mine went under warranty the dealer had 16 hours labor + $7k in parts to replace the fuel system)
- Emissions components (So, in addition to the $1100 DPF, it needs a $2400 catalyst, a $570 pipe, and another $100 worth of clamps and gaskets to hold it all together. https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=399678)
- Turbo ($1500, 9 hours from oilhammer's post above)
Did I miss anything?

Add in the oil you have to special order or get from the dealer, the liquid gold DSG fluid with short change intervals and it sure seems like VW banked on their previous reputation for economy and longevity (says so on this site's banner!) to squeeze out these turds. And that's not including the other little issues, like the fuel filler door lock dying, leaving you stranded at a fuel pump. (also happened to me, fortunately it was intermittent enough to cycle it 50ish times until it opened once and I was able to leave it unlatched until I could clip the plastic lock-stub. Seriously, no manual pull to get at it from inside the truck??? Sheesh.)

 

[tobianogreg]

So we should all park these ticking time bombs until a decision is made?

No way. This is VW's problem now, not mine.

 

[kitarkus]

I can guarantee you will not get a dime unless you choose the buyback, or the fix.
2nd & 3rd Generation TDI's are most likely nothing more than a VERY simple MINOR software flash.
1st Generation TDI's may NOT be able to be fixed at all OR WORSE YET, their "FIX" will consist of hacking the car full of holes with MONKEYS shoehorning an afterthought SCR retrofit + GIANT SCR Catalyst which the car was never designed for in the first place.
In other words, the possible "FIX" for all 1st Generation TDI's could be the WORST OUTCOME of all scenarios Presented so far, IF they even offer any fix at all for 1st Gen cars, it may be something of a compromise which won't get the cars fully into compliance, but gets them closer, depends on CARB/EPA Allows that or not.
A simple software flash "FIX" for all 1st Generation cars would be the BEST IMO no matter what it does to MPG/Performance I care less, it will be REMOVED the minute we get the car back.
Anyone who doesn't agree with that can choose the buyback route, but IMO hacking the car up trying to shoehorn an SCR Catalyst and DEF injection system is the WORST CASE SCENARIO FIX offered for 1st Generations.

I've noticed a theme in your many posts. You GUARANTEE things a lot! You could very well be right about a variety of these topics....but I doubt that you are an omnipotent sorcerer. A word to the wise...you sound like less of an a$$hat if you say imo as opposed to your countless guarantees.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Here comes the SHARKS - Here comes the SHARKS

IF the fix is done ... and say you collect the GENEROUS $$$$s

We all know we must feed the SHARKS ... where is the $$$$s to pay the bloody SHARKS

IF the buy back is done for the GENEROUS $$$$s ... where is the $$$$s to pay the bloody SHARKS

 

[durundal]

So we should all park these ticking time bombs until a decision is made?
No way. This is VW's problem now, not mine.

Unfortunately it could become your problem when a person doesn't look up from their phone and T-bones you at an intersection. Maybe it'll be possible to get the above-current-market-value money out of VW in that case but virtually guaranteed it will be more hassle than handing them the keys. It seems like it would be easy enough to go to small claims and get a judgement against them but that's a risk and hassle you have to take on. This obviously only works for those lucky enough to be able to float an extra vehicle while waiting for VW to get their act together.

 

[mc4nam]

MINT VW for sale, still drives straight(ish).

Nice! Is that you and your lovely Wife during the test drive?

 

[LogicBomb]

Nice! Is that you and your lovely Wife during the test drive?

Random "wrecked VW" Google images provided me with.

 

[ATR]

I can guarantee you will not get a dime unless you choose the buyback, or the fix.
2nd & 3rd Generation TDI's are most likely nothing more than a VERY simple MINOR software flash.
1st Generation TDI's may NOT be able to be fixed at all OR WORSE YET, their "FIX" will consist of hacking the car full of holes with MONKEYS shoehorning an afterthought SCR retrofit + GIANT SCR Catalyst which the car was never designed for in the first place.
In other words, the possible "FIX" for all 1st Generation TDI's could be the WORST OUTCOME of all scenarios Presented so far, IF they even offer any fix at all for 1st Gen cars, it may be something of a compromise which won't get the cars fully into compliance, but gets them closer, depends on CARB/EPA Allows that or not.
A simple software flash "FIX" for all 1st Generation cars would be the BEST IMO no matter what it does to MPG/Performance I care less, it will be REMOVED the minute we get the car back.
Anyone who doesn't agree with that can choose the buyback route, but IMO hacking the car up trying to shoehorn an SCR Catalyst and DEF injection system is the WORST CASE SCENARIO FIX offered for 1st Generations.

Just so you know it was reported earlier in the thread that SCR was a design element of the mkvi gen 1. It was tossed in favor of the software due to costs... or so the story goes. My point is that SCR is doable with our cars... I just don't know if I'd touch it as a dealer installed add on.

 

[dslman]

I've noticed a theme in your many posts. You GUARANTEE things a lot! You could very well be right about a variety of these topics....but I doubt that you are an omnipotent sorcerer. A word to the wise...you sound like less of an a$$hat if you say imo as opposed to your countless guarantees.

Does anyone here really think VW will pay any owner a dime if they don't do anything?

Every VW Owner to get Generous Compensation weather they:

A: Get the car fixed
B: Sell the car back
C: Do nothing at all


Right.......

 

[newbeetleman]

cam someone fix this quote? The picture is pushing everything off to the right making it hard to view.

 

[newbeetleman]

Well, since this is on a new page it isn't affecting anything anymore.

 

[k1xv]

The dealers probably aren't as well informed as the people reading this thread.

This week, when having my winter tires/wheels replaced with summer, the VW service writer told me that there would be "no problem" modifying my 2009 car for urea injection.

Waiting to see the terms of the buyout, and the additional incentives to replace with another VW. I need an AWD something.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Buyback will be like "Cash for Clunkers"...

Except if my timing belt goes I'm out $4000. Or my HPFP goes (again) I'm sunk.

So my "profit" of $5000 becomes nil. Or is someone sideswipes me on my way to work I can kiss the money goodbye.

I understand what you are saying, but this thing is a ticking time bomb and I don't want to risk a failure.

The gov'ment didn't give a rip if your clunker was a dinged up rusted out mechanical wreck, the only requirement was that it had to move under it's own power. The dealers were the official inspectors of this requirement, and in their haste to grab the C4C $$$ I doubt they would have noticed the coupla friends pushing your clunker into the lot and they'd probably take your word that your clunker "ran". So drive more, worry less!

 

[dslman]

I've noticed a theme in your many posts. You GUARANTEE things a lot! You could very well be right about a variety of these topics....but I doubt that you are an omnipotent sorcerer. A word to the wise...you sound like less of an a$$hat if you say imo as opposed to your countless guarantees.

You said I GUARANTEE A LOT?

That was the 1st and only time I ever used the word: GUARANTEE it was on the fact (IMO) nobody will get any Generous Compensation unless they A: Get the FIX or B: SELL IT BACK.

Why do you think they offered any Generous Compensation at all in the first place?

 

[Gonehuckin]

For those of you arguing that you're parking your car due to the threat of a total loss in a collision, more power to you. However, (knocks on wood) if I'm in that bad of an accident most likely I'd have the kids in the car and I'll just be happy if we walk away and the car did it's protection job.

 

[dslman]

Just so you know it was reported earlier in the thread that SCR was a design element of the mkvi gen 1. It was tossed in favor of the software due to costs... or so the story goes. My point is that SCR is doable with our cars... I just don't know if I'd touch it as a dealer installed add on.

AGREED.

I have NO problem with SCR factory built diesel car, and ANYTHING is possible with enough money thrown at it, but I would NEVER want a car that had a USA MONKEY DEALER hacked in SCR.

What is meant by not designed for it, is not the engine, the CAR itself (especially the Beatles) were not designed for SCR, there's no room to physically fit all the components under the car which did not originally have a design to fit all those components in the first place. Not just the tank, heater, lines, etc. but a BIG SCR Catalyst will be needed and those get HOT AS HELL, so they would need to be shielded and installed where they don't catch fires on grass etc.

 

[TCBinaflash]

AGREED.

I have NO problem with SCR factory built diesel car, and ANYTHING is possible with enough money thrown at it, but I would NEVER want a car that had a USA MONKEY DEALER hacked in SCR.

What is meant by not designed for it, is not the engine, the CAR itself (especially the Beatles) were not designed for SCR, there's no room to physically fit all the components under the car which did not originally have a design to fit all those components in the first place. Not just the tank, heater, lines, etc. but a BIG SCR Catalyst will be needed and those get HOT AS HELL, so they would need to be shielded and installed where they don't catch fires on grass etc.

Its fairly obvious to almost everyone that anything not named Jetta or Passat- will not be getting any sort of fix. Too much money and not enough room. And even that is iffy.

Just won't work.

 

[gcodori]

AGREED.
I have NO problem with SCR factory built diesel car, and ANYTHING is possible with enough money thrown at it, but I would NEVER want a car that had a USA MONKEY DEALER hacked in SCR.
What is meant by not designed for it, is not the engine, the CAR itself (especially the Beatles) were not designed for SCR, there's no room to physically fit all the components under the car which did not originally have a design to fit all those components in the first place. Not just the tank, heater, lines, etc. but a BIG SCR Catalyst will be needed and those get HOT AS HELL, so they would need to be shielded and installed where they don't catch fires on grass etc.

I would like to remind owners that the people who work at dealerships are humans too. Many people go into the mechanics field, and some do end up at a dealer.

I understand many here have had bad experiences at a dealership (I've only taken my TDI beetle in ONCE over 265,000 miles). I do my work if I can, and I try to avoid dealerships at all costs. I've never really had a bad experience with a dealer, but if I did, I'd be angry at the dealership and the mechanic, but not EVERY mechanic in the world.

Many people make a living as a mechanic, and those who do so at VW are more than likely to be hurt by this scandal as much as we are. I have many family members work work in the industry - heck, my oldest may go that route.

When we call mechanics MONKEYS, hacks and other derogatory names, especially for work that may not happen (and hasn't happened yet) is just wrong.

You don't want your car fixed? Fine. I don't want mine fixed either. But let's keep the name calling to a minimum. You need to be angry at VW corporate, not some mechanic only doing as instructed.

I mean, there are some local shade tree mechanics that have been staples on this site that have gone to work at shops and garages instead of doing stuff on the side...

 

[y0bailey]

I would like to remind owners that the people who work at dealerships are humans too. Many people go into the mechanics field, and some do end up at a dealer.
I understand many here have had bad experiences at a dealership (I've only taken my TDI beetle in ONCE over 265,000 miles). I do my work if I can, and I try to avoid dealerships at all costs. I've never really had a bad experience with a dealer, but if I did, I'd be angry at the dealership and the mechanic, but not EVERY mechanic in the world.
Many people make a living as a mechanic, and those who do so at VW are more than likely to be hurt by this scandal as much as we are. I have many family members work work in the industry - heck, my oldest may go that route.
When we call mechanics MONKEYS, hacks and other derogatory names, especially for work that may not happen (and hasn't happened yet) is just wrong.
You don't want your car fixed? Fine. I don't want mine fixed either. But let's keep the name calling to a minimum. You need to be angry at VW corporate, not some mechanic only doing as instructed.
I mean, there are some local shade tree mechanics that have been staples on this site that have gone to work at shops and garages instead of doing stuff on the side...

Well said.

 

[dslman]

You don't want your car fixed? Fine. I don't want mine fixed either..... You need to be angry at VW corporate, not some mechanic only doing as instructed...

What makes you think I'm angry?

In 41 years since 1975 I've never found an exceptional MECHANIC that works at a Dealership, they're Parts changers, not MECHANICS.

 

[ATR]

I would like to remind owners that the people who work at dealerships are humans too. Many people go into the mechanics field, and some do end up at a dealer.
I understand many here have had bad experiences at a dealership (I've only taken my TDI beetle in ONCE over 265,000 miles). I do my work if I can, and I try to avoid dealerships at all costs. I've never really had a bad experience with a dealer, but if I did, I'd be angry at the dealership and the mechanic, but not EVERY mechanic in the world.
Many people make a living as a mechanic, and those who do so at VW are more than likely to be hurt by this scandal as much as we are. I have many family members work work in the industry - heck, my oldest may go that route.
When we call mechanics MONKEYS, hacks and other derogatory names, especially for work that may not happen (and hasn't happened yet) is just wrong.
You don't want your car fixed? Fine. I don't want mine fixed either. But let's keep the name calling to a minimum. You need to be angry at VW corporate, not some mechanic only doing as instructed.
I mean, there are some local shade tree mechanics that have been staples on this site that have gone to work at shops and garages instead of doing stuff on the side...

Indeed!!!

Great example of this is:
https://www.youtube.com/user/HumbleMechanic

 

[ATR]

What makes you think I'm angry?
In 41 years since 1975 I've never found an exceptional MECHANIC that works at a Dealership, they're Parts changers, not MECHANICS.

I personally worked at a BMW dealer and while some of them were getting a start in their career there some were exceptional technicians.

 

[gcodori]

What makes you think I'm angry?

Umm, your tone? The fact you used a humiliating and dehumanizing term for them (monkeys)?

In 41 years since 1975 I've never found an exceptional MECHANIC that works at a Dealership, they're Parts changers, not MECHANICS.

I'm sure in your 41 years on this Earth that you've come to realize that dealerships have to follow a certain protocol when it comes to wrenching on your car. They follow a check list of items. Yes. it's not the way most shade tree mechanics would do it. It's just their policy that they have to act "robotic" and do things "by the book." Your anger is misplaced at the worker instead of the dealership/corporate policy behind their actions.
Funny how no one would go into a dentist's office and say "yeah I went to the dentist and told him I knew I had a root canal and I wanted him to grind my tooth down with a 1/8 polisher bit but he said it's standard policy to x-ray first and make sure. What a hack. All dentists are trained monkeys, they simply drill and fill, no creativity at all!" But we get mad when a dealer simply goes straight to "replace the whole item" instead of splicing a resistor into the sensor wire like the forum suggested. Who would have thunk it!
That's the dealers policy. That's why there are other places to take your car.

 

[kitarkus]

Does anyone here really think VW will pay any owner a dime if they don't do anything?
Every VW Owner to get Generous Compensation weather they:
A: Get the car fixed
B: Sell the car back
C: Do nothing at all
Right.......

I can't speak for everyone. I'm always very clear to speak only for myself....and to voice conjecture as opinion. Try it...you might make more friends.
Whether you use the specific word "guarantee" or not is irrelevant. You consistently post your opinions about issues which are yet to be definitively determined and you state them as if they are facts. This might work under your own roof, but it does not endear you to me whatsoever. Simply preface your posts with an "imo" or similar....like I said....you'll appear less of the a$$hat....currently you are tipping my a$$hat meter so much that I had to install new batteries.

Just so you know....we all have opinions. It just seems that your opinions are a bit more 'important' than everyone else's....heck....why wouldn't they be more important?....you state them as if they are facts!

 

[dslman]

I'm sure in your 41 years on this Earth that.... bla bla bla

I was 15 years old in 1975 when I had my first of many BAD EXPERIENCES with a Stealealership.
Just 1 of many examples:
6 years ago when California changed laws and started smog checking Diesels from 1998 on, my 1998 TDI FAILED, VW gave me an estimate anywhere from $1600 to $3200 to "FIX IT and pass" Claiming it needed all this new crap, including a brand new ECU.
I researched the code on this forum right here, found a tread about a tiny 3/4 inch vacuum tube inside the ECU may have a crack in it, and that was my problem. I didn't believe it, but guess what? The thread was CORRECT!
I replaced that 3/4 inch tube with a .02 cent new one, put it all back together, cleared the code and all was fixed perfectly in a few hours!
No "Mechanics" at any VW Stealership even had a clue about any of it.
That's just one example of probably over 2000 others dating since 1975.
Another good one was $650 to replace the MAF. What a scam!
I bought a brand new BOSCH MAF on eBay for $80 & replaced it myself with a flat head screwdriver in 5 Minutes! GOOD AS NEW! This was on a 2000 TDI, right after wards I drove to Simi Valley and back, (about 345 Miles) went back to the same pump, figured my MPG and it only took 5.76 gallons of B20 to fill it right back to the same as when I left.
59.8MPG!
Don't even get me started on all the dozens of Rabbit Diesels I fixed throughout the 1990's with blown head gaskets 3000 miles after they were just repaired by a VW dealership because nobody knew what they were doing torquing the head bolts correctly! YES, VW DEALERSHIPS!

 

[Ch3No2]

Except if my timing belt goes I'm out $4000. Or my HPFP goes (again) I'm sunk.

So my "profit" of $5000 becomes nil. Or is someone sideswipes me on my way to work I can kiss the money goodbye.

I understand what you are saying, but this thing is a ticking time bomb and I don't want to risk a failure.

I just went through the exact same scenario...2010 with 186k miles...took it in last week for the first belt change...$1250 less the $500 dealer card...now it's parked and I am back to driving my F350 at 15 mpg because if someone hit me I would only get about $5k from insurance on the total

 

[gcodori]

I was 15 years old in 1975 when I had my first of many BAD EXPERIENCES with a Stealealership.
Just 1 of many examples:
6 years ago when California changed laws and started smog checking Diesels from 1998 on, my 1998 TDI FAILED, VW gave me an estimate anywhere from $1600 to $3200 to "FIX IT and pass" Claiming it needed all this new crap, including a brand new ECU.
I researched the code on this forum right here, found a tread about a tiny 3/4 inch vacuum tube inside the ECU may have a crack in it, and that was my problem. I didn't believe it, but guess what? The thread was CORRECT!
I replaced that 3/4 inch tube with a .02 cent new one, put it all back together, cleared the code and all was fixed perfectly in a few hours!
No "Mechanics" at any VW Stealership even had a clue about any of it.
That's just one example of probably over 2000 others dating since 1975.
Another good one was $650 to replace the MAF. What a scam!
I bought a brand new BOSCH MAF on eBay for $80 & replaced it myself with a flat head screwdriver in 5 Minutes! GOOD AS NEW! This was on a 2000 TDI, right after wards I drove to Simi Valley and back, (about 345 Miles) went back to the same pump, figured my MPG and it only took 5.76 gallons of B20 to fill it right back to the same as when I left.
59.8MPG!
Don't even get me started on all the dozens of Rabbit Diesels I fixed throughout the 1990's with blown head gaskets 3000 miles after they were just repaired by a VW dealership because nobody knew what they were doing torquing the head bolts correctly! YES, VW DEALERSHIPS!

As someone who also lives in a CARB state (CA) and owns pre-clean diesels - the smog tests for cars like yours and mine (I have a 2001 NB TDI) is visual only with a check for engine codes.

So unless your car was running with the check engine light on (and why didn't you fix that ahead of time?) and was blowing smoke from the tailpipe, your car would pass CA smog tests.

Heck, mine passed with the ABS light on (bad sensor I haven't gotten around to yet) 2 years ago and I'm due for another this month.

So it sounds like you had an issue with your car and still took it to a dealer for a fix even though you have had bad experiences since 1975.

Sounds more like your a glutton for punishment.

 

[dslman]

I just went through the exact same scenario...2010 with 186k miles...took it in last week for the first belt change...$1250 less the $500 dealer card...now it's parked and I am back to driving my F350 at 15 mpg because if someone hit me I would only get about $5k from insurance on the total

It's too bad you couldn't have done the work yourself. It only actually costs about $249 for a complete OEM timing belt kit & even includes a new water pump impeller.
ONE EXAMPLE