Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[Tfuce]

I am now leaning to the theory that everyone in the supervisory positions are guilty unless they can prove they weren't. Kind of think the German prosecutors are going to nail everyone responsible.

And then they'll have to deal with the US prosecutors. They can share a bunk with Sepp Blatter.

 

[TDI258]

Good explanation of how the PCM was set up to turn off emissions control.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-volkswagen-did-and-how-they-got-caught-2015-9

I had a 2013 Passat TDI and I'm quite sure it used Adblue. Yet the real world study in the above article found it too had elevated amounts of pollutants, though not as much as the Jetta. Since I took the car to the dealer every 10k mi for oil change and Adblue I don't know how much it was using. Did the PCM turn off Adblue injection?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Good explanation of how the PCM was set up to turn off emissions control.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-volkswagen-did-and-how-they-got-caught-2015-9

I had a 2013 Passat TDI and I'm quite sure it used Adblue. Yet the real world study in the above article found it too had elevated amounts of pollutants, though not as much as the Jetta. Since I took the car to the dealer every 10k mi for oil change and Adblue I don't know how much it was using. Did the PCM turn off Adblue injection?

The 2012 - 2014 Passats are injecting way too little AdBlue, about a third of what the industry standard consumption rate is. 1% of fuel consumption vs. the standard of 3% of fuel consumption.

I suspect that increasing the dosing rate to the standard 3% will be enough to bring the Passat's NOx emissions into compliance, or at least very close to it.

 

[Picopower]

Toyota buyback

Some may be in the chips.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080408-120405/

 

[nokivasara]

I'd love to read this study if you can find it.

It was on the news, I'll see if I can find it somewhere.

 

[motorhead2]

Several Class actions are being started. I think that the people on this site can be influential in getting our vehicles fixed RIGHT or our emission equipment warranties extended. Fact to face.... We all have lost a lot of resale value on our cars. I own a 2007, 5.9 Cummins powered Dodge 4x4. It was built in December of 2006 so it didn't get any DPF ect. I paid $31,000 plus tax and license. Eight years later, it is still very sellable for $27,000-$29,000 BECAUSE it is a diesel. A comparable equiped Dodge with a gas engine worth less than half.
Before buying my 2012 TDI sportwagen, I had looked at some of the earlier Jetta diesels 2005 and older. All of them were high priced with 150,000 to 200,000 miles.

 

[amstel78]

Second that. LoL

It must be nubie day.

Indeed.

While I don't mind getting a buyout (my 5 year old daughter wants a Challenger Hellcat), I'm not holding my breath either.

Plus, my Golf doesn't have any emissions equipment (mah new track sled; not street driven) either since my DPF broke years ago and Vdub didn't want to be bothered helping me, so it's not like I've been hugging any trees lately.

Them baby seals sure are tasty. This is me massaging the meat after knocking them out with my N0x fumez:

 

[VWturbodiesel]

It's true about AdBlue

NOx reacts with ammonia, moisture, and other compounds to form nitric acid vapor and related particles.

Good explanation of how the PCM was set up to turn off emissions control.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-volkswagen-did-and-how-they-got-caught-2015-9

I had a 2013 Passat TDI and I'm quite sure it used Adblue. Yet the real world study in the above article found it too had elevated amounts of pollutants, though not as much as the Jetta. Since I took the car to the dealer every 10k mi for oil change and Adblue I don't know how much it was using. Did the PCM turn off Adblue injection?

 

[Nuje]

I just bought almost $10,000 worth of stock in Volkswagon this morning.
I'm considering buying a little more

I looked at the $10K of VLKAY that I bought at $37 a couple years ago (and considered selling at $52 earlier this year...but held off, waiting to make a 50% profit...which is gonna take a lot longer now ), but yeah - i'm thinking of buying some more now, too.

I mean, if Ford can continue selling cars and growing its market value after admitting to knowing its gas tanks exploded but deciding that paying out the victims' families was cheaper than fixing the gas tanks...I think VW should be able to weather this storm.

 

[divewreck]

Got my smog test yesterday

Considering that my A3 is due for registration & smog test in Nov, I had it done yesterday. It's good for 3 months & felt that CARB might impose restrictions on testing. Now I hope they don't invalidate it.

 

[Singuy]

I just bought almost $10,000 worth of stock in Volkswagon this morning.

I'm considering buying a little more

You think it's a good idea? The stocks will most likely have a massive drop once they announce what the fix is and how much the true cost of the mess will be.

There's really no good news coming from the immediate future of Volkswagen. It's impossible to balance profit/customer's trust/ethics and customer satisfaction in a time like this.

 

[St.Hubbins]

how interesting that Pope Frankie & Barry O got all high and mighty today about air pollution and climate change. purely coincidental timing, I'm sure ��

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34337942

 

[SageBrush]

There are lots of questions still out there. The first is who knew about at at the time that the work was done (back in 2007/2008, I guess)? We don't know, but the more people that knew, the more likely it is that someone along the way would have resigned and/or ratted them out.

For that matter it is possible that Winterkorn didn't know about it until the EPA blocked the 2016 cars. At that point the CEO starts asking hard questions and getting even harder answers.

Or it is possible that he knew all along. We will just have to wait and see..

It doesn't work that way. Don't you watch TV ?

Mafioso: I don't like that guy. Erase him
Killer: OK boss

Years later in court ...
Mafioso: When I said "erase" I meant take him off the payroll. I'm appalled!
Prosecutor: But you gave the instruction to a killer
Mafioso: No kidding ? I only knew him as a kind hearted nephew

 

[licoriceallsort]

From Wired, an explanation of how the car detects it's in test mode:

[C]omputer sensors monitored the steering column. Under normal driving conditions, the column oscillates as the driver negotiates turns. But during emissions testing, the wheels of the car move, but the steering wheel doesn’t. That seems to have have been the signal for the "defeat device" to turn the catalytic scrubber up to full power, allowing the car to pass the test.

 

[makattack]

The 2012 - 2014 Passats are injecting way too little AdBlue, about a third of what the industry standard consumption rate is. 1% of fuel consumption vs. the standard of 3% of fuel consumption.

I suspect that increasing the dosing rate to the standard 3% will be enough to bring the Passat's NOx emissions into compliance, or at least very close to it.

I haven't read/seen any concrete evidence the EA288 2.0L motors with the SCR system are using the appropriate percentage, but I do know those vehicles (which includes mine) are part of the recall/suspended sales.

I wonder if I'll have to add more of the DEF before the 10K maintenance after the recall fix is rolled out?

Imagine the future when auto manufacturers can roll out software updates wirelessly... and owners attempt to hack their own cars results in a DMCA notice.

 

[nokivasara]

It was on the news, I'll see if I can find it somewhere.

Here's a test from 2012.
https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/globalassets/global/vag/miljo/hallbarhet-light-2012.pdf

 

[TO_TDI]

Steering angle sensor. Usually mounted somewhere in the column. Used in conjunction with SIR (airbag) and ABS (stability) modules, and apparently in the case of VW to assist in detecting when testing was being performed.

There is a steering angle sensor on the input shaft into the electric power steering.

 

[Shife]

There is a steering angle sensor on the input shaft into the electric power steering.

Yeah, I know. Did you read what I wrote?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

From Wired, an explanation of how the car detects it's in test mode:

That's extremely oversimplified. The ECU takes several parameters into account, not just steering angle. Wired really dumbed it down for the average reader.

 

[Shife]

Imagine the future when auto manufacturers can roll out software updates wirelessly... and owners attempt to hack their own cars results in a DMCA notice.

I expect to see that end up in the courts, although there is no way I would speculate on the outcome of that one.

 

[av8or]

Well, I work for a company in the automotive industry. With about 35 people in my actual office, only 3 of them had even heard anything was going on.
I've been posting stuff on my Facebook feed for a few days now and most of my friends don't have any idea whatsoever that any scandal is actually in place with respect to Volkswagen.
This story is about 90% more important to any of us then it is the rest of the real world. Heck, I had people in my office that were "surprised" my car was a diesel and were further surprised that diesel cars (not trucks) were even made anymore.

Amazing! It's been front-page news in most newspapers, all over the network TV news last night and today, the headliner in the WSJ, on every radio news event i've listened to since Friday, and plastered all over the internet news feeds. Those folks you refer to must be wired to their I-pods listening to their tunes.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I haven't read/seen any concrete evidence the EA288 2.0L motors with the SCR system are using the appropriate percentage, but I do know those vehicles (which includes mine) are part of the recall/suspended sales.

I haven't heard or read any specifics on the EA288, either. In the Passat forum, we have an AdBlue consumption tracking thread that indicates owners are at 1% of fuel consumption, compared to the industry average of 3%.

I wonder if I'll have to add more of the DEF before the 10K maintenance after the recall fix is rolled out?

If the 1/3 ratio from above is correct, then yes. As a Passat owner, I expect AdBlue refill interval to go from 18,000 miles down to about 6,000 miles (the current reported range is 15,000 - 20,000 miles). I'm okay with that, as it isn't much of an inconvenience to fill it, and the cost is negligible.

 

[pkhoury]

Several Class actions are being started. I think that the people on this site can be influential in getting our vehicles fixed RIGHT or our emission equipment warranties extended. Fact to face.... We all have lost a lot of resale value on our cars. I own a 2007, 5.9 Cummins powered Dodge 4x4. It was built in December of 2006 so it didn't get any DPF ect. I paid $31,000 plus tax and license. Eight years later, it is still very sellable for $27,000-$29,000 BECAUSE it is a diesel. A comparable equiped Dodge with a gas engine worth less than half.
Before buying my 2012 TDI sportwagen, I had looked at some of the earlier Jetta diesels 2005 and older. All of them were high priced with 150,000 to 200,000 miles.

On that note, I was curious and checked my value on KBB about a week and a half ago. As of yesterday, it's already gone down about $1800 in value, which is relatively substantial (keeping in mind that I put 138K miles and the same zip code/options each time I looked up the value.

Yup, diesels hold their value very good. I really want/need a diesel truck for my ranch, but it's not in the budget for this reason (and you won't catch me dead with a gasser).

 

[eav]

would be cheaper for them, than the fine, i doubt any diesel originally cost more than the fine. maybe give us the options, lol

My 2015 Sportwagen TDI cost over $40,000 then I added $2,500 in sound deadening and $1,100 in window tinting. I also purchased a three year service contract.

I went on a month long road trip with the Sportwagen, during that that trip both my sister and my wife developed serious respiratory issues. I ended up being hospitalized for three days for the same thing, it took almost 2 months to fully recover.

 

[n1acguy]

Fortunately for you, we posted one just over twelve hours ago. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=448336

Great idea and nicely arranged. Thank you

 

[SageBrush]

If the new engine models are indeed Euro 6 and EPA compliant w/o a cheat then this story boils down to VW cheating until they had a compliant car to sell.

That might be a technical ending to the story, unless sure to be done testing shows that on-road emissions are still higher than the expected from the dyno. That just might lead to new tests and inability to meet requirements.

I hope this notion of *actual* emission reduction and limits spreads to all vehicles.

 

[Lightflyer1]

On that note, I was curious and checked my value on KBB about a week and a half ago. As of yesterday, it's already gone down about $1800 in value, which is relatively substantial (keeping in mind that I put 138K miles and the same zip code/options each time I looked up the value.

Yup, diesels hold their value very good. I really want/need a diesel truck for my ranch, but it's not in the budget for this reason (and you won't catch me dead with a gasser).

I just sold my 2013 Passat SEL TDI a week before all this came out due to an impending layoff at my company. Checked KBB. $$20,034 in VG condition then. Sold to CarMax for $18k. Someone brought this up a day or so ago and I checked KBB again, same price. Checked just now and still the same price. As far as I can see there has been no change in published values at all.

 

[ericy]

Here is an interesting story from someone at the EPA who had the job of finding "defeat devices":

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/09/22...il&utm_term=0_d002dfc067-f829ccc47c-332083005

When I worked at the EPA, finding these defeat devices was “part of the job.” We never had any trouble with the Japanese, but all the other manufacturers were doing highly suspect things. With microprocessor engine controls in every car, it is very hard to find what is going on.

Once, a VW was in the middle of failing a 100,000-mile driving test (pollution devices had to work for 100,000 miles) and suddenly caught fire, so the test had to be restarted. EPA engineers joked they were sure they saw a broken “Molotov cocktail” on the road next to the car. There were some other VW shenanigans, but they were too complicated to explain. I owned a VW at the time, but it was falling apart constantly so I had no sympathy whatever for VW.

It goes on from there..

 

[n1acguy]

Amazing! It's been front-page news in most newspapers, all over the network TV news last night and today, the headliner in the WSJ, on every radio news event i've listened to since Friday, and plastered all over the internet news feeds. Those folks you refer to must be wired to their I-pods listening to their tunes.

Well with cookies, these news sites give you a lot of what they think interests you.
My Yahoo page has about 6 different articles listed about the scandal. If I read articles about Hollywierd stars (I don't) that's probably all I'd see on my news feed.
They are only telling us what they think we want to hear

 

[n1acguy]

Here is an interesting story from someone at the EPA who had the job of finding "defeat devices":

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/09/22...il&utm_term=0_d002dfc067-f829ccc47c-332083005



It goes on from there..

The author seems to really like the Japanese and made no mention of Honda getting busted for it. Hmmmm