Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
You're not making any sense.
You've had use of a fuel efficient, fun to drive vehicle for 6 years and somehow you think you are entitled to full purchase price from 2010?!?

Other than the increased NoX, what part is NOT the car you bought?
Fuel mileage and HP ratings not what was advertised? Maybe they cheated on the torque ratings?
What were you expecting that you did not receive?

We the people of the US who formed a government for our own benefit were willfully sold a vehicle that violated our laws.

It doesnt matter if you believe in the law. VW and we the people have many ways of redress for bad laws. Breaking the law is a matter of last recourse when your voice is not heard. It should never be the first option.

I find it sad that when a corporation breaks our laws that we might not agree with it is somehow ok. Its time we thought more like; our laws, our land, our government and punished everyone equally for criminal behaviour.
 

BQuebec

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
Audi A3 TDI Progressiv 2012
VW plan to fix the DieselGates approved

Under the plan approved by U.S. authorities at a court hearing in California, the 2.0 TDI owners will have all possible choices to resolve Dieselgates: buy back, because the modification and cancellation of lease options.

According to Jalopnik website, the owners who's decide to return their TDI have just to drive down to the local dealer, sign Some papers, and get a check for the value of the year for most extra $ 5,000.

But what the value of the car estimated by VW? The trade-in value OR the Average Asking Price?

This information is important because the trade-in value is often less than 25% to 40% than the actual sale value of the car (to pay sales commission, buisness profit, refurbishment of the vehicle).

If I decide to keep my TDI as it is, do I have the right to receive the $ 5,000 compensation?

Personally, I will refuse to repair the vehicle, because there will be a significant impact on car performance.

The articles on the subjects promise a detailed plan for the owner in the month of June 2016. But I would like to know now all of my real choice.

http://jalopnik.com/vw-finally-has-a-plan-to-fix-dieselgate-heres-the-whol-1772346691

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/04/volkswagens-buyback-might-worse-environmentally-crime/

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagens-make-this-go-away-dieselgate-fund-just-rose-1772517646

Owner of a a Black 2012 Audi A3 TDI with 88.000 miles.

Thanks.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
We the people of the US who formed a government for our own benefit were willfully sold a vehicle that violated our laws.
It doesnt matter if you believe in the law. VW and we the people have many ways of redress for bad laws. Breaking the law is a matter of last recourse when your voice is not heard. It should never be the first option.
I find it sad that when a corporation breaks our laws that we might not agree with it is somehow ok. Its time we thought more like; our laws, our land, our government and punished everyone equally for criminal behaviour.
 

Gonehuckin

Active member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Pdx
TDI
2010 jetta wagon
You're not making any sense.
You've had use of a fuel efficient, fun to drive vehicle for 6 years and somehow you think you are entitled to full purchase price from 2010?!?

Other than the increased NoX, what part is NOT the car you bought?
Fuel mileage and HP ratings not what was advertised? Maybe they cheated on the torque ratings?
What were you expecting that you did not receive?
I'm not who you're talking to but I have in writing quite a few things that weren't delivered and proof of other things VW knew were a significant problem but they decided not to change or stand behind. This is the one issue they got caught by the wrong people for (the government decided to care about this issue), they have a rotten corporate culture and I have NO problem turning the screws now that us customers have some might behind us.
 

CHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Location
The Great Pacific Northwest
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 4D DSG (gone buyback)
Regarding several of the recent posts as well as the rumored $5,000 “additional compensation.” After following (suffering through?) Threadzilla for 7 months now, I thought I would finally chime in with my 2 cents. Disclaimer: this is speculation and others may have already made some of these points.

The “additional compensation” has two components:
1) for the EPA and CARB, part of the amount serves as an incentive to get the cars either modified or off the road (through buyback). The incentive has to be great enough to encourage a high percentage of TDI owners to assent to one of these options. Note that EPA and CARB don’t want to play the bad guys—they would prefer that vehicles be brought in voluntarily through incentives rather than telling owners that registrations won’t be renewed;
2) for the class-action plaintiffs, part of the amount serves to compensate members of the class for financial harm caused by VW’s illegal and deceptive practices, including loss of vehicle value; potential performance or fuel economy impacts from vehicle modifications (if owners choose that route); and what I call “limbo impacts,” the direct financial harm or inconvenience from the uncertain status of the vehicle since news of the scandal broke. Examples of “limbo impacts” on this forum include being unable to trade-in the vehicle or delaying a needed but expensive vehicle repair. I had to buy my wife a new vehicle in January and was refused trade-in of my Golf TDI due to the diesel scandal. A trade in at the pre-scandal value of about $15,000 would have saved me $1,500 in sales tax on the new vehicle—an example of direct financial harm.

I expect that the incentive part of the additional compensation may be a fixed amount for each vehicle or will vary based on their future pollution potential, essentially, related to the question “how much does EPA/CARB want to get that particular vehicle off the road?” This could vary between Gen 1, Gen 2, and Gen 3, and could also be less with high-mileage vehicles, with the assumption that they don’t have many years of life left to pollute. The current owner of record would be allowed to claim the incentive compensation within the period allotted in the final settlement.

Regarding the class-action part of the additional compensation, as with any class action settlement, there has to be a definition and categorization of the “class,” that is, who was impacted by the illegal or deceptive actions of the defendant, and to what extent. Compensation can and does vary greatly among members of a class. I would expect a breakdown of the VW class based on 1) whether vehicle was purchased new or used, 2) when the vehicle was purchased, and 3) pre-scandal vehicle value (accounting for miles and possibly condition). A couple of extreme examples: someone who buys a used 2009 Jetta TDI tomorrow in anticipation of a buyback and generous additional compensation may receive less than someone who bought a new Passat last July. The individual who buys the 2009 Jetta tomorrow hasn’t suffered financial harm due to VW’s illegal and deceptive practices—given the information that’s come to light since September, including admissions of guilt by VW, they know exactly what they are buying and it should be reflected in the price. Likewise, the owner of a 2009 Jetta with 200K miles would receive less than the owner of a 2014 Jetta with 30K miles. Why? The original owner of a 2009 Jetta with 200K miles has incurred less harm—they’ve driven the vehicle they bought, unmodified, for nearly 8 years, virtually exhausting its useful life.

The definition and categorization of class gets sticky when talking about someone who panic-sold their TDI in November for a fraction of its pre-scandal value. Who is in the class, the seller or the buyer? Can both be members of the class? How would their additional compensation vary? These are the types of issues that will be ironed out over the next 2 months. For debate purposes, I’ll stick my neck out and say that the class-action compensation would go only to owners of record at the time the scandal broke, with some special allowances for individuals who bought their vehicles shortly thereafter. They would be the only individuals who could claim harm by VW’s deception.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Location
Virginia
TDI
'13 Jetta TDI
Unfortunately, the sales staff is often not informed of things by corporate, and they don't go out of their way to find information out on their own. If I were a sales guy, I'd want to know about my product, especially in a situation like Dieselgate where your livelihood as a salesman is on the line.
Yup. I can count on one hand the number of times a salesman knew more about the vehicle that I was looking at than I did. I.e. The most recent example was a GM salesman (went to check out a Sierra 1500). The guy says "let's take that one there for a drive...it's got a nice stance." It was tall because it wasn't a 1500...the one he was looking at was a 2500 (which makes the 1500 look like a toy truck). His product knowledge didn't go uphill from there.

I don't expect salesmen to be able to quote every option in every package, but they should be able to tell the vehicles apart.
 

TCBinaflash

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Location
Chagrin Falls, OH
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
My 2010 has 13K miles on it, I only drive it to and from store parking lots, as I drive my Porsche to work, and other events. So it's possible to have a low mileage car.

I didn't say it wasn't possible but it is a little shocking for this peasant to fully fathom I guess.

I've never met anyone in my 40 years that has a second car for just going to the grocery store.

Is this common and I'm just in the minority?
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
Yup. I can count on one hand the number of times a salesman knew more about the vehicle that I was looking at than I did. I.e. The most recent example was a GM salesman (went to check out a Sierra 1500). The guy says "let's take that one there for a drive...it's got a nice stance." It was tall because it wasn't a 1500...the one he was looking at was a 2500 (which makes the 1500 look like a toy truck). His product knowledge didn't go uphill from there.

I don't expect salesmen to be able to quote every option in every package, but they should be able to tell the vehicles apart.
The one exception to this that I have experienced was at the Tesla store. The staff was very knowledgeable and knew exactly how to demonstrate all of the features on a test drive without being overbearing.
 

GSwag

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Location
Georgia
TDI
2013 Passat
We the people of the US who formed a government for our own benefit were willfully sold a vehicle that violated our laws.
It doesnt matter if you believe in the law. VW and we the people have many ways of redress for bad laws. Breaking the law is a matter of last recourse when your voice is not heard. It should never be the first option.
I find it sad that when a corporation breaks our laws that we might not agree with it is somehow ok. Its time we thought more like; our laws, our land, our government and punished everyone equally for criminal behaviour.
I like that. Need more like you
 

Ch3No2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Location
So Cal
TDI
Jetta Wagon
OK..first I apologize for the lengthy post....
I go in to the dealer for it's first timing belt change at 196k miles tomorrow.
I did wait until the court decision to pull the plug. When I bought this 5 1/2 years ago I was delighted to save 25 mpg over my F350 diesel which has been parked pretty much since and after doing the math in fuel savings of $27,000 compared to the Ford it paid for itself.
My question for comment is since it is a 2010 which from what I read is going to be bought back since it's a Gen 1, I am wondering if I should just park it and go back to the Ford and 15 mpg so as not to take a chance in being hit and the car totaled thus losing all gains of retro Blue book and possible 5k in the buy back.
I am leaning towards parking it for 2 months until the "arrangement" is worked out
Thanks for your time
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
OK..first I apologize for the lengthy post....
I go in to the dealer for it's first timing belt change at 196k miles tomorrow.
I did wait until the court decision to pull the plug. When I bought this 5 1/2 years ago I was delighted to save 25 mpg over my F350 diesel which has been parked pretty much since and after doing the math in fuel savings of $27,000 compared to the Ford it paid for itself.
My question for comment is since it is a 2010 which from what I read is going to be bought back since it's a Gen 1, I am wondering if I should just park it and go back to the Ford and 15 mpg so as not to take a chance in being hit and the car totaled thus losing all gains of retro Blue book and possible 5k in the buy back.
I am leaning towards parking it for 2 months until the "arrangement" is worked out
Thanks for your time
You're nearly 80,000 miles late for your first timing belt change, which should occur at every 120,000 miles.
 

TDILeo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Location
Portland OR
TDI
CW 2011 Golf TDI 6M Repurchased By VW 1/30/17 1985 VW GTI
All would be forgiven if VW offered the Sportwagen R, only available in Europe, in the US, with a manual transmission. Oh, and everyone with a 2009-2015 TDI could trade for it. Nothing less will satisfy this 2013 JSW TDI owner. :)
How 'bout a Scirocco R?
 

Ch3No2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Location
So Cal
TDI
Jetta Wagon
You're nearly 80,000 miles late for your first timing belt change, which should occur at every 120,000 miles.
Oh I get that I was driving a time bomb but I wanted to know what was going to happen in court...not that it matters but it was 99.9% freeway.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
Oh I get that I was driving a time bomb but I wanted to know what was going to happen in court...not that it matters but it was 99.9% freeway.
With regard to our recommendation on whether or not you should keep driving it, I guess my only response is "do you feel lucky?"
 

Chris

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2000
Location
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, USA
We the people of the US who formed a government for our own benefit were willfully sold a vehicle that violated our laws.
It doesnt matter if you believe in the law. VW and we the people have many ways of redress for bad laws. Breaking the law is a matter of last recourse when your voice is not heard. It should never be the first option.
I find it sad that when a corporation breaks our laws that we might not agree with it is somehow ok. Its time we thought more like; our laws, our land, our government and punished everyone equally for criminal behaviour.
Looks like someone learned the magic phrase.

Does this make any sense to the rest of you?
 

Ch3No2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Location
So Cal
TDI
Jetta Wagon
With regard to our recommendation on whether or not you should keep driving it, I guess my only response is "do you feel lucky?"
Seems like that's not a "recommendation" but to answer your statement between both vehicles its about 400,000 miles of "luck".
 

jhawklver

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Location
Kansas City
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
Seems like that's not a "recommendation" but to answer your statement between both vehicles its about 400,000 miles of "luck".
Impossible for any of us to answer for you because we don't know how much you drive (seems like a lot), driving history (keep cars for a long time so probably not many wrecks, etc.).

If I had a second car I'd likely be driving it. I definitely would be driving it and not going to the dealer to pay for a timing belt in a car that may very likely be bought back.

Would suck going back to 15 mpg though!
 

flyanddive

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Location
Michigan
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
I'm not sure where you got this idea that they're going to swap in a new engine for you - and from what I can surmise from your posts in other threads, a gasoline engine. :confused:

There is a gag order on the negotiations through June 21st. Nobody here knows what the actual outcome is going to be at this point.
My particular car can't be brought up to standards without replacing the engine, and exhaust system. Sure it could be redesigned to meet standards, but that is a massive engineering undertaking for a car that is 7 years old. I'm an engineer, I can't stress enough how expensive it will be for VW to fix these cars. The cheapest option for them is the buyback, followed by conversion of these cars to their gas version.
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
I go in to the dealer for it's first timing belt change at 196k miles tomorrow.

I am wondering if I should just park it
Park it instead of taking it to the dealer and tow it in when it's time to return the keys with the roadside service you got from the goodwill package.
 

thanksimgruven

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Location
Colorado
TDI
2010 JSW
Let us know how that turns out.
while technically that sounds correct, and I am in agreement and sentiment, if a U.S. judge, three government agencies and the fraudster come to terms, I'd be surprised a different judge would rule against all that, in favor of individuals, especially in the country where the 'corporation' is determined to be a 'person'.
I hope you win, though.
You are correct. Precisely why i am not part of a class action suit at the moment and would make a great judge.
Welcome to the board!
Lemme guess - You have a 6 year old car with XX,XXX+ miles on it, and joined during the scandal. Now you want MSRP.
You want to profit from the cheating (you got more MPG than you should). Now you want to profit again from the cheating by driving for 6 years scott free.
Upset over the fraud? Willing to hand over the extra money saved by getting more than the EPA mileage? No? I'm shocked! :p
I think we can agree TDI owners come from a diverse background. Personally I will take my compensation money and invest in something that doesn't destroy the environment, that is from an honest/ethical corporation- punishment funds well used by the victim.

If you think the defendant in a case of this magnitude cannot address victims, then your fooling yourselves. lol "gag" order- that's for the media. One phone call to the judge and VW could update us... oh wait, they all resigned!!
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
The one exception to this that I have experienced was at the Tesla store. The staff was very knowledgeable and knew exactly how to demonstrate all of the features on a test drive without being overbearing.
Sorta like an Apple Store. Most auto salespersons are like clerks at Wal-Mart in their depth of product knowledge.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Location
Ohio
TDI
2002 New Beetle 2013 Jetta bought back
Woohoooo!

I gotta say, as much as I enjoy my Jetta, Considering it hasn't had a single trip back to the dealer for anything but service, I am tickled about the lease cancellation. I just wish I could get it done before I have to tow it 850 miles to Florida next week. Any additional $$$ is just gravy.
 

TCBinaflash

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Location
Chagrin Falls, OH
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
My particular car can't be brought up to standards without replacing the engine, and exhaust system. Sure it could be redesigned to meet standards, but that is a massive engineering undertaking for a car that is 7 years old. I'm an engineer, I can't stress enough how expensive it will be for VW to fix these cars. The cheapest option for them is the buyback, followed by conversion of these cars to their gas version.

SCR component to vs engine swap. One seems way more costly than the other. Your the only engineer I've heard say that an engine swap is any sort of solution.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
You are correct. Precisely why i am not part of a class action suit at the moment and would make a great judge.
Actually, it being a "class" action case, you are part of it. The "class" consists of ALL owners of cars from VWAG with 2.0 CR TDI (and some 3.0) engines sold in these United States. If you DON'T want to be in it, then you have to opt out in writing, IIRC. Now whether you will still be eligible for buyback/compensation if you opt out is another question.
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
I don't want to "turn in" the car.

I don't want it to be "fixed".

Will I get any compensation from VW?

Will I be forced to do one of the above?
 

S2000_guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Location
ohio
TDI
2014 Sportwagen TDI
Yes, that is my thought exactly. There's nothing on the market right now that comes close to offering the combo of space, MPG and power as my 2014 JSW TDI. Maybe in a couple of years....

Corbin
Sounds like you're a candidate to be one of the 10% who tell VW to keep their compensation + fix/buyback and drive on.

I may come to that conclusion myself, but I won't put any effort into the decision until there's a firm offer in writing from VW. I don't give a crap about might/maybe/perhaps/etc.
 

thanksimgruven

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Location
Colorado
TDI
2010 JSW
Actually, it being a "class" action case, you are part of it. The "class" consists of ALL owners of cars from VWAG with 2.0 CR TDI (and some 3.0) engines sold in these United States. If you DON'T want to be in it, then you have to opt out in writing, IIRC. Now whether you will still be eligible for buyback/compensation if you opt out is another question.
yeah you're right. I mean I'll take a look at the deal, then not accept offer if applicable..
 
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