Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[Jeta Life]

I had posted before that I think the dealers are getting a raw deal and there's no point in yelling at them -- they weren't the ones that put the cheat in. However, I have some of my worst memories when dealing with dealers, so the sympathy only goes so far.
Anyway, yeah, it's going to be a lot to deal with all at one time, so they're going to have to space things out. Two years seems reasonable. Without any scandal, it's possible that I would have wanted to naturally trade within a couple of years anyway.
So far, this deal sounds reasonable, at least until we hear details and start complaining about what the plan actually is! ;-)

I'm approaching this sort of the same. What I think the 2 year deal is so that VW can buy time to bring in more models and try to lure us back. Problem with waiting it out that long is the possiblity of an expensive repair. I rolled the dice when I bought this TDI and that's the sort of twisted response my psyche battles with.

The TDI is a very unique car. Without even going in to other dealers I could pretty much imagine the bland test drives the Japanese gassers provide. It still is very tough to match their reliability, something that plagued my TDI, the dysfunctional child it is. Some say Honda and Mazda have some soul but right now I'm sort of in "mourning" mode. The Golf and GTI are two gassers I plan on test driving.

Still like my TDI, a little bummed out but gotta go to gassers next go around. I've never been an SUV guy, and it is really tough for me to give up on my European roots with VW and das diesel.

 

[John_Nutt]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKCN0XH0ZV?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

Sorry if this has been posted, forum moving to fast to keep up.

 

[meerschm]

Was this said by volkswagen themselves? or a 3rd party page? does anyone have a link from the statement that vw relseaed?

any solid (ok, published) info sources listed here

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=448336&page=4


VW has only said there is an "agreement in principle".

details to follow.

 

[Marsupial]

What is released is an agreed framework for settlement.

framework includes VW buyback offer, extra cash for those owners who sell back.

extra cash for owners who get the fix (if such a fix is approved)

first opportunity for such action probably this summer. should have two years to decide and participate.

details to be provided later.

(I miss any thing?)

I would not count on any opportunity for action by the summer. June 26th is when the proposed agreement will be released to the public and the public comments period starts. Public comment usually is 90 days so we're already in September. Then these comments have to be taken into account and agreement modified if necessary before it goes for judicial approval. Once approved then offers with options will start going out to owners. Realistically we're talking maybe November/December and that's optimistic.

 

[Marsupial]

Jalopnik has what seems to me a most comprehensive summary of yesterday's hearing with all the most important details quoted and commented on. Check it out:
http://jalopnik.com/vw-finally-has-a-plan-to-fix-dieselgate-heres-the-whol-1772346691

 

[TCBinaflash]

nope, have serviced it myself since the first freebie at 10k (and maybe the 20)...
and i really don't remember providing an odometer reading when registering for the goodwill.
not 100% on that though

They have to match your registration and your physical VIN badge on the car. I don't see how you could have gotten the card without an odometer check

 

[pknopp]

Wrong. Owned a station for years. Mark up is 2-5 cents per gallon, regardless of per gallon price. It's not a percentage like most retail. Lower prices do increase the mark up, because it works out to a higher percentage, but you make pretty much zilch on fuel. When prices drop, you can lose your ass (your stock cost more than going rate), and when they go up, you can make a little (your stock is lower priced than going rate), but it all balances out. With 90% of people using CC's to pay for their fuel, it eats up most of the 5 cent mark up (avg) on fuel. Add a drive off or two per fuel load, and you've lost your "profit". When you see prices drop for extended periods, like we have lately, and like in 2008, you see a lot of little stores closing. They don't sell the volume that the big guys do, so their pricing is out of date because of slower turn over. The dilemma: Keep your prices high enough to cover your cost of fuel (nobody stops in if you are higher than the station next to you), or sell at a loss.
We had a good store and bait and tackle, and an attached repair shop, and that is where the money was made.
The retail side of the fuel business is one of the worst business models out there.
I love how people always blame gas stations for high prices, and think they are making so much money on it. And when you are priced a penny higher than your competitor, we actually had people stop in just to ***** at us for being too high, and then go to the other station, or drive 5 miles out of their way to save 10 cents. It's an odd mentality.

This is going off topic but we all have seen this......A station on one side of town is charging $1.99 and on the other $2.19. Either one is losing a lot of money (unlikely) or the other is making more than the industry tries and claim they make.

I see this regularly at same chain stations even. In a 25 mile radius it's not all that unusual to see .25 cent differences. Or one go to $2.25 and when the others don't follow, drop back to $2.09.

 

[Candymaker]

I might be the only one here that is actually sort of dreading the 6/21 announcement. Having a car that is 100% mine, and a baby since then, I have less than zero desire to get into a new auto loan. However, I live where emissions are checked. Anything they do that doesn't get me into an equivalent car at $0 will have a significant impact on me. I highly doubt they'll come up with a fix to shoe-horn into my tiny car, and I wouldn't trust it at all if they did. I hadn't planned to replace the car until the kid was in school, and out of daycare, giving me a substantial amount of extra cash per month. Ugh.

 

[meerschm]

They have to match your registration and your physical VIN badge on the car. I don't see how you could have gotten the card without an odometer check

There are more than a few posts here which detail various ways in which dealer staff fails to follow procedures.

people take shortcuts. not all, but some....

 

[TCBinaflash]

VW reporting 5.5 billion loss with special expenses related to diesel. They had pre scandal net profit of 15.2 billion- so the diesel buyback program and fines will exceed 20 billion.

 

[YikeGrymon]

I might be the only one here that is actually sort of dreading the 6/21 announcement. Having a car that is 100% mine, and a baby since then, I have less than zero desire to get into a new auto loan. However, I live where emissions are checked. Anything they do that doesn't get me into an equivalent car at $0 will have a significant impact on me. I highly doubt they'll come up with a fix to shoe-horn into my tiny car, and I wouldn't trust it at all if they did. I hadn't planned to replace the car until the kid was in school, and out of daycare, giving me a substantial amount of extra cash per month. Ugh.

I'm in your boat here. Own mine outright, seriously low miles for that year (50,2xx) perfect condition, planned to have for the long term. Haven't had a car payment at all since something like 2004, in no hurry at all to change that. In no hurry to change much of anything related to any of this.

Dreading, yes.

 

[dmarsingill]

Wrong. Owned a station for years. Mark up is 2-5 cents per gallon, regardless of per gallon price. It's not a percentage like most retail. Lower prices do increase the mark up, because it works out to a higher percentage, but you make pretty much zilch on fuel. When prices drop, you can lose your ass (your stock cost more than going rate), and when they go up, you can make a little (your stock is lower priced than going rate), but it all balances out. With 90% of people using CC's to pay for their fuel, it eats up most of the 5 cent mark up (avg) on fuel. Add a drive off or two per fuel load, and you've lost your "profit". When you see prices drop for extended periods, like we have lately, and like in 2008, you see a lot of little stores closing. They don't sell the volume that the big guys do, so their pricing is out of date because of slower turn over. The dilemma: Keep your prices high enough to cover your cost of fuel (nobody stops in if you are higher than the station next to you), or sell at a loss.
We had a good store and bait and tackle, and an attached repair shop, and that is where the money was made.
The retail side of the fuel business is one of the worst business models out there.
I love how people always blame gas stations for high prices, and think they are making so much money on it. And when you are priced a penny higher than your competitor, we actually had people stop in just to ***** at us for being too high, and then go to the other station, or drive 5 miles out of their way to save 10 cents. It's an odd mentality.

That may be the business model for a mom and pop store. Big chains pay for the gas as it gets pumped into the car. They get their "few cents" no matter what. You probably haven't seen how QT, or Racetrack runs their businesses. It's a work of art. Cheap drinks, fresh food, cheaper than other gas stations on gas, clean, nice people,....etc. They are making a killing!!

Donald

 

[newbeetleman]

Wrong. Owned a station for years. Mark up is 2-5 cents per gallon, regardless of per gallon price. It's not a percentage like most retail. Lower prices do increase the mark up, because it works out to a higher percentage, but you make pretty much zilch on fuel. When prices drop, you can lose your ass (your stock cost more than going rate), and when they go up, you can make a little (your stock is lower priced than going rate), but it all balances out. With 90% of people using CC's to pay for their fuel, it eats up most of the 5 cent mark up (avg) on fuel. Add a drive off or two per fuel load, and you've lost your "profit". When you see prices drop for extended periods, like we have lately, and like in 2008, you see a lot of little stores closing. They don't sell the volume that the big guys do, so their pricing is out of date because of slower turn over. The dilemma: Keep your prices high enough to cover your cost of fuel (nobody stops in if you are higher than the station next to you), or sell at a loss.
We had a good store and bait and tackle, and an attached repair shop, and that is where the money was made.
The retail side of the fuel business is one of the worst business models out there.
I love how people always blame gas stations for high prices, and think they are making so much money on it. And when you are priced a penny higher than your competitor, we actually had people stop in just to ***** at us for being too high, and then go to the other station, or drive 5 miles out of their way to save 10 cents. It's an odd mentality.

So you say he is wrong but then say he is right? The poster said they make a few cents on every gallon.. You said the make 2-5 cents on every gallon, other things make that even out, but they still made 2-5 cents per gallon.

I also run a store, of course this was back when all stores tried to be the lowest price (mid to late 80's when fuel was .50 cents a gallon), because we knew the lower the price the more traffic you get, the more extras you can sell.

 

[Gonehuckin]

VW reporting 5.5 billion loss with special expenses related to diesel. They had pre scandal net profit of 15.2 billion- so the diesel buyback program and fines will exceed 20 billion.

Source? So this whole thing will only eat 1.3 times annual profit from VW. That's not nearly enough from a punitive side......

 

[salsatdi]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/04/22/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-cost/83379520/

 

[Torque17]

I suppose, I can keep the loan if I agree to buyback, right?

If I have to buy a used car, I 'd rather have a low interest loan (currently from vw finance) instead of borrowing a new loan which is likely to be at a higher rate (since used car).

Thoughts?

 

[740GLE]

Do you have it serviced there? If so, they already have your mileage.

When mine were activated, it was the first time actually being at the dealership, I had a meeting 2 min down the road and it was convenient for me.

The manager of the shop did the activation and never left the desk, looked at my registration and the cards, I ran out to verify the odometer. He actually never even saw the jetta as it was around the corner out of his view,

 

[apac020]

I suppose, I can keep the loan if I agree to buyback, right?

If I have to buy a used car, I 'd rather have a low interest loan (currently from vw finance) instead of borrowing a new loan which is likely to be at a higher rate (since used car).

Thoughts?

Almost certainly not. Your bank uses the car for loan collateral. No more collateral = no loan. Just as if you totaled it and took an insurance payout.

Edit: I see, you wanted to transfer the loan. Still unlikely IMO, since I imagine banks don't really have the capability to do that. Interesting thought, though. I think the insurance payout analogy still applies, I don't think most (any?) banks transfer loans when you wreck one car and buy another.

 

[Torque17]

With High Losses...Even Poorer Quality

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/04/22/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-cost/83379520/

Since vw has/is suffering huge losses, how can it plan to maintain or better the quality? We know morals/ethics/right-thing-to-do don't exist in vw-verse.

Simple logic dictates, vw's quality is only gonna get worse. Cutting corners (half engineering) wasn't new at vw and with this debacle at hand, I bet they are scrambling to find ways (cheat) to overcome losses, especially at the cost of existing/new/future owners.

 

[TCBinaflash]

Source? So this whole thing will only eat 1.3 times annual profit from VW. That's not nearly enough from a punitive side......

Handelsblatt is reporting- saw on Twitter. Can't link now tho

 

[Gonehuckin]

Simple logic dictates, vw's quality is only gonna get worse. Cutting corners (half engineering) wasn't new at vw and with this debacle at hand, I bet they are scrambling to find ways (cheat) to overcome losses, especially at the cost of existing/new/future owners.

That's the problem with "simple logic", it's often wrong. They have now charged this entire scandal to one year of financials. This means basically a clean slate. They have nothing to over come or work back from. The stock price already reflects this change and their operating profit was still significant so the market cap will return fairly quickly.

 

[LogicBomb]

That's the problem with "simple logic", it's often wrong. They have now charged this entire scandal to one year of financials. This means basically a clean slate. They have nothing to over come or work back from. The stock price already reflects this change and their operating profit was still significant so the market cap will return fairly quickly.

I can't imagine VW "suffering" for more than 2 years. So I'm not too sure they'll tank quality, to offset what is a short loss. They still made billions off of the cars, worldwide, they can afford the 11 digit loss quite easily.

 

[pkhoury]

I have the court transcript for 4-21-2016

More ot less that is exactly what the Judge did say ... Owners of affected cars will be given time to make up their mind.

I have the court transcript

The affected owners will be given time

..... did not see any thing about a limit on time ... all to be decided in the days coming up

To me ... the Judge is going out of his way to protect the owners.

Morning bubba

The script is very short .. fast read .. damn few words .. humorous .. I personally feel relived about fairness for owners ... see light at the end of the tunnel for VW

My take on this hearing is that VW wants and will go forward in US

 

[14PassatTDISE]

I hope VW would pay for maintenance if I have to wait for 2 years

 

[S2000_guy]

There are more than a few posts here which detail various ways in which dealer staff fails to follow procedures.

people take shortcuts. not all, but some....

And people who generally don't take shortcuts will sometimes do so when they're swamped with other work. It happens.

 

[corbinmharris]

I hope VW would pay for maintenance if I have to wait for 2 years

Yes, that is my thought exactly. There's nothing on the market right now that comes close to offering the combo of space, MPG and power as my 2014 JSW TDI. Maybe in a couple of years....

Corbin

 

[LogicBomb]

I hope VW would pay for maintenance if I have to wait for 2 years

I highly doubt it. If you're going to wait the 2 years for an eventual "fix", I'm sure they'll expect you to use some of that compensation fund money to properly maintain the vehicle.

 

[geodug]

Why is all the discussion about what to buy next not involving TDIs? Lots of chatter about Mazdas, Hondas etc. Diesel lovers talking about dealing up to BMW and Mercedes diesels. There is even talk about closing diesel stations around the country because of VW.

Volkswagen can and probably will be back in the diesel game. If not with their own technology they will licence from Mercedes or BMW. As the TV show Get Smart used to say, VW only missed being legal by "thismuch". They will have learned their lesson to be sure.

I am setting my sights on a Model Year 2017 Tiguan Long Wheelbase WITH a TDI.

 

[pkhoury]

That is a myth. They make a few cents on every gallon sold. It goes up when people buy the higher octanes. This includes all operating costs. It's true, they make good money on the junk, but the national average of profit on gas is bottom line profit. If they make money on their retail, then they are guaranteed to be making money.

Also depends on the station. Some stations' fuel is a loss leader, just to get lots of foot traffic inside the business (be it a supermarket, Walmart, or a mega fuel station like Buc-ee's here in TX).

There was one station I filled up from in the CA desert (Hesperia) when I lived out there - the owner told me he operated the fuel as a loss leader (not losing money, but not making ANYTHING on fuel), and made up for it with alcohol, tobacco and soda/food sales (and his fuel was ALWAYS cheaper than every station within a 20 mile radius).

 

[Torque17]

No more free service!

I hope VW would pay for maintenance if I have to wait for 2 years

I heard that on the new cars (2016), they no longer offer 3 year free service.