Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[MichVW]

You have just won the "smartest post of the day" award. Please stop by the office at the end of the day to claim your prize.

LOL.. thank you sir... just trying to be helpful.

 

[LogicBomb]

PKhoury... Did the mods merge your "what car would you buy?" thread with this one? All this talk of staying on topic and we are not allowed to have a separate thread in the "general discussion forum" about cars we would consider.. Man.. tough crowd..

Well it certainly isn't "TDI emission" related, I guess? Probably should have posted it in the general discussion.

 

[lalyde]

I can't even begin to speculate because I don't understand what the fix will be. Since I have a scr system if there was just a software update for more adblue and a warranty to cover the extra regens then maybe. If they messed with engine cals so they could size the catalyst smaller and that would need to be replaced then no. Still so many unanswered questions. Oh well, until then I will not worry about and continue to drive my car as is.

 

[Idahoser]

Is it me, or does VW's math not work out on the announced settlement?

1 billion dollars divided by 480,000 affected cars is an average of $2,083.33 per owner. I'm guessing that VW is betting that most TDI owners are going to opt for the "fix", although the fix itself is unspecified.

My threshold on the fix is 10%. If any fix cuts the power or economy more than 10%, I think I'd take a buyout. It would be nice if TDI owners could test drive a sample vehicle with the fix and make the determination if they want to go through with it.

the purpose of all of this is of course nothing to do with what you want, but to satisfy the EPA. They will be required to fix or destroy all of these cars, you will have to (and I will) fight them to avoid it.

 

[MichVW]

Well it certainly isn't "TDI emission" related, I guess? Probably should have posted it in the general discussion.

He did... and it was deleted and merged.

 

[Scratchy101]

According to US News, the Gold has 22.8 cu ft...

Anyways, I purchased my Golf for commuting and road trips, so if I sold my car to VW my list would include:
<snip>

According to Car.com it is 15cu ft. in my 2012 TDI
http://www.cars.com/volkswagen/golf/2012/specifications/

Interior Cargo Volume 15.1 cu.ft.
Interior Cargo Volume w/Seats Folded 46.0 cu.ft.

In any case if the Tiggy was larger I would buy that.
http://www.cars.com/volkswagen/golf/2012/specifications/#ctaQlmPscpXBVtGZ.99

 

[JohnNS]

I have read both 1b and 10b in various articles.

I'm more inclined to believe 10b.

 

[LogicBomb]

There is no mention of dollar figures in regards to the compensation from the court proceedings. So worrying about it, and using FALSE numbers like 1,000,000,000 are just going to confuse some of you.

The ground work has been laid. The details, read FINANCIALS, are being worked out as we speak, we'll be updated May 19 on some of those details.

 

[Borsig]

I want a new gas wagon and the credits and cash. Hell with it. Im out. I dont want a 'fix' at this point. Make it rewarding and I'll stay and get a gas wagon. Don't, and Im gone to probably a ford.

 

[LogicBomb]

He did... and it was deleted and merged.

I only ever saw the thread in the TDI Emission branch. I must have caught it when they moved it to Emissions, so they could then merge it with Threadzilla?

 

[cqk56]

Sorry to disappoint you folks, but there's no Santa Claus and they'll be no mass buyout. There's about 10,000,000 affected cars and VW has about $100,000,000,000 more assets than liabilities. For the math impaired, that's about $10,000 per car... Nowhere near enough for a market price buyout, never mind paying off the regulatory agencies, etc.. So if $2 a gallon gas is giving you buyer's remorse and you're jonesin' for a new SUV, pay for it yourself like the rest of us instead of expecting a handout from VW!

Same person who said this.

 

[MichVW]

Same person who said this.

wow.. You probably had to dig through a bunch of ridiculous comments to find that one. I do remember it though. Good on ya.. My "ridiculousness meter" pegs every time I see one of her posts..

 

[gashead]

i bought the TDI for longevity. My wife is a major commuter.
I think I will do the buyback and use what I've been paying monthly to rent a car.
It will cost me the same monthly and I won't have to worry about maintenance, break downs, etc anymore. So now I'm just wondering how long before buy backs...

 

[Borsig]

Same person who said this.

mmmm crow. A little greasy, but that just helps it go down easier.

Swallow hard, now....

 

[ATR]

Wow! I haven't seen this thread move so fast in a while!

Still not sure which way I'll go. Really depends on the full details which looks like we'll get in the next 2-3 months.

 

[kjclow]

There is no mention of dollar figures in regards to the compensation from the court proceedings. So worrying about it, and using FALSE numbers like 1,000,000,000 are just going to confuse some of you.

The ground work has been laid. The details, read FINANCIALS, are being worked out as we speak, we'll be updated May 19 on some of those details.

We won't hear anything until June 21:
"The government and Volkswagen have until June 21 to complete a final “consent decree” that will face public comment and need judicial approval before taking effect. VW will commit additional funds to “promote other green automotive technologies,” Breyer said." (from Globe and Mail)

"Breyer said he was imposing a gag order on all the parties until a final agreement is reached." (from Reuters)

 

[NoFuiYo]

According to Car.com it is 15cu ft. in my 2012 TDI
http://www.cars.com/volkswagen/golf/2012/specifications/

Interior Cargo Volume 15.1 cu.ft.
Interior Cargo Volume w/Seats Folded 46.0 cu.ft.

In any case if the Tiggy was larger I would buy that.
http://www.cars.com/volkswagen/golf/2012/specifications/#ctaQlmPscpXBVtGZ.99

I apologize Scratchy101.. for some reason I thought you meant a new Golf (Mk VII).. you are correct about the 15.1 on the 2012.. sorry for the mix-up

 

[Gary Barnhill]

Deal not all that bad for VW?? $1 billion limit a VW coup??

I live in CA. Bought two new 2003 Jetta TDi. CA then banned diesels for five years. In 2008 I tired of waiting for the delayed JSW. I sold the two Jetta for almost full MSRP after five years use.

My point is: if VW/Audi do not return to the diesel market, or at least not the CA diesel market; a VW TDi may actually increase in value.

So, VW "buys back" your problem TDi. VW comes up with an acceptable emissions "fix". (They may get a partial EPA/CARB waiver on NOx.) VW dealers then sell the used and "fixed" TDi for either very little loss to VW or even a profit.

This scenario is highly dependent on what MPG is after the "fix".

I average 40 mpg on my AT 2013 Passat SE. Even a 20% reduction to 32 mpg average is better than most anything I could buy. The Camry mpg are 28-38. Factor in the delta of 46 cents price difference between diesel vs. Regular and the "fixed" TDi is still the winner.

The $5,000 rumor is going to break a lot of hearts. (The anatomy of an upset is an unfulfilled expectation.)

Quotes from two articles:

"They've agreed on a maximum amount of money, over $1 billion" for compensation, said the person. "How it's allocated and distributed, that remains to be seen." (Presumably this is where Ken Feinberg enters the game.)

"With $1 billion to spend, it works out to about $1,700 per car. But some owners of newer models who get just a software fix may receive little."

 

[rgoetz]

Hmmm wonder what will come from this.
Internet understatement of the century.

 

[mjLyco]

I also looked at the CX-5, but visibility was poor and passenger console armrest is missing. I hear they are a very responsive for spirited driving, at least for an SUV? I guess I need to do some test drives....

They revamped it for 2016 so maybe take a test drive. Visibility isn't great out the back but they give you blind spot monitoring in most or all models.

I love the car. Decent MPG for the size/weight/power and the fact that it has AWD friction losses to deal with. I got 30.1mpg on the way to work today but 'only' 24mpg racing it around doing errands with sport mode on the other day. My best friend's 2016 Golf gasser averages the same as I do per tank. 25-27mpg (we have lead foots) The cars are about the same to 60 but I can haul more and have AWD. His Golf handles better and has a cloth lined glove box.

 

[kjclow]

The $5000 rumor and prescandel values will still make it hard for me to replace both cars. Just spitballing here because I have no idea waht the value was of either of my cars in August 15, but let's assume $15,000 for the Golf and $10,000 for the JSW. Add in the $10,000 rumored money and I've got $35,000 to replace both cars. I guess my wife gets a new car and I get to use the 07 Canyon os my dd.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Market Value + $5k... Is not a mass buyout!

Same person who said this.

And that's the terms for the U.S., other market's won't see such generosity from VW. Then consider that the "goodwill offer" is about to expire, and half the eligible owners haven't even claimed that free money. Then subtract from the potential 400k 2.0 liter cars the ones that have been totaled and the dummies that panicked and sold their's already, and the previous not even 50% compliance rate... We're talking about less than 200K cars claiming VW's $5k= Only a billion dollars. Add in less than a billion for SCR retrofits on the group one cars, and VW's still got plenty of liquidity left.

No MSRP, no treble damages, and some of ya are dumb enough to park these cars instead of drive them for zero depreciation...

 

[durundal]

And that's the terms for the U.S., other market's won't see such generosity from VW. Then consider that the "goodwill offer" is about to expire, and half the eligible owners haven't even claimed that free money. Then subtract from the potential 400k 2.0 liter cars the ones that have been totaled and the dummies that panicked and sold their's already, and the previous not even 50% compliance rate... We're talking about less than 200K cars claiming VW's $5k= Only a billion dollars. Add in less than a billion for SCR retrofits on the group one cars, and VW's still got plenty of liquidity left.

No MSRP, no treble damages, and some of ya are dumb enough to park these cars instead of drive them for zero depreciation...

Those straws are pretty slippery, huh?

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

VW may end up owning and controlling the TDI market...

If even half the last decade's TDIs are bought back, VW could just trickle them back onto the market and thus prop the price up. It's the same trick the big banks did with their huge inventory of foreclosed homes during and after the recession.

I live in CA. Bought two new 2003 Jetta TDi. CA then banned diesels for five years. In 2008 I tired of waiting for the delayed JSW. I sold the two Jetta for almost full MSRP after five years use.

My point is: if VW/Audi do not return to the diesel market, or at least not the CA diesel market; a VW TDi may actually increase in value.

So, VW "buys back" your problem TDi. VW comes up with an acceptable emissions "fix". (They may get a partial EPA/CARB waiver on NOx.) VW dealers then sell the used and "fixed" TDi for either very little loss to VW or even a profit.

This scenario is highly dependent on what MPG is after the "fix".

I average 40 mpg on my AT 2013 Passat SE. Even a 20% reduction to 32 mpg average is better than most anything I could buy. The Camry mpg are 28-38. Factor in the delta of 46 cents price difference between diesel vs. Regular and the "fixed" TDi is still the winner.

The $5,000 rumor is going to break a lot of hearts. (The anatomy of an upset is an unfulfilled expectation.)

Quotes from two articles:

"They've agreed on a maximum amount of money, over $1 billion" for compensation, said the person. "How it's allocated and distributed, that remains to be seen." (Presumably this is where Ken Feinberg enters the game.)

"With $1 billion to spend, it works out to about $1,700 per car. But some owners of newer models who get just a software fix may receive little."

 

[MichVW]

And that's the terms for the U.S., other market's won't see such generosity from VW. Then consider that the "goodwill offer" is about to expire, and half the eligible owners haven't even claimed that free money. Then subtract from the potential 400k 2.0 liter cars the ones that have been totaled and the dummies that panicked and sold their's already, and the previous not even 50% compliance rate... We're talking about less than 200K cars claiming VW's $5k= Only a billion dollars. Add in less than a billion for SCR retrofits on the group one cars, and VW's still got plenty of liquidity left.

No MSRP, no treble damages, and some of ya are dumb enough to park these cars instead of drive them for zero depreciation...

Sounds like someone's feelings are hurt!! The only dummies here are the ones that keep making ridiculous comments and spouting off numbers that cannot be backed by FACTS. You have no source for ANY of your claims or senseless banter. Give it up.

Kit.. didn't you say previously you were compiling a chart of her ridiculous posts? I think it was you.. Please add this one to the top.

 

[Mark SF]

I live in CA. Bought two new 2003 Jetta TDi. CA then banned diesels for five years. In 2008 I tired of waiting for the delayed JSW. I sold the two Jetta for almost full MSRP after five years use.

My point is: if VW/Audi do not return to the diesel market, or at least not the CA diesel market; a VW TDi may actually increase in value.

So, VW "buys back" your problem TDi. VW comes up with an acceptable emissions "fix". (They may get a partial EPA/CARB waiver on NOx.) VW dealers then sell the used and "fixed" TDi for either very little loss to VW or even a profit.

This scenario is highly dependent on what MPG is after the "fix".

I average 40 mpg on my AT 2013 Passat SE. Even a 20% reduction to 32 mpg average is better than most anything I could buy. The Camry mpg are 28-38. Factor in the delta of 46 cents price difference between diesel vs. Regular and the "fixed" TDi is still the winner.

The $5,000 rumor is going to break a lot of hearts. (The anatomy of an upset is an unfulfilled expectation.)

Quotes from two articles:

"They've agreed on a maximum amount of money, over $1 billion" for compensation, said the person. "How it's allocated and distributed, that remains to be seen." (Presumably this is where Ken Feinberg enters the game.)

"With $1 billion to spend, it works out to about $1,700 per car. But some owners of newer models who get just a software fix may receive little."

Diesel is in a period where it is cheaper that gasoline. It is not so long since it was much more expensive than gasoline. It would be unwise to assume the current price differential, in your plans.

 

[autdi]

The $5000 rumor and prescandel values will still make it hard for me to replace both cars. Just spitballing here because I have no idea waht the value was of either of my cars in August 15, but let's assume $15,000 for the Golf and $10,000 for the JSW. Add in the $10,000 rumored money and I've got $35,000 to replace both cars. I guess my wife gets a new car and I get to use the 07 Canyon os my dd.

Actually both are KBB ballpark 13.5k, so an extra 2k, but yeah, I'm similarly not thrilled with finding something to replace a late 2014, even with the 5k, I'm still taking a bath on the car if I sell it back.

 

[peterdaniel]

I wonder what this does to the resale value of my '03 wagon.... not that it matters since it wont be for sale...

Those of you that have a wagon and a 5 speed would be wise to think very carefully what you are giving up if you sell back....

 

[ludbg]

my passat has been parked for 3 weeks due to large water pump leak at 70k miles. I was waiting for something more concrete but.... I guess i gotta pay to get it fix and might as well do a TB because i cant wait till july 21st....

 

[LogicBomb]

Sounds like someone's feelings are hurt!! The only dummies here are the ones that keep making ridiculous comments and spouting off numbers that cannot be backed by FACTS. You have no source for ANY of your claims or senseless banter. Give it up.
Kit.. didn't you say previously you were compiling a chart of her ridiculous posts? I think it was you.. Please add this one to the top.

I, personally, liked the shifting of the goal posts.

"There will be no buybacks"

"Well I mean the rest of the world"

Like I said, a drunk uncle at a family get together.