Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[kitarkus]

Such as gas prices immediately rise when there is a change in barrel prices but don't drop as fast when barrels drop, I wouldn't expect insurance values to start rising that quick...now market price might go up with demand of people looking for used TDIs... I think uber low mileage owners might be more inclined to take this avenue.
I think there will be much more information coming out today and it won't be as simple as either sell back or fix plus the $5K. I think it will be staggered by years and generations with new cars that can be fixed and older cars that cannot.

I feel sorry for these gas stations that just invested in MAJOR retrofits to accommodate the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel pumps. Some of the small mom and pop stations went out of business to avoid the upgrades...while the big stations spent millions on new pumps, tanks etc. Their diesel sales will be cut sharply aside from the landscaper's trucks in my suburban area.

 

[KraftwerkB6]

wont let me see the 2023 or 2024 pages, but oh well.

reading that updated Reuters report seem like the best option for me imo, sell the car back at the price of what it was worth before the TDI issues broke out, and get a $5k on top of that.. If im reading that right.
So trade in the wagon, get money and then extra $5k also, put towards a new/used vw.

My main concern is what will they do to the "tuned" cars with dpf/egr deletes, will they take my car back AS-IS with all the **** gone and a trunk full of DPF parts? lol. Or do i need to swap all my stuff back over, and pretend its stock? Better, swap all the stock stuff over, but leave the ecu tuned in there so i dont have to deal with all the lights coming on and stuff plugged back in.. How wold they know if the cars tuned or not? or up untill they attempt to fix it on their end, see that its been tuned, and then come back to me with a letter saying they need their money back because my cars been tuned and its not stock??

They would have to assume that at some point, people got tired of this TDI emissions issue and took matters into their own hands and got the cars " fixed" on their own. idk.


my current situation of just having a kid ( 6 months old), wife, and 2 large dogs, the wagon has gotten a little tight. Ive already put my foot down and i am not putting any more money into it per mods go(stage 3 kit) as much as id like to, just not worth it right now unless i really wanted to keep the wagon. I/we need something bigger-ish and really automatic/dsg. ive been keeping a close eye on the new Tiguan or the new Alltrack wagon( i know its the same) but having 4-motion, DSG, and a gas engine has been really looking good. - flame suit on-

 

[14PassatTDISE]

wow, if the 2 year buyback guarantee is true, I could drive my Passat for free, then get my Tesla Model 3 by then.

 

[Evildad]

wont let me see the 2023 or 2024 pages, but oh well.

I noticed that yesterday, the server would tell me there were two more pages to read, but I couldn't access them. But if I posted like this, it dropped the reply on the page I was already reading. Is the server creating a couple of pages of placeholders for Threadzilla?

 

[velostuf]

<snip>
Alas...this is not the time nor the place for VW to be providing incentives to entice us to stay with the VW brand. This is a court hearing and a compensation plan...not a sales pitch. After the proposal is made and accepted...and after Mr. Feinberg arrives at his offer criteria and presents to the impacted TDI owners....I fully expect that the VW dealers will be falling all over themselves to keep us 'in the fold' and in any way that they can. Additionally, I expect other manufacturers to pile on with incentive offers to sway us in their direction. Patience is your friend.

I am counting on the fact that VW will generously assist the dealers in trying to keep us in the family. --> The dealers are an aggrieved party to this mess. My *guess* is that dealers will get reimbursed by VW for up to $4,000 for each new VW sold. If dealers pass that on to us as an incentive (plus the $500 dealer loyalty card) then I'll be looking at a new VW.

I'm going to the dealer today with tape measure to see how much cargo room length I'll give up if I move from a JSW to a Golf R (I want 4-Motion). The GSW is less interesting to me cuz it has a slush box rather than DSG.

 

[nextelmatt]

I am counting on the fact that VW will generously assist the dealers in trying to keep us in the family. --> The dealers are an aggrieved party to this mess. My *guess* is that dealers will get reimbursed by VW for up to $4,000 for each new VW sold. If dealers pass that on to us as an incentive (plus the $500 dealer loyalty card) then I'll be looking at a new VW.
I'm going to the dealer today with tape measure to see how much cargo room length I'll give up if I move from a JSW to a Golf R (I want 4-Motion). The GSW is less interesting to me cuz it has a slush box rather than DSG.

I also have a MK7 GTI. The JSW has a ton more storage, but if you can manage, that would be a hot ride.

 

[iadubber]

I noticed that yesterday, the server would tell me there were two more pages to read, but I couldn't access them. But if I posted like this, it dropped the reply on the page I was already reading. Is the server creating a couple of pages of placeholders for Threadzilla?

It's been like this for quite awhile on this thread. It also does it if you open the thread in Tapatalk.

 

[jhawklver]

Good morning sunshine!...did you sleep well? It is always wonderful to hear you spread your Gearheadgrrrl cheer around the interwebz. You are always so upbeat! I don't know what I'd do without you! XXOO

What's funny about this is she's obviously referring to my post, you know, the one in which I specified I'd never been in an accident.

That said, I'm also smart enough to know both good and bad drivers get in accidents. Some of which aren't their fault and couldn't be avoided. She on the other hand... not capable of critical thought based on what I've seen in this thread.

Only insurance claim I've ever put in on a car was a hit and run on my parked car 10+ years ago.

 

[Evildad]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/business/volkswagen-emissions.html

A deal, if completed, is expected to include fines from regulators and compensation to owners that could collectively cost Volkswagen billions of dollars. The three people spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing the continuing legal matter.
Even at a high price, a settlement would be a major relief to the car company. The uncertainty over the financial impact of the deception has delayed its earnings reports and impaired its ability to raise money on the markets...
On the regulatory side, Volkswagen faces a theoretical maximum penalty of $18 billion in the United States. While lawyers in the case predict the actual fine imposed on Volkswagen to be much less, it would still set a record for an automaker accused of clean-air violations...Any settlement would also include provisions to fix nearly 600,000 cars in the United States that are still on the road, seven months after Volkswagen admitted cheating on emissions tests. Additionally, it will most likely include financial incentives to ensure that owners bring the cars back to dealers to be repaired.
In some cases, Volkswagen will not be able to fix the cars and will have to buy them back from owners. Kelley Blue Book, a research firm, estimated the cost of buying back the cars in the United States at $7 billion.
Judge Breyer is overseeing all of the litigation in the United States, including claims filed by federal and state governments as well as Volkswagen owners. Separate suits by Volkswagen dealers and by dealers of competing brands, who say the cheating gave Volkswagen an unfair advantage in the market, would probably not be part of the initial settlement.
Of 11 million Volkswagen vehicles with illegal software, an overwhelming majority are in Europe. But Volkswagen’s legal troubles are focused in the United States, where limits on nitrogen oxides are more stringent and the penalties more severe.
In addition, United States law gives owners significant scope to seek redress in court. The American owners are seeking compensation for the declines in the resale value of their cars. The models with the cheating software include Volkswagen, as well as Audi and Porsche cars with 2-liter or 3-liter diesel engines from the model years 2008 to 2015.

I didn't know about the dealer and competitor lawsuits. Jeez!

 

[GoFaster]

My main concern is what will they do to the "tuned" cars with dpf/egr deletes, will they take my car back AS-IS with all the **** gone and a trunk full of DPF parts? lol. Or do i need to swap all my stuff back over, and pretend its stock? Better, swap all the stock stuff over, but leave the ecu tuned in there so i dont have to deal with all the lights coming on and stuff plugged back in.. How wold they know if the cars tuned or not? or up untill they attempt to fix it on their end, see that its been tuned, and then come back to me with a letter saying they need their money back because my cars been tuned and its not stock??

No one knows what will happen to emissions-deleted cars. I suspect that if there is an eventual approved "fix", VW is only going to cover the portion of the cost associated with their part of the repairs, and if you want to return the car to being fully emissions compliant, you will have to pay for any necessary parts and labour to get the car to being otherwise stock. If you opt for a buyback, it likely won't matter. Of course, if the eventual approved "fix" is an entirely new exhaust system (which is possible) it might not even matter if you want to go that route.

A related question is what happens when someone wants a "fix" (if one ever gets approved) to a car that is stock but has a clogged/cracked DPF ... If they refuse to fix those (or want the user to pay for the repairs) it tilts the balance for any involved owners towards "buyback".

 

[Philpug]

wow, if the 2 year buyback guarantee is true, I could drive my Passat for free, then get my Tesla Model 3 by then.

It could be that there is $1B set aside for this deal, first come first serve. The longer that you wait, you might risk getting the money.

I do see this as being a kind of a "Cash for Clunker" situation where, while a good program in theory, it removed a lot of quality used cars from the market. Buybacks will remove a good percentage of TDI's from the market.

 

[TCBinaflash]

wow, if the 2 year buyback guarantee is true, I could drive my Passat for free, then get my Tesla Model 3 by then.

The 2 year deal to decide might be true. There are still folks turning in Their 1998 Tacomas for the buyback.

$5k upfront and 2 years? I'll take that and be pretty happy.

 

[kitarkus]

I am counting on the fact that VW will generously assist the dealers in trying to keep us in the family. --> The dealers are an aggrieved party to this mess. My *guess* is that dealers will get reimbursed by VW for up to $4,000 for each new VW sold. If dealers pass that on to us as an incentive (plus the $500 dealer loyalty card) then I'll be looking at a new VW.
I'm going to the dealer today with tape measure to see how much cargo room length I'll give up if I move from a JSW to a Golf R (I want 4-Motion). The GSW is less interesting to me cuz it has a slush box rather than DSG.

Ha....I need to get rid of the car prior to my 36K first DSG service....and I need new tires badly (they certainly could not make it to the winter). Given what we (think we) know now....I wouldn't keep the car for "2 years" due to (1) risk of catastrophic loss and FMV compensation from insurance - regardless of Gearheadgrrrl's prediction (2) DSG service needed SOON (3) tires needed SOON (4) and due to the small but real risk of an expensive failure. I am still under the manufacturers warranty for the next few months (currently at 31K miles) and hope to rid myself of the car at/near 36K.

Ken Fienberg and I will discuss my car over a long candle lit dinner this evening.

 

[dmarsingill]

Thats kind of my issue now. My wife is pregnant with our first child and drives a 07 mustang so I will try and get her into something. Hopefully we can get a SUV out of this for her and me something else to drive.

Mustangs are decent with kids....I would keep it.


Donald

 

[jhawklver]

.... will be hell to pay with the owners of "clean" cars ... if the poopy cars are treated equal.

... poopy cars equal hail, several owners, crashed, paint issues, filthy interiors, dents, bald tires, leaky motors, little or no maintenance, ripped seats, leaking moon roof, pet urine

...

Don't get this attitude. Why do you care at all what other's get IF you are given a deal you consider acceptable? It isn't like your auto condition is downgraded.

And no, my car is not "poopy" condition. It is low mile, one owner, all maintained, no history of bad issues, etc. And honestly, you think they should consider tire wear?

 

[iadubber]

I'm one hoping for a buy back that's not far down the road. I have a 10 JSW that's been deleted and tuned with Malone Stg 2. It's been one thing after another with this car since I've owned it. I now believe my head gasket is going or the head is cracked as I'm losing about a reservoir full of coolant every 3 - 4weeks and I've started hearing a clunk in reverse in the front end. I'd rather just give the car back.

 

[LNXGUY]

I'm one hoping for a buy back that's not far down the road. I have a 10 JSW that's been deleted and tuned with Malone Stg 2. It's been one thing after another with this car since I've owned it. I now believe my head gasket is going or the head is cracked as I'm losing about a reservoir full of coolant every 3 - 4weeks and I've started hearing a clunk in reverse in the front end. I'd rather just give the car back.

So you modded the car, broke something and that's VW's fault?

 

[Philpug]

The judge still needs to approve this. Also, where is Ken Feinberg in all this?

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

LINK said we have 2 years to decide on buy back (OR) fix

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...gen-group-emissions-scandal-hearing/83284748/


LINK said we have 2 years to decide on buy back (OR) fix

... But in truth there is no way they could BUY 'em or FIX 'em in a very short time period.

.... question is --- do we get to drive 'em with out dropping the buy back price

 

[POBOX2897]

.... will be hell to pay with the owners of "clean" cars ... if the poopy cars are treated equal.

... poopy cars equal hail, several owners, crashed, paint issues, filthy interiors, dents, bald tires, leaky motors, little or no maintenance, ripped seats, leaking moon roof, pet urine

I hear ya, but not for nothing, unless VW has also invented a time machine to see what our cars looked like in September, I believe that they're going to have to assume that all TDIs were "excellent" at the time the news broke.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I'm one hoping for a buy back that's not far down the road. I have a 10 JSW that's been deleted and tuned with Malone Stg 2. It's been one thing after another with this car since I've owned it. I now believe my head gasket is going or the head is cracked as I'm losing about a reservoir full of coolant every 3 - 4weeks and I've started hearing a clunk in reverse in the front end. I'd rather just give the car back.

... your cars are yours to fix 'em ... as you need to do. IMHO you own a poopy car

 

[kitarkus]

The judge still needs to approve this. Also, where is Ken Feinberg in all this?

He is doing his job!....awaiting VW's parameters so that he can formulate the compensation/offer package(s).....exactly as was originally intended. Ken Feinberg is just now getting ready to begin his work.

At most you can be hopeful that Mr. Feinberg was informed of the 'deal' specifics shortly in advance of us and has only briefly begun creating the compensation packages. At least you can expect that Mr. Feinberg is now able to start the work of creating the compensation packages after today's hearing.

 

[M. Tummi]

$5,000 sounds nice until you have to pay Federal, State, local, FICA, and Medicare tax on it, at with time you've got $2,700 left...

Then the gov't fines VW and guess who really "wins" in this deal, and who really loses?

The gov't and the lawyers are salivating, the rest of us just driving a car that while nice, isn't worth much.

I believe that tax would only be assessed if the $5000 were income to you (a gain). This would seem more like a compensation for something lost, not over and above what was paid for the car. If you were to purchase something at a store for $50 which turned out to be defective in some way and you went back to the store and they offered you a $25 check instead of a return, you wouldn't be paying income tax on that $25.

 

[jhawklver]

He is doing his job!....awaiting VW's parameters so that he can formulate the compensation/offer package(s).....exactly as was originally intended. Ken Feinberg is just now getting ready to begin his work.

At most you can be hopeful that Mr. Feinberg was informed of the 'deal' specifics and has only briefly begun creating the compensation packages. At least you can expect that Mr. Feinberg is now able to start the work of creating the compensation packages.

He's been working this entire time. My guess is the offer being discussed this morning is one of many options his team worked up.

 

[TCBinaflash]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...gen-group-emissions-scandal-hearing/83284748/


LINK said we have 2 years to decide on buy back (OR) fix

... But in truth there is no way they could BUY 'em or FIX 'em in a very short time period.

.... question is --- do we get to drive 'em with out dropping the buy back price

The 1 billion being cited may be just for NOX credits to the EPA while the cars are still on the road....

 

[tobianogreg]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...gen-group-emissions-scandal-hearing/83284748/


LINK said we have 2 years to decide on buy back (OR) fix

... But in truth there is no way they could BUY 'em or FIX 'em in a very short time period.

.... question is --- do we get to drive 'em with out dropping the buy back price

One thing tho, the fund is capped no? What happens if the max is reached?

 

[kitarkus]

I hear ya, but not for nothing, unless VW has also invented a time machine to see what our cars looked like in September, I believe that they're going to have to assume that all TDIs were "excellent" at the time the news broke.

I think it is logical to assume that the CARB/EPA settlement agreement provides incentive for VW to get our cars off the road. If VW is unable to sway us to sell back our vehicles...it is not unlikely that VW will be paying VW/CARB a penalty for their inability to re-acquire our cars. I doubt that we will ever know the specifics of this arrangement as it is not in VW's best interests for us to know the specifics.

Without such an incentive, CARB/EPA would never agree to such an arrangement IMO.

I am not worried that VW will nickel and dime us on a buy back. I don't expect to get extra money from VW or a windfall. I am certain that VW will be buying my car back at an amount that I will consider to be equitable. Your mileage and needs may vary.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I hear ya, but not for nothing, unless VW has also invented a time machine to see what our cars looked like in September, I believe that they're going to have to assume that all TDIs were "excellent" at the time the news broke.

.... hmmmm

.... can't go back in time.

.... but a CLEAN car then ... might-could-should be better today than a poopy car.

... Owners tend to continue there clean (or filthy) habits

... matters not if it is a 1-3-5-7 year old car

the filth starts at the beginning

... i. e.

Garage 'em
Maintain 'em
Pets or no pets
etc.

 

[Zmanzz]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...gen-group-emissions-scandal-hearing/83284748/


LINK said we have 2 years to decide on buy back (OR) fix

... But in truth there is no way they could BUY 'em or FIX 'em in a very short time period.

.... question is --- do we get to drive 'em with out dropping the buy back price

i did not read the 2 yr part in that link. Its not there.

 

[kitarkus]

He's been working this entire time. My guess is the offer being discussed this morning is one of many options his team worked up.

Not publicly "working"....but yes he has privately been working. Now he will be able to fine tune the compensation package and make it public...as was originally VW's plan. Robert Mueller is the one who has really been working on the agreement...Feinberg has been awaiting the conclusion of the agreement so that he can formulate the compensation package for the consumers. Feinberg's job is not to negotiate...his job is to put the compensation plan into action after it has been agreed upon by the stakeholders....nothing more.