Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[oldhifi]

Was just going to post this article and say the same.
It's buyback time.

I hope your right..got my eye on a Ford Diesel 7.3

 

[chilehead19]

VW needs to take original owners into consideration as well. We paid a premium for our TDIs compared to comparable gas models with the (false) belief that they were less polluting and more environmentally friendly. Even though we no longer own the vehicles we should be compensated at least to the level of that premium. I'm sure there are several lawyers who would agree. Are you listening VW?

If you already sold it too bad. You already cut your losses and you are out. Enjoy your civic.

 

[Philpug]

OK..how is FMV going to be agreed upon? Is condition, mileage, service going to be taken into consideration? What about regions and market place? Are they going to use the value as of 9/15? What source for value. NADA, KBB, Blackbook..wholesale, private party or retail? I think a simple percentage from the original MSRP, based upon model year will be the easiest and an clearest, irregardless of the variables I just mentioned, this percentage can be gotten from most leasing guides. This plus the $5K, I know I will be happy aslo for the simple fact, I don't think they can fix the 09-10's.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

The insurance company has no obligation to settle with you (in the event of a total loss) for anything other than "current" FMV at the time of loss. UNLESS, you are in a state that allows diminished value. If your state allows diminished value, then you can start that argument with your insurance company and see where it gets you. My thought, not very far...

Unless your insurance company had a hand in the diminished value of your vehicle (IE..It sat in a tow yard for months and lost value while your claim was being processed - This happens in areas that have experienced catastrophes... Houston Texas flooding) they will probably offer current FMV and tell you to "like it or leave it"...

Just my $0.02

It depends on the insurance company. Bottom line it should be based on the sale of like comparable vehicles in your region. In other words you should be able to go out and buy a comparable used car in theory for what they pay. However it may not include, tax, license, registration... if you have a FMV you don't like you can challenge it. Most insurance has ways of doing that. Keeping good pictures, records, list of accessories, will help as well...

If you have a loan you may owe more than they pay. That is the nature of depreciation of a new car and take a loan on. Remember you are obliged for replacement cost, not pay your loan off....

The good news some insurance companies offer gap insurance, to pay off loan, deductible, basically, so you are out your car but not in debt. In theory you can go buy a used car of similar value, finance it and be where you were. My insurance company offers Gap insurance and for a higher premium. They pay FMV + up to $5000 and your deductible.


I have USAA and have FMV + 10%. You pay a small premium. This helps with tax and registration fees.

I'm not disagreeing, but if you have a good high quality insurance you should be able to get back into a similar car for about the same money (or debt) you had before.

You may have to fight the insurance company to be sure. I just read a deal where a guy had an old Civic. It was damaged in an accident. The insurance company paid to fix it, let's say $4,000. Then two years later a deer jumps out from side of road at night, bounces off fender, hood and window. The cost to fix we will say $3500. They totaled the car and said they already paid $4,000 and owed him nothing!!! Now he was paying his comprehensive collision insurance all this time. The insurance said they should have totaled it the first time. Well should have would have could have.... He had it reported on the local TV News and he got a check for $4,500 for his tired Civic (a little more than it was worth).... Depending on state insurance totals cars at 75% of ACV (actual cash value). I am not aware of life time payout on a car. However if you keep wrecking your car they can drop you or jack your premium.... That does happen all the time. Also full comprehensive on an old car is not worth it. Just drag it off and part it out. What is old all depends on the premium and value of the car is. Insurance is like gambling, a game you pay out, lose but don't collect. However unlike gambling you hope you don't "win" a total car. Insurance is paying for something you hope you don't need......

 

[redbarron55]

What I understand it that the $5000 offer plus the pre disaster book value of the car.
I don't know if this is tempting to me for my low value, but well maintained 2009 with 250,000 miles.
The value of the car was (when the vultures offered their "book value" was maybe $3000 + that $5000 is $8000, but I might value the usefulness of the car to be to be more than that.
The question to me is how do I get a new to me car I have maintained since new for the payout?
Do I buy someone else's problems?
Of course the added worry of the airbags is also a question as well.
Takada (sp?) only has to replace 50 million or so units so why worry?
I think the $5000 is for customers who either give up their car for predieselgate price or have the fix whatever that might be.
I think that those who expect to get MSRP or price paid will be disappointed with this offer.

 

[jhawklver]

This Forbes article is saying current FMV plus $5000. I would think for certain people this would still leave them with a lesser valued car than they would have had without this scandal. I have a 2012 Jetta TDI and I think I'm down $3-4k so its not like this is a great deal for me either, considering I've had to deal with 7 mos of uncertainty as I've been wanting to buy a new car.

The reality is, we won't know for sure until it becomes official. I don't think we can trust news sources at this point EXCEPT that there is enough smoke there that we'll have some clarity very soon on at least the outlines of the plan.

Frankly, on the surface $5k plus buyback of FMV pre scandal sounds like a no brainer. Then you start doing the math and while I think it is still fair it certainly isn't a no brainer and requires thought. Depending on if you owe or have paid off a loan, depending on if you got extended warranty, depending on your mileage and how much you've spent to date on maintenance, etc.

When I truly run the numbers with the number I "think" pre scandal was (pretty educated guess but we'll see)... this will put me into a used car a few years newer than my 2012 with comparable mileage (mine is low mileage). The plus side is I can almost buy outright vs. what I still owe (a little over a year of payments still). The downside? I'm buying a car that I didn't own vs. one I know about how it was driven, etc. Or I can choose to buy new with a large down payment and add some to what I currently owe. Again, not horrible but not a no brainer especially since I have other things going on and don't really want get a new loan.

I think the two things that would put me over the top to sell would be the insurance concern and the maintainence cost concern (either with fix or with major things like many have experience). If I can guarantee the value VW is offering vs. what may happen if I wrecked the car... even though I've never been in a wreck myself? It would likely be smart to take it even though I'm not thrilled by having to get a used car, etc.

Lots of smoke though, I would say we'll know much more tomorrow and in the near future.

 

[aliasbane]

The reality is, we won't know for sure until it becomes official. I don't think we can trust news sources at this point EXCEPT that there is enough smoke there that we'll have some clarity very soon on at least the outlines of the plan.
Frankly, on the surface $5k plus buyback of FMV pre scandal sounds like a no brainer. Then you start doing the math and while I think it is still fair it certainly isn't a no brainer and requires thought. Depending on if you owe or have paid off a loan, depending on if you got extended warranty, depending on your mileage and how much you've spent to date on maintenance, etc.
When I truly run the numbers with the number I "think" pre scandal was (pretty educated guess but we'll see)... this will put me into a used car a few years newer than my 2012 with comparable mileage (mine is low mileage). The plus side is I can almost buy outright vs. what I still owe (a little over a year of payments still). The downside? I'm buying a car that I didn't own vs. one I know about how it was driven, etc. Or I can choose to buy new with a large down payment and add some to what I currently owe. Again, not horrible but not a no brainer especially since I have other things going on and don't really want get a new loan.
I think the two things that would put me over the top to sell would be the insurance concern and the maintainence cost concern (either with fix or with major things like many have experience). If I can guarantee the value VW is offering vs. what may happen if I wrecked the car... even though I've never been in a wreck myself? It would likely be smart to take it even though I'm not thrilled by having to get a used car, etc.
Lots of smoke though, I would say we'll know much more tomorrow and in the near future.

You sir put into words how I have been feeling and I have a 2013 Passat SEL

 

[jmeadows]

My wife and I are in a similar situation.

We own a 2009 Jetta TDI with close to 200k.

It has been a good car for us, but the DPF is failing. We would probably like to keep the car if any "fix" would also take care of that. When the dealership gave us the cost of repair, I nearly had a heart attack. The "offer" the dealership made for car was also pretty bad.

Again, I am not sure what the "fix" will be, but the Active Regeneration Indicator light still comes on sporadically. I would love it if the fix would also resolve that and we would keep the car until it stopped and threw us out.

 

[csl223]

Didn't everyone take a KBB or Edmunds photo of their partucular vehicle on September 23rd, 2015? I did: 2010 JSW without sunroof, with Nav, 68k in perfect condition - trade-in = $11,900; private party = $13,600

haha same: Here are my values from Sept 21:
2013 Beetle TDI base, manual, 16000 miles, excellent condition:
KBB Retail = $18305
NADA Clean retail = $19025
NADA Clean trade = $16450
Black book Extra clean retail = $20075
Black book clean trade in = $16310

(my car is about as pristine as they get, with an added spoiler, tint, mats, and the soundbox kit in the trunk, and an extended warranty... But for NADA values and Black book trade "Clean" is the highest grade I could give)

 

[jhawklver]

Another interesting variable

Something else that is interesting... if the news is correct and they go back to 2015 - they'll have to use mileage from around that time period, right? Those of us still under warranty at that time would have records from our last maintenance and/or the time we activated the cards. So do you drive the crap out of the car realizing every mile driven is value to you UNLESS you wreck it? Or get out as soon as you can?

I've got a long road trip planned in June and am contemplating driving vs. flying. Driving would turn it into a fun trip driving in areas I've always wanted to... so I'd probably drive it and turn in car after the trip BUT with my damn luck I'd wreck it pulling back into town and get paid what the insurance company considers FMV vs. what VW's 2015 FMV offer would be.

 

[Anonymous911]

Entitled to people who traded in their TDIs for gasser?

 

[Hsr1232]

I also read this. Really curious to see what they will do. 5K would be a great start to a 911 fund

 

[TCBinaflash]

What I understand it that the $5000 offer plus the pre disaster book value of the car.
I don't know if this is tempting to me for my low value, but well maintained 2009 with 250,000 miles.
The value of the car was (when the vultures offered their "book value" was maybe $3000 + that $5000 is $8000, but I might value the usefulness of the car to be to be more than that.
The question to me is how do I get a new to me car I have maintained since new for the payout?
Do I buy someone else's problems?
Of course the added worry of the airbags is also a question as well.
Takada (sp?) only has to replace 50 million or so units so why worry?
I think the $5000 is for customers who either give up their car for predieselgate price or have the fix whatever that might be.
I think that those who expect to get MSRP or price paid will be disappointed with this offer.

At some point if you plan on replacing your car you will never get more value out of than right now.

I'd say $8k for that car would be a pipe dream for owners in a similar situation.

 

[Scoutx]

Update on VW to re-buy 500,000 TDIs

"Volkswagen AG and U.S. officials have reached a framework deal under which the automaker would offer to buy back almost 500,000 diesel cars that used sophisticated software to evade U.S. emission rules, two people briefed on the matter said on Wednesday."

"The buyback offer does not apply to the bigger 3.0-liter diesel vehicles "

"Volkswagen may also offer to repair polluting diesel vehicles if U.S. regulators approve the fix as workable at a future date, the sources said. "

News Link

 

[Carphuntin_god]

Edmunds has a service in which they captured the "exact" TMV by date. Here was my appraisal for Aug. 30 2015 I got for the Dieselgate situation:
Thank you for contacting Edmunds.
Using the vehicle as submitted in your request, the 2014 Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen TDI 4dr Wagon w/Sunroof, Navigation (2.0L 4cyl Turbodiesel 6AM) holds the following Used TMV values as of August 30, 2015:
Retail Value: $25,343
Private Party Value: $23,878
Trade-in Value: $22,050
Let's see what happens tomorrow. Anyone that sticks with VW, the MK7 GTI is incredible.
Popcorn (and Beer and Pretzels as someone mentioned) on tap.

I just went to check this... they've taken the service offline

 

[Analogeezer]

Sounds like you would have to agree to "the fix" to get the $5,000, but I am not sure how they can actually enforce that...it's compensation for the owners, not a fine paid to the EPA.

My county does not do emissions testing so I would forgo the "fix" but that complicates resale down the line (the counties close to me do have emissions testing).

The $5k payment is no doubt VW's way of screwing the bloodsucking lawyers who keep sending me class action offers; people never make **** off class action lawsuits (just see the Porsche IMS debacle and that one was STARTED by lawyers who owned Porsches), you would be lucky to clear $1000 TEN years from now going that direction.

Sounds like we'll have plenty of time to evaluate if the fix is worth it or not (for those of us who do not need to get it done) and hey I am down with $5,000!

Someone mentioned a 911 fund, I have a nearly 12 year old sports car I want to replace eventually so yeah that would be a nice start to that fund.

I love my Mk VI TDI wagon (the compromises to the Mk VII have tempered my interest in getting one of those, especially making you get the sunroof to get heated seats) so I plan on keeping it a long, long time.

I'm still a bit surprised at how VW has been so thoroughly exorcised over this situation while Takata and GM seem to be getting a pass for ACTUALLY KILLING PEOPLE, not some theoretical "the extra pollution will kill xxx people in 20 years" but killing people for whom funerals are being held for.

It's really annoying too reading the bad reporting on this, "Spews 40 times the pollutants" seems to be the go to line, while ignoring the TDI's do better than gassers on two out of three regulated pollutants and do far better on particulates for gassers, as those are NOT regulated for gassers.

Throw in the less than 2% market penetration of diesel cars and it makes me just shake my head, it's really not even a 1st world problem.

Commercial diesel emissions are much more of a problem and every day going to work I see work trucks, landscaper trucks, etc. that are in a very bad state of tune putting out 1000X what a CR TDI puts out.

Analogeezer

 

[czeetah]

$5k to be spent at dealer.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Something else that is interesting... if the news is correct and they go back to 2015 - they'll have to use mileage from around that time period, right? Those of us still under warranty at that time would have records from our last maintenance and/or the time we activated the cards. So do you drive the crap out of the car realizing every mile driven is value to you UNLESS you wreck it? Or get out as soon as you can?
I've got a long road trip planned in June and am contemplating driving vs. flying. Driving would turn it into a fun trip driving in areas I've always wanted to... so I'd probably drive it and turn in car after the trip BUT with my damn luck I'd wreck it pulling back into town and get paid what the insurance company considers FMV vs. what VW's 2015 FMV offer would be.

That might explain why they wanted the mileage off the cars when people went in to get the "Goodwill" cards activated. I would be surprised if they nickel and dime people over mileage though. If they do...they're just going to tick off people with high mileage cars.

My $.02...if they're wanting to motivate people to take a settlement and not go to trial in July...this has to be settled soon. If they show up tomorrow and float the buyback + cash thing...I would be very surprised if the judge doesn't press them for a roll-out date.

 

[Jeta Life]

At some point if you plan on replacing your car you will never get more value out of than right now.
I'd say $8k for that car would be a pipe dream for owners in a similar situation.

As much as I'd hate to admit it, TCBinaflash raises a very important point.

If we pass up the offer, good luck in the future (expensive car to maintain).

Take the money and run to whatever your heart desires.

I'm in the same boat with not wanting a new car payment and buying used is buying blindfolded.

The math for me is $3000 per year usually on costs to own and maintain (not inc fuel, insurance, tolls, etc) so it's kind of a crap shoot with this TDI

TDI has not been reliable to me, but it has been a fun car to drive.

If the Reuters feed from Die Welt is true, I may just take the money and run but I have gotten attached to this car, thrown a lot of PM on it.

What to buy next ? New, used or certified, beater or luxury, econobox or gas guzzler, truck or car.

It's a tough call to make if your TDI has been good to you, mine has not.

 

[Philpug]

I think they will go off of a straight percentage of MSRP for the buyback number. Otherwise, who will be appraising the value of each and every car based on September 15 values..and 6 months less of mileage.

 

[turborod]

Judge will rule in California tomorrow. Cough cough
This administration got a former FBI director.
Lawsuits by the EPA, DoJ... Etc
Now it's ( almost ) settled.
Oh, forgot it's an election year...
No trickle down here.... Haha
Already bought my BMW 328 d wagon, all wheel, m package, 8 speed dsg, Dakota red leather, twin turbo 2.0 diesel, double pano roof, Harmon Karmon, 19" wheels.....
Lease return w 17 k......
Haha

 

[MichVW]

It depends on the insurance company. Bottom line it should be based on the sale of like comparable vehicles in your region. In other words you should be able to go out and buy a comparable used car in theory for what they pay. However it may not include, tax, license, registration... if you have a FMV you don't like you can challenge it. Most insurance has ways of doing that. Keeping good pictures, records, list of accessories, will help as well...

If you have a loan you may owe more than they pay. That is the nature of depreciation of a new car and take a loan on. Remember you are obliged for replacement cost, not pay your loan off....

The good news some insurance companies offer gap insurance, to pay off loan, deductible, basically, so you are out your car but not in debt. In theory you can go buy a used car of similar value, finance it and be where you were. My insurance company offers Gap insurance and for a higher premium. They pay FMV + up to $5000 and your deductible.


I have USAA and have FMV + 10%. You pay a small premium. This helps with tax and registration fees.

I'm not disagreeing, but if you have a good high quality insurance you should be able to get back into a similar car for about the same money (or debt) you had before.

You may have to fight the insurance company to be sure. I just read a deal where a guy had an old Civic. It was damaged in an accident. The insurance company paid to fix it, let's say $4,000. Then two years later a deer jumps out from side of road at night, bounces off fender, hood and window. The cost to fix we will say $3500. They totaled the car and said they already paid $4,000 and owed him nothing!!! Now he was paying his comprehensive collision insurance all this time. The insurance said they should have totaled it the first time. Well should have would have could have.... He had it reported on the local TV News and he got a check for $4,500 for his tired Civic (a little more than it was worth).... Depending on state insurance totals cars at 75% of ACV (actual cash value). I am not aware of life time payout on a car. However if you keep wrecking your car they can drop you or jack your premium.... That does happen all the time. Also full comprehensive on an old car is not worth it. Just drag it off and part it out. What is old all depends on the premium and value of the car is. Insurance is like gambling, a game you pay out, lose but don't collect. However unlike gambling you hope you don't "win" a total car. Insurance is paying for something you hope you don't need......

Partially correct... (I am just posting this because someone asked about keeping their dieselgate vehicle and then being involved in a total loss situation) I am not getting into an insurance debate. I have been in the business for my entire life.

GAP insurance is not offered by insurance companies, it is offered by lienholders as an added insurance policy in the event you are upside down on your loan (Insurance settlement is less than you owe). GAP insurance through your lienholder may come with associated fees or a higher interest rate loan. Some credit unions offer it as a courtesy for their members.

Insurance companies offer added "endorsements" that, in a total loss situation, may offer "replacement"" value for your vehicle. Liberty Mutual constantly advertises this. But, if you read the fine print it only applies to certain vehicles with mileage restrictions. You also pay for this added coverage in the form of additional premiums.

Please do not confuse "replacement value" with "actual cash value" or "fair market value". If you have a standard insurance policy, you can expect FMV for your totaled vehicle. It is normally based on "selling prices" of comparable vehicles in your area. It does not take into consideration tax, title or licensing fees.

Normally, if a vehicle is totaled by an insurance company the customer will not be allowed to have full coverage on that vehicle again. You will be limited to liability coverage. The insurance company will not pay you FMV for the vehicle twice. Also, totaled vehicles may have branded titles depending on age and state laws...

Insurance premiums are mainly dictated by "assumption of risk" by the carrier. If you have a terrible driving record, get in 5 accidents a year, or have bad credit, you WILL pay more.

Ok.. back to the dieselgate topic and speculation. GMC jetpilot.... you still think that there will be no buyback? That is what you were preaching a few months ago... Telling everyone they were crazy for even talking about buybacks.. lol.

ok..back to ignore...

 

[highender]

I was selling my tdi when the news broke.

I was asking $19500 for an excellent condition VW TDi 2012 with navigation .

But had to settle for $ 14500 when selling it, because many buyers stayed away from the emissions scandal.

I was defrauded of $5000 , plus they did not give me the goodwill package.

How can I ask VW for the amount ?

 

[MichVW]

I think they will go off of a straight percentage of MSRP for the buyback number. Otherwise, who will be appraising the value of each and every car based on September 15 values..and 6 months less of mileage.

Yep... I hope so... I posted the same concerns about the methodology behind a buyback scenario a few pages back. My concern is what valuing tool they will use to determine the compensation each person is owed in a buyback scenario.

The easiest, quickest, and likely most expensive way for VW would be to base the buyback off MSRP with percentage deductions by year and/or mileage. I really cant see them getting much more complicated than that.

Realistically, I doubt they have the man power to calculate KBB values with options, mileage, and condition for 500,000 vehicles. I doubt that their already ticked off dealerships would be raising their hands to do the extra work.

We shall see tomorrow.

 

[Leeshepard]

I believe you get $5K and you can keep your car or sell it. Kinda like the Goodwill package.

For the $5K (or whatever it is - news reports are suggesting it might be lower), you will almost certainly have to sign a release of all claims against VW. It's not goodwill - it is a settlement.

 

[nucklehead]

Life if FULL of variables...

Something else that is interesting... if the news is correct and they go back to 2015 - they'll have to use mileage from around that time period, right? Those of us still under warranty at that time would have records from our last maintenance and/or the time we activated the cards. So do you drive the crap out of the car realizing every mile driven is value to you UNLESS you wreck it? Or get out as soon as you can?

I've got a long road trip planned in June and am contemplating driving vs. flying. Driving would turn it into a fun trip driving in areas I've always wanted to... so I'd probably drive it and turn in car after the trip BUT with my damn luck I'd wreck it pulling back into town and get paid what the insurance company considers FMV vs. what VW's 2015 FMV offer would be.

You could get run over by a Mack truck tomorrow...

Just saying.

If I were you I'd enjoy the moment - drive the trip and quit worrying about 'variables'. The possibilities are endless.

 

[miniion26]

If you already sold it too bad. You already cut your losses and you are out. Enjoy your civic.

+1. Well said.

 

[Dozenspeed]

How's this for a variant of an owner's situation/sentiment:

I have a high-mileage paid-off Jetta I've used as a taxi for 5 years. The rules state I can use it in service for up to 5 more years contingent upon condition. The car has been great and currently looks/runs/drives great.

I tend to get foolishly attached to my cars generally, and this car's effect on me puts it way up in the upper rungs of all my cars. 1/4 of my driving CAREER has been done in this one single car!

I certainly acheived my primary goal of making this purchase pay off for my purposes, and beyond. Barring a few massive repair bills, this particular unit is gravy now that I'm in the second half of the game. Any changes to my formula compromise profit.

So I don't want to give up this car, and I certainly don't want a dealer tinkering with it. I'm in the $3000 FMV +$5000 =$8000 boat, so that ain't gonna cut it for a paymentless car I possibly stand to collect a couple hundred grand with.

So in my case, even MSRP isn't enough. It would take more like $40k for me to consider the hassle of disrupting my cozy little world by finding a substitute for my beloved little Jetta. Of course I wouldn't expect such a payoff, it's unreasonable to anyone but me.

I don't have any real resentment or displeasure about my TDI purchase, I'm quite the happy camper. But only a fool would turn down free money/refunds on a business equipment purchase, right?

I guess in this case I'll have to see how the/if a fix is required.....

 

[JM Popaleetus]

Of course this buyback announcement happens so soon after this:

I can't be too mad, I'm pretty sure the Jetta saved my life.

 

[jhawklver]

You could get run over by a Mack truck tomorrow...

Just saying.

If I were you I'd enjoy the moment - drive the trip and quit worrying about 'variables'. The possibilities are endless.

True. Of course, this is true about every decision in life that you spend even one second on and thus isn't all that helpful. But your advice is the way I'm leaning depending of course on what the actual news is vs what rumors we are getting.