Volkswagen exec reaffirms commitment to diesel: ‘Now it is absolutely clean’

[BeetleGo]

Let me add a little family perspective: My grandfather and grandmother were both born in 1898 and married in 1918. For a wedding gift, they got a team of draft horses for farming. They bought their first motorized tractor in the mid 40s when the boys did not come back to the farm. My grandparents went from horse and buggy to getting on a jet plane to see their daughter in Florida. Grandma always said that we (her grandchildren) would never see the level of changes in our lives that they did.

I fully expect to be able to dial up a robo-taxi in 10 years. Probably sooner.

 

[BeetleGo]

Of course while it may have seemed that way to grandma, change has actually
accelerated during our generation's time. This will likely continue, barring a global
catastrophe.

Have you read Future Shock? Look around today. Plenty of people lost pace with this ever faster rate of change years ago!

 

[flee]

Have you read Future Shock? Look around today. Plenty of people lost pace with this ever faster rate of change years ago!

Yes, as a high school senior in 1970.
The rate of innovation has little to do with non-technical people losing pace with it.

 

[kjclow]

Just remember that it was Bill Gates that said he could not see a point where people would need a personal computer. How many on here learned to program by punch tape and punch cards? Heaven help you if the tape ripped or you dropped your card deck. We had to have our deck to the reader by 45 minutes after the hour so they could input them and get a response by 15 after. You then had less than 30 minutes to find and fix your mistakes.

 

[atc98002]

My mom worked with punch cards in the '60s in the computer room at the phone company. The only air conditioned room in the entire building. When I was in high school in 1970 we had a keypunch machine in the back of the classroom, but they were being phased out by then. Of course, the federal government is slow to upgrade, so when I started as a controller in 1985 our IBM mainframe still ran our training scenarios via punch cards.

 

[gulfcoastguy]

Just remember that it was Bill Gates that said he could not see a point where people would need a personal computer. How many on here learned to program by punch tape and punch cards? Heaven help you if the tape ripped or you dropped your card deck. We had to have our deck to the reader by 45 minutes after the hour so they could input them and get a response by 15 after. You then had less than 30 minutes to find and fix your mistakes.

I was in on the transition while at college. At the start we used Fortran or Cobol and punch card with the university mainframe, univocal or unison as I called it. The PITA was always crashing. In the middle Apple started cutting a good deal with the Apple II. Towards the end the engineering department mandated Msdos computers using floppy discs. Go forward 35 years and I am typing this on an iMac after 37 years in Microhell.

 

[Anomious]

i want a new Q8, TDI!!

 

[Daemon64]

Hehe I would gladly take a 2020 euro sq5 tdi MHEV. The new ones average US mpg is 34.5 - 35.5 depending on options and mine is 27 US average and that's with it being 1.5s faster to 60... and its CO2 / mi is 279 and mine is 384... crazy

 

[Gary Miyakawa]

I still HAVE some of those punch cards (both the 80 column and 96 column versions... YES, I'm OLD !

 

[D_Bill]

Last spring I bought my second tdi - a 2002 golf w/auto - for a song. Although it got great mpg it had high mileage and the fuzzy logic for the trans was pretty fuzzy ( I reset the trans alot ) . I wanted it because I knew I needed something for 500+ mile one day trips a couple times a week for several months .

I'm down to 500+ ( with an occasional 800-1000 thrown in ) one day trips but less frequently. Upon seeing some really good prices for refurb'd ( recalled ) tdi's I traded for a 2013 tdi 6sp jsw with - 50K miles . I figure its good for 200k -300k more.

I gave ev's and hybrids some consideration but bottom line between the mpg, vehicle cost ( absurdly low as demand is " weak " ) and the lack of ev's for such hi miles in one day the choice was clear.
fwiw - some years back I had a chat with a scientist from DOE who advocated EV's . He had persuasive logic for urban drivers but my logic for suburban/rural ( think fly over country ) prevailed . We agreed to a draw. Given my mileage - tdi's are great .


just my $ 0.02

 

[atc98002]

I have to agree that for your driving scenario, a diesel makes far more sense than an EV. If I was driving those sort of miles daily, I'd absolutely still be driving a TDI. There's a chance that I might move to my planned retirement location before I actually retire, and I would have to drive a bit over 225 miles round trip to the office. I would only do it if I could telework the majority of the time, but I'd still likely have to drive in once a week. If that happens, I'll be picking up a older VW TDI for the drive. My PHEV Niro might get about the same MPG driving that distance, but it's a lease and I wouldn't want to rack up those kind of miles on it. Plus I think something around a 2005-2007 Jetta or Golf would be a very comfortable car for the distance.

 

[nwdiver]

fwiw - some years back I had a chat with a scientist from DOE who advocated EV's . He had persuasive logic for urban drivers but my logic for suburban/rural ( think fly over country ) prevailed . We agreed to a draw. Given my mileage - tdi's are great .


just my $ 0.02

How many years is 'some'? I'm driving ~500 miles from W Texas to Austin at the end of the month. Our only charging stop will be ~15 minutes which we would likely make anyway for lunch. Once there are V3 superchargers that would be more like a 8 minutes of charging.

I'd say EVs with Model 3 type specs (~300mi Range + 250kW Charging) are now more convenient than 99.9% of use cases. I know I enjoy never having to remember if I need to fill up or when my next oil change is. I just plug-in when I get home and get my oil changed ~never

I sold my TDI for a Model S ~7 years ago, I live in fly-over country and IT. HAS. BEEN. AWESOME

160,000 fools fuel free miles and counting

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I'd say EVs with Model 3 type specs (~300mi Range + 250kW Charging) are now more convenient than 99.9% of use cases.

Uh, no. EVs have a long, long way to go before they compare favorably with a TDI that goes over 700 miles on a fill, has an order of magnitude more fill locations, and gets you the next 700 miles in 5 min or less.

Guys I know have a Model 3 and drove it to upstate NY and NH over the holidays. In order to keep the length of time at stops low, they stop every 150-175 miles and charge from 5% to 50-60%. But charger locations sometimes cause them to stop more frequently. And of course they have to stop where there's a charger, not where they want to (I like rest areas, they're cleaner and quieter in some states). Doesn't sound very convenient to me.

 

[jackbombay]

charge from 5% to 50-60%.

If they knew what they were doing they'd charge from %25 to %80, same "miles per hour" of charge rate while maintaining a notably larger cushion for unforeseen events.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

These guys are very well versed in long distance runs in the Model 3, having traveled 47K miles in less than two years. I think it's safe to say they know what they're doing. And some poking around on youtube corroborates their practice.

 

[nwdiver]

Uh, no. EVs have a long, long way to go before they compare favorably with a TDI that goes over 700 miles on a fill, has an order of magnitude more fill locations, and gets you the next 700 miles in 5 min or less.

Why on Earth would any sane person want to drive 700 miles without stopping? And there's no real benefit to an 'order of magnitude' more 'fill locations'. When I'm <100 miles from home I only need 1 (at home). When I'm traveling I just need a spot between point A and B.

Also.... pretty sure there's more places to charge an EV than there are petrol stations. I have >15 sockets in my house alone.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

You're failing to understand the key benefit (to me, anyway) of diesels. Freedom. I can drive where I want, whenever I want, stop where I want...or not...without having to abide by software dictating my route, stop locations, and duration of those stops. I find that freedom invaluable. It's a big part of what I love about driving, and what I enjoy about road trips.

Try plugging your Model S into one of those 15 110v sockets in your house and see how long it takes to charge. And FWIW I have a 275 gallon take of over the road diesel and a pump in my garage. Much quicker than a 220v charger.

 

[nwdiver]

You're failing to understand the key benefit (to me, anyway) of diesels. Freedom. I can drive where I want, whenever I want, stop where I want...or not...without having to abide by software dictating my route, stop locations, and duration of those stops.

You're failing to understand the key benefit (to me, anyway) of EVs. Freedom. I can make my own energy at home from my roof. I don't need any ingredients from a local restaurant (that runs out). I get all the energy I need (plus some) delivered everyday from the sky. I can still drive where I want, whenever I want stop where I want... or not. And many of the places I can stay offer a free fill-up while I'm sleeping

 

[jackbombay]

You're failing to understand the key benefit (to me, anyway) of diesels. Freedom. I can drive where I want, whenever I want, stop where I want...or not...without having to abide by software dictating my route, stop locations, and duration of those stops. I find that freedom invaluable. It's a big part of what I love about driving, and what I enjoy about road trips.

You must be aware that people like you (and me) that drive 1300 miles in a day are so exceedingly rare that statistically we essentially constitute zero percent of the population of the united states, yea?

I do find your irrational resentment of electric vehicles entertaining though!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I find nwdiver's irrational belief that EVs are the right answer for everyone equally entertaining.

I don't resent EVs. I drove my friends' Model 3 on New Year's and was impressed. Not so much by the quiet and power, which I expected (I've driven a Model S in the past) but that if felt like a real car. Info on Tesla's poor build quality are everywhere, but a short drive in this particular car didn't show that. Of course it only has 47K on it, and I'm daily driving a car with 400K. So my bar for NVH, etc., isn't very high.

An EV would work for me for a large portion of my automotive needs. I would not want to use one for road trips. I realize it can be done, but I wouldn't enjoy it. My bigger issue is I wouldn't spend $50,000 (or less, we don't need to argue about that) on ANY car, especially one that doesn't meet 100% of my needs. Others are OK with that, whether they're buying a Tesla, a BMW, or a Porsche. But I'm not, apparently. I got more pleasure helping my kids get through grad school than I would have driving a Porsche.

Occasionally (less often these days) I'll visit a showroom and look at something I view as an "aspirational" car (Porsche Cayman is one example). And I always leave thinking that, even as a life long car enthusiast, I can't see spending that kind of money on a depreciating asset that will simply wear out. Inexpensive cars suit me better, and these days, old inexpensive cars.

 

[jackbombay]

I find nwdiver's irrational belief that EVs are the right answer for everyone equally entertaining.

I'm almost positive that is not his belief.

I bet his "belief" is much more accurately summed up as "EV's are largely capable of everything ICE cars are capable of."

Ultimately we need people like him supporting EV's and people like you that are adamantly opposed to them so the casual observer can identify the logical middle ground.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

You did't read my post if you think I'm adamantly opposed to them. I'm not. I think they have the potential to make a significant contribution to reducing air pollution, and can be a convenient and pleasant alternative to ICE in many applications. If I were still traveling extensively I'd own an EV right now: Access to HOV lanes and preferred parking with a charger at the airport would be enough. And although it's a minor thing, the idea of being able to pre-condition the cabin is very appealing, especially after years of driving a cold-blooded TDI in winter.

I posted elsewhere recently that I'm a bit of a luddite when it comes to cars and technology. I prefer not to have a screen in my car, don't want active safety features, would be happy to forgo ESP, ASR, or even ABS (have one car without any of those). I'm still able to turn my head to back up, seems to work fine in the absence of a back-up camera. And heaven forbid, I much prefer shifting my own gears. So I'm not exactly in anyone's target demographic for any new car.

Unfortunately some EV drivers exhibit a messianic zeal about their vehicles that prevents them from considering that they may not be suitable, or preferable, for some drivers. If someone doesn't want one they're either ignorant or biased. That makes some people simply push back harder on the concept. Unfortunate.

 

[Rrusse11]

"I prefer not to have a screen in my car, don't want active safety features, would be happy to forgo ESP, ASR, or even ABS (have one car without any of those). I'm still able to turn my head to back up, seems to work fine in the absence of a back-up camera. And heaven forbid, I much prefer shifting my own gears." IBW

I see you're old enough to appreciate "the good old days". I suspect I'm a
little further down the track, so yes, luddites we may be. I find the quality
of the "old stuff" is usually much better. The MBAs have managed
to cheapen everything for the sake of their bottom line.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I find the quality of the "old stuff" is usually much better. The MBAs have managed to cheapen everything for the sake of their bottom line.

Guy I know told me once that "the best cars were built in the 90s." I tend to agree. It was a decade when manufacturers had figured out how to meet the current emisisons and safety standards, and when cars were still built to quality standards and priced to cover the cost of manufacture. Since VW launched the MKIV cars in '98, I consider my '02 as a car from the 90s as well.

But accountants (and competition) did take its toll. My '93 Mercedes 300D had a MSRP of $47,500. That's for a car with 119 HP. When Lexus launched the V8 LS400 for $35,000, Mercedes had to cut prices and costs. That's why the successor platform to the W124, the W210, was fraught with problems.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Guy I know told me once that "the best cars were built in the 30s." I tend to agree. It was a decade when manufacturers had figured out how to meet the current emissions and safety standards, and when cars were still built to quality standards and priced to cover the cost of manufacture. Since Ford launched the V8 cars in '32, I consider my '35 one of the best from that era as well.

But accountants (and competition) did take its toll. All cars built since then are more complicated and more expensive and fraught with problems.

They will probably say the same thing 40 years from now. That was the time they used to make "good" cars.

 

[nwdiver]

I find nwdiver's irrational belief that EVs are the right answer for everyone equally entertaining.

99.9% isn't 'everyone'; Math

I'd say EVs with Model 3 type specs (~300mi Range + 250kW Charging) are now more convenient than 99.9% of use cases.

Clearly I agree EVs don't work for 'everyone equally'; There's some people that won't use a form of transportation they can't breed in their barn or fuel from their field.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Cars from the 30s may be great, but really aren't usable on today's roads or in today's traffic. Not fast enough, don't corner well enough, not safe, don't stop well. But many are elegantly designed and extremely well made. The other thing that strikes me about cars from the 90s on is that they are almost all reliable. Cars used to break. And wear out. Even new cars. That's far less common now.

 

[kjclow]

Guy I know told me once that "the best cars were built in the 30s." I tend to agree. It was a decade when manufacturers had figured out how to meet the current emissions and safety standards, and when cars were still built to quality standards and priced to cover the cost of manufacture. Since Ford launched the V8 cars in '32, I consider my '35 one of the best from that era as well.

But accountants (and competition) did take its toll. All cars built since then are more complicated and more expensive and fraught with problems.

They will probably say the same thing 40 years from now. That was the time they used to make "good" cars.

Isn't that the model that Clyde Barrow wrote to Henry Ford about? Told him that he makes one fime automobile.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

There's some people that won't use a form of transportation they can't breed in their barn or fuel from their field.

Um, at the risk of getting misinterpreted and kicking off a flame war, the above statement sure sounds to me like an example of that "messianic zeal" IBW was mentioning up-thread...

 

[Lightflyer1]

Isn't that the model that Clyde Barrow wrote to Henry Ford about? Told him that he makes one fime automobile.

Yes it is. They were killed in a '34 though.