Volkswagen agrees to deal with unions to cut 30,000 jobs

turbovan+tdi

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rotarykid

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Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
I'm just throwing this out there, rotarykid:
you know that repeating the same phrases over and over makes you seem nuts, right?
Your name calling is all well & good, but no one answered the question I posed....

Instead of calling me nuts, why don't one of you address the question I posed..??..

Passenger vehicles which were wrongly allowed to be labeled as truck loophole for industrial use class to get around emissions & CAFE laws in place which were sold in the 100s of millions(some loophole class claimed models were sold in the billions) which produced, still produce extreme amounts of pollution above the passenger class rules which should have been required!

So how is what VWAG did any different( no impact on actual air quality anywhere in the US) than what auto makers have for ~3 decades done using the loophole class for industrial use label on what were in fact passenger offerings skirt, ignore and exceed set passenger class vehicle limits by megatons, for close to ~3 decades of exceeding these same emissions laws.. .???????.....

Automakers are still being allowed to sell passenger vehicles labeled as loophole class offerings skirting passenger class CAFE rules! Where is the outrage on this...????....

How is what VWAG did any different( other than there was no real negative impact on actual air quality anywhere in the US)....

Compared to what auto makers have for ~3 decades now done by dishonestly using the loophole class for industrial use label to illegally sell what were in fact passenger offerings....

Passenger class offerings labeled as loophole for industrial use class to skirt, ignore and exceed set passenger class vehicle emissions limits by megatons & allowed to ignore CAFE rules which clearly applied to all passenger class offerings, for close to ~3 decades of exceeding these same emissions laws.. .???????.....
Only difference I see is that VWAG has been tied to the cross for doing this....While .... the EPA & CARB have looked the other way while these real pollution producers have been for ~3 decades now been given a pass@!@

Where is the outrage this deserves, and to me it actually deserves a little outrage,....
 

CsTDI

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Oct 28, 2004
Location
Baltimore, Maryland
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'10 TouaregTDI, '15 JettaTDI
here is an overview which appears to come pretty much from the EPA website, that briefly describes a kind of allowed barter and trade of bin classifications: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t2.php

what's not clear to me is who is allowed to participate in this (both domestic and foreign?) and whether the origin of not meeting bin classification/emissions standards (such as the '06V10TDIs and perhaps the current dieselgate class) was caused by the manufacturer failing to understand and self-assign to a bin class that would allow the real emissions to meet the standards? or not offsetting it with maybe electric models?, or whether their corporate fleet-average emissions was too high.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
Your name calling is all well & good, but no one answered the question I posed....

Instead of calling me nuts, why don't one of you address the question I posed..??..



Only difference I see is that VWAG has been tied to the cross for doing this....While .... the EPA & CARB have looked the other way while these real pollution producers have been for ~3 decades now been given a pass@!@

Where is the outrage this deserves, and to me it actually deserves a little outrage,....
I am outraged by our lack of diesel cars. I think we should use European emissions standards instead of EPA standards. Then we could have the same diesel cars that they have.
 

Terrific-In-Tahoma

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Jun 4, 2012
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East-of-Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TDI
'01 ALH Jetta M5 / 05 BEW Jetta Wagon A4
VW (Germany) agrees to cut 30,000 jobs.

The part that is missing is this part of the article:

The cuts came with a management pledge to create 9,000 new jobs in the area of battery production and mobility services at factories in Germany as part of efforts to shift towards electric and self-driving cars.
Emphasis is mine.

So, the long term thinking is that by improving the operating margin from 2% to 4%, they will have restored investor and regulator confidence, that the VW brand is not as tarnished, as other brands have become due to shady practices.

Now, If I was part of a region that produced vehicles, and the Consumer Demand warranted a shift, then would you not want the factories to be as efficient as possible?

I would hope that they would do this by a natural course of events, as demand wanes for a certain technology, then that particular segment (of the economy) would become diminished and no longer be competitive.

However, this is a world-wide problem, Population density, and the need to have 1,000s of people move in the most efficient means possible, and be as benign to the environment as possible.

In the urban environment, there will always be different needs, but if you look at the major world city populations, you will see that tailpipe emissions are only one way to restrict and change patterns of traffic use.

The cutting of 30,000 jobs in auto manufacture, means that there are now higher levels of competition for the remaining jobs, to produce x number of vehicles per unit time. (Hour , Shift, Day, Annually).

It is the level of production, with the labor(labour) component now being reduced where the overall cost of a vehicle, is the sum of the parts that go into the delivery of said vehicle.

Now, If the cost to manufacture, a fuel efficient, east to operate vehicle, goes up for one region(Europe) then the impact is that there will be additional demand on the other countries that supply the world market for vehicles, China, S.Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, India.

Since I live in Canada, I cheer for the local team, but unfortunately, for me there is no vehicle that is made domestically that fulfills my needs.

Indirectly, this is good news for the rest of the world-wide auto industry, perhaps, VW might consider opening a new plant in Canada to fulfill the need for the shift to electric and self driving vehicles.
 

piotrsko

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Reno Nv
TDI
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not an issue, there will always be a market for anything, although it may be very small. Look at how many safari's they actually sold.
 

AnotherPerson

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Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
Ford is coming in strong on some diesel development they are adapting from europe. Problem with battery cars will always be that as more people get them electrictity rates will go up and make it not worthwhile. Unless they put a huge motor like tesla did for performance.
 

turbovan+tdi

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Mar 23, 2014
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Good old EPA, hanging VW out to dry while they are doing more damage. :rolleyes:

Well, they should be held liable, but come on, 1 billion for lost wages?
It was for more than that and yeah, can easily see that much having to be paid out.
 

rotarykid

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Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
how about they go after the real polluters, the people or company('s) which first created then abandoned the mine leading to this cesspool of mess..?,,,..
The epa may have made a mistake while trying to clean this mess up, but by no means are they responsible for it's creation leading directly to the spill!!!!

Its defunct, probably the owners are long gone.

So lets say you are working on a dam and you put a hole in it, causing it to collapse and flood/destroy some towns, you and your company aren't responsible? Is that what you are trying to say?

Akin to this-

The agency said federal law grants immunity to government agencies if something goes awry from "discretionary" action taken by its employees.
In August 2015, an EPA contractor hired to slow seepage of pollutants from the mine breached a tunnel wall, unleashing a torrent of wastewater that had built up behind the mountainside.
 

rotarykid

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Joined
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Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Its defunct, probably the owners are long gone.
So lets say you are working on a dam and you put a hole in it, causing it to collapse and flood/destroy some towns, you and your company aren't responsible? Is that what you are trying to say?
Akin to this-

just like school loans are not forgiven in bankruptcy, it could be, should be written into law that cleanup costs are not ever forgiven for messes someone leaves like the miners did.

The specific area is still owned by a mining company, there are active mines in the area which added to water collected in this mine. In colorado there are hundreds of mines just like this one, ticking time bombs that the miners & companies were allowed to just abandon with no cleanup responsibilities.....

Even if bankruptcy is used to get out from under dept, clean up responsibilities should never be forgiven! Today bankruptcy is used to get away without cleaning up the messes that today are hundreds of abandoned mines just like this one all across colorado & the west.

There are also ticking time bombs in the region of NC i know well.....one failure away from flooding country side with toxic mine waste!
 

Pat Dolan

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Location
Martensville, SK
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2003 A4 Variant, 2015 Q7
The EPA has been profoundly anti-diesel, anti-petroleum and heavily politicized for decades. It has been one of the regulatory nightmares that have driven production (and thus jobs) offshore to places where rules, if they even exist at all, are simply not followed.

BTW: the real environmental problem is that we have had a 700% increase in population over the last 100 years. Nobody seems to have the brains or balls to deal with that one.
 

donDavide

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Oct 4, 2005
Location
Severna Park, Maryland USA
TDI
2003 Jetta ;2006 Golf; 2015 Jetta S
The EPA has been profoundly anti-diesel, anti-petroleum and heavily politicized for decades. It has been one of the regulatory nightmares that have driven production (and thus jobs) offshore to places where rules, if they even exist at all, are simply not followed.

BTW: the real environmental problem is that we have had a 700% increase in population over the last 100 years. Nobody seems to have the brains or balls to deal with that one.
Well said, and Carrier is a prime example.
 

Dimitri16V

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Joined
Jan 30, 2005
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DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
20% tarrif on Mexican made VWs will be the last nail on the VW coffin
They better start planning in moving production to US , otherwise adios USA
Germans are so short sighted , wait till the eurozone implodes in few years
 

turbovan+tdi

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Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
BTW: the real environmental problem is that we have had a 700% increase in population over the last 100 years. Nobody seems to have the brains or balls to deal with that one.
Stop with the facts, EPA doesn't like that, :eek:
 

Technician!

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Apr 12, 2011
Location
Jackson, Michigan
TDI
None, currently
The EPA has been profoundly anti-diesel, anti-petroleum and heavily politicized for decades. It has been one of the regulatory nightmares that have driven production (and thus jobs) offshore to places where rules, if they even exist at all, are simply not followed.

BTW: the real environmental problem is that we have had a 700% increase in population over the last 100 years. Nobody seems to have the brains or balls to deal with that one.
You are correct. Their anti-diesel mentality and corruption (Diesels are dirty and stinky, don't you know!!!) is the basis for all this crap. Now they are questioning FCA (Fiat Chrysler Autos) about their diesels. It's not that FCA's didn't pass...and they didn't cheat...but because of the way the data was reported to them.
EPA is totally misguided, and has lost direction. They have been taken over by wack-o's.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
20% tarrif on Mexican made VWs will be the last nail on the VW coffin
They better start planning in moving production to US , otherwise adios USA
Germans are so short sighted , wait till the eurozone implodes in few years
But a 20 % tariff ~~ might-could-may put a floor under the resale price of the remaining vw TDI(s) on the roads here in America:D
 
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