Volkswagen: “We will improve quality”

[CT_Gman]

Owners are having hpfp failures within a few months.

Secondly - other car makers are able to adequately perform testing and evaluation. Maybe VW needs to subcontract out vehicle reliability testing to Toyota or Honda. Hell, ford quality testing would be an improvement.

I was a long time Honda owner. Lots and lots of miles with zero MAJOR issues... MINOR issues, that is another story! My 2007 Civic coupe "creaked" anytime you did a slow turn, my 94 lost the complete AC system at 30k miles, and the list goes on. Nobody is immune!

 

[03_01_TDI]

I had two civic for a total of 7 years. Between them both I had one cel that was an 02 sensors and one recall on control arms. Near zero issues with those two repairs. The techs did act stupid when I had an alignment done due to the factory sold lowering kit..... That said the 2006-2009 civics have a known issue with engine block cracking and they extended the engine block warranty out to cover it. Sadly even without a warranty the engine block replacement is cheaper than a hpfp.

 

[Pat Dolan]

I fully agree with the 95% fantastic and 5% truly idiotic proportion. However, the 5% of screw-up is seldom anything to do with the genuine innovations in design at VW. It is just part of typical German arrogance.

In my days in the VW biz you could pretty much count on exactly the same parts failing in every car at about the same time for YEARS of consecutive production. When one challenged management at VWC (and I assume VWOA) you were met with such incredible statements as "it must be zomthink der gustomers do mit our owtomobiles", or "vy do ze dealers not fix them like ve DELL them to?" It is NEVER the manufacturer's fault, so they just keep making the same truly defective parts (such as air cooled engines with inadequate airflow to #3 exhaust area of head, MkII door handles, MkIV US spec struts, PD cams, MkI bodies that drop an endless supply of water onto the overloaded little pins of the fuse block, and...well, you guys know the rest).

Now, back in the day, that just meant more business for the dealers, but today, we have such a fantastic web of communication and well developed aftermarket, we can just count these annoying little quirks as an opportunity to fix the small shortcomings of these otherwise fantastic bits of engineering and technology (and, in some cases, yes, I will say it...ART). It is a price I have willingly paid for more than four decades of riding along with one of the real innovators in the automotive world.

Just think back to how VW has been responsible for defining several genres of automobile - the international people's compact car AND truck, the hot and just simply useable hatch, heck the DIESEL everyone could buy. I walk out in the drive and see Mamma's MkIV variant and my Golf Country, and marvel at what they HAVE done.

 

[Grievous Angel]

You mean... like the window-dropping-into-the-door or lousy door switch? (guess what just went wrong with our 2003...)

Exactly why I bought a hideous 2003 Toyota Corolla over that handsome 2003 Jetta, not wanting to deal with this kind of stuff (it was actually the rampant complaints about the windows--plastic window clips or some crap like that seemed to be all the rage on here when I was checking out the TDI back then)

200k trouble free miles later, I say to hell with it--and plop right into a 2012 common rail just waiting to explode on me (I wasn't aware of the HPFP risks when I purchased).

38k miles so far with no problems outside of a couple of cabin rattles.

 

[Grievous Angel]

The cutting edge of technology is precisely WHY the German cars often are finicky, and have some teething troubles, and steep learning curves for those unfamiliar with them. You realize a 2000 Golf has a more sophisticated on-board electrical system than a 2000 Lexus LS400? Heck, I had a 2008 Mercury Mariner in here yesterday that has a climate control system with NO bidirectional data or output testing available via OBD! Nothing! In 2008!!!

I would say Mercedes and BMW are the best (or worst) offenders here. They are always adding next level tech to their cars.

And someone else said it around here--even our every day TDI is pretty exotic compared to most cars--HPFP, DPF, DSG . . what the hell was I thinking.

 

[bannister]

You know what always has seemed to be so aggravating to me, as a Volkswagen fan, owner, and technician, is that the cars in general are 95% good. But that 5% that is bad, is TERRIBLE bad. Like, no-excuse-to-be-that bad kind of bad. But, you'd think that because the bad stuff would be SO PAINFULLY OBVIOUS, that it would be very easy for a company like Volkswagen to reign it in and correct it.
Somehow, they so often miss the target. I don't know if it is the Germans cannot take constructive criticism or if they really don't field test stuff properly. I like 'em anyways, and am always enamored enough with the 95% that is good that I can easily deal with that nasty 5%, but I totally get how some people can't or won't.
I so often find myself thinking "Come on guys, really? Is this THAT difficult for you to figure out?"

That hit the nail on the head in my case. VW bought the car back and now it's sitting on a dealer's lot for sale.

 

[tdi90hp]

I guess I'm just lucky. I think VW's quality is fine. Of course I haven't owned anything else in so long that I don't have any frame of reference. But I have no complaints. Never had a Relay 109 fail, no HPFP either (yet). And no window clips.

Same here. I know maybe I am just biased but I get in my car......I drive 800 Kim's to Quebec City.....I work....I get in my car and I drive home. nothing but nothing has changed in 80,000 Kim's and I still have 90 percent on my brakes!!
My 03 jetta TDI drove the same way for 276,000kms.....one glow plug went bad and one windshield got smucked. Guess I am lucky? No clutches, no brakes, no electronic issues, no windows dropping.....Nothing!........yet.....lol.

 

[03_01_TDI]

Oil leak on my 2013 with 2500 miles. Small amount from the turbo oil feed line.

 

[Rodinal220]

 

[Liberated]

this thread is making me sort of nervous lol. I just bought my first VW, '13 Golf TDI. 600 miles so far, the only issue I have is the car not being able to find the ipod that is hooked up/dumping it during play.

 

[Terrific-In-Tahoma]

Congratulations and welcome.

this thread is making me sort of nervous lol. I just bought my first VW, '13 Golf TDI. 600 miles so far, the only issue I have is the car not being able to find the ipod that is hooked up/dumping it during play.

Here you will find tons if information from old and new.

While this thread may seem ominous at first, when you contrast that with the other makes and models, I am sure you will be proud of your purchase.

I am assuming that you have a long term plan for the car, and since you are in FL, that you have a trustworthy mechanic in mind for the common wear items that a car goes through as it ages.

While there is some merit to the dealer service plan while the car is under warranty, my personal experience is that VWOA are just waiting for you to come back for the x mile checkup.

As long as you are reading here, at the 1000q at another forum, and at other forums for other brand(s) of vehicle(S), you can get a feel for what is a fine line for the manufacturer(s) to design a car, when you consider that the N.American Auto group (GM,Ford,Chrysler) has a very effective marketing departments that spend really big bucks , so that the informed customer gets totally confused about the newest whiz-bank thing.

Some things are dreadfully dumb for a North American Auto importer, and other things are truly innovative.

Keep your eyes open and meet you fellow VW drivers at a nearby meet-and-greet, its amazing what you can learn with a personal conversation that is not about one-upsmanship.

enjoy every mile that you drive, as you go past the pumps with your tank barely at half empty while the other car you may have been looking at you may be filling up again.

Cheers
-T

 

[Liberated]

Here you will find tons if information from old and new.

While this thread may seem ominous at first, when you contrast that with the other makes and models, I am sure you will be proud of your purchase.

I am assuming that you have a long term plan for the car, and since you are in FL, that you have a trustworthy mechanic in mind for the common wear items that a car goes through as it ages.

While there is some merit to the dealer service plan while the car is under warranty, my personal experience is that VWOA are just waiting for you to come back for the x mile checkup.

As long as you are reading here, at the 1000q at another forum, and at other forums for other brand(s) of vehicle(S), you can get a feel for what is a fine line for the manufacturer(s) to design a car, when you consider that the N.American Auto group (GM,Ford,Chrysler) has a very effective marketing departments that spend really big bucks , so that the informed customer gets totally confused about the newest whiz-bank thing.

Some things are dreadfully dumb for a North American Auto importer, and other things are truly innovative.

Keep your eyes open and meet you fellow VW drivers at a nearby meet-and-greet, its amazing what you can learn with a personal conversation that is not about one-upsmanship.

enjoy every mile that you drive, as you go past the pumps with your tank barely at half empty while the other car you may have been looking at you may be filling up again.

Cheers
-T

Thank you I appreciate it

 

[Terrific-In-Tahoma]

US Centric bias?

Exactly.

There is something to be said about Japanese Total Quality Management (it was invented by an American...), that they prefer to incrementally improve their products.

One little improvement here, another little improvement there, while keeping what works: intact.
​

There comes a point when little by little, it all adds up to HUGE QUALITY IMPROVEMENTS.

In the mean time, the German (and Detroit) style of Quality Improvement is by making leaps and bounds, and all the while ticking off the customer base, and losing 50% of them with each product generation.

I do not believe 'TQM' was invented by anyone, as a 'Quality' Item has been around in the manufacturing and industrial worlds for a long time.

TQM was advanced by individuals such as Dr. W.E. Deming (US), J.M. Juran (Romanian born), A.V. Feigenbaum (US).

There is always a different way to do something, and different approaches to solving problems.

GM adopted the Annual Model Change from the fashion industries of the 1930's.

With the cost of certain changes being in the not just 10,000 of Dollars, but 100,000 , even what may appear as a simple change really does cost a lot of money.

It is a fine line between implementing changes that improve the quality of a product, divided by the number of copies that can be produced in a run, and the implementation of a change that customers may not like.

Market Share is a very dynamic number , and when it drops too low for a particular Model/Brand, then even the whole company can be put at risk. ( AMC / Delorean / Pontiac / Nash / Lada to name a few that have disappeared from the N.American Market)

According to the article currently available on Wikipedia about the Toyota Accelerator Pedal Recall from 2009-2011, the economic impact was in the range of US$2,000 Million for 2010 over this series of incidents.

Thanks to JelSoft (now called vBuletin), This computer Software is available for BBS applications, that does not mean it is perfect, but it is Good (for the price).

It has a familiar trend, where features and benefits are marketed ahead of Needs and requirements.

By being on this board, all readers are able to share their experiences, and their suggestions, and this is a very powerful tool to aid in a buying decision. By Choosing a TDI over other brand(s), we as a user community have shown a solid trend and both Detroit.US and Wolfsberg.DE are aware of what the user community is highlighting as problems.

How they handle the various problems either aids or hinders the brand loyalty factor.

I am sure that following the 2009-2011 Toyota problem, and the recall notices, that a certain percentage of implemented 'fixes', were actually performed wrong and resulted in additional 'defect management claims' were not what Toyota corporate were happy about.

If VWOA was interested in fixing the long standing issues that have persisted over model changes, then they would be implementing them as I write, but alas, economics and competitive pressures may actually hinder the implementation of changes that are really really expensive ,vs the expected life of that incremental change.

I apologize if this sounds like a long winded rant, but to suggest that TQM was (or is) an exclusive to USA product of being 'invented' here, I respectfully disagree.

The Famous Pyramids are still standing in Egypt, so far they have been estimated as being approximately 4800 years old. I would say as a quality item may be considered an exception to the Building communities, however to have 1 still standing after almost 4800 years of existence is a testament to the engineering involved.

Its a world-wide quest to have the products that people wish to purchase 'invented' ore even manufactured in the home country, however with multiple country licensing and multi-national collectives able to both abett and hinder innovation, its a slimmer and slimmer chance to find some part of a car that has 'Made in USA' stamped or molded into it.

[Although there are exceptions, today from one of my local parts supplier, a piece of vacuum tubing actually had 'Made in USA' stamped into it]

Even GM is importing engines from China for its Equinox line of vehicles, from its world-wide partner parts network.

 

[squeegee_boy]

What concerns me is the apparent slide from stupid little things that were irritants to drivetrain problems. A case in point is the failure of the heater core in my 1992 Corrado which was built two years after I received an extended warranty remibursement for the exact same failure heater core failure in my 1987 GTI.
Years later, I knew my window regulators were going to fail on my 2004 Jetta before I bought it, and for better or worse, I kind of expect that kind of stuff from a VW. I always justified those items in my mind knowing that the car would not leave me stranded. I've racked up over 1,000,000 in a half-dozen VWs over the years and can only recall being stranded once.
Now I look at the current offerings and I see HPFPs in Golfs, Jettas, and Touaregs, and turbo failures in Passats. I understand the nature of the forums, but I don't see anything that concerns me in Ford forums related to my Ford.
Cars are getting more complicated, but even in taxi service, Toyota has managed to make the Prius even more reliable than the refrigerator it was modeled after. My take is that VW has not only failed to improve, but they've gone backward.

 

[Daekar]

I would consider myself somewhat lucky too. But being around cars all day, I can't let blind love over rule common sense. Many common items I fix on cars like mine I don't have break myself. Luck perhaps, or in many cases simply avoiding the reasons that cause it in the first place, and being proactive about the rest.
Cases in point: my Passat's CV boots. I replaced the originals at 100,000 miles... and they were not even split. I simply avoid sharp turns (and my wife has been trained to do the same). Yet we replace B5 Passat, Audi A4/A6/Allroad/etc. outer boots constantly here. CONSTANTLY. It's crazy.
My '91 Jetta... all 4 original outer door handles. All of them! And they all still work like new! Yet anyone that knows the A2s, knows broken outside door handles were a VERY common problem. 20+ years of being gentle, and yearly clean/lube and I've managed to avoid that.
So I think maybe the cars' quality isn't so bad... to the right person.

This reminds me of my experience with my old 1999 Subaru Outback... I brought the engine back to life when I got it and gave it nothing but premium parts and fluids. By the time I was finished it was perfectly reliable and drove well for an automatic. I had a 55mph commute on secondary roads up and down hills and I got close to 30mpg with care.... I babied that car. When my Jetta came into the picture, I sold that car to a relative, who does not baby anything. Within 6 months he had a spark plug electrode break off and had to replace the transmission, and after a year the car looked neglected and filthy even though it ran fine after the mechanical work. He has NEVER approached the fuel economy I got.
Would those problems have happened if I had kept the car? I'm betting the spark plug problem would have and the transmission wouldn't... but there's no way to know with anecdotes. Given his record with other vehicles it certainly seems suggestive though...

 

[PlaneCrazy]

VW Quality: if we consider customer service as part of the VW "quality" experience, then it's a fail. Here's my HPFP story:

1) Bring car in on Monday, June 10, to have a stuck rear brake caliper fixed and to complain about power loss at around 3000 rpm, on occasion, during vigorous acceleration (e.g. tight merge, overtaking)
2) Dealer fixes brake on Tuesday, diagnoses HPFP fail, tells me that it will be covered under powertrain warranty Tuesday morning.
3) Tuesday afternoon, calls to say "sorry, HPFP not part of the powertrain warranty, estimated cost $1900 to replace, no need to replace any other plumbing, not much metal contamination".
4) I complain bitterly, car is still 8k km inside powertrain warranty. Dealer said part on order, will arrive next day (Wednesday). Agrees to take issue to dealership manager.
5) Calls back Wednesday AM to say VW and dealer agreed to 2/3 compensation. Said I'm not satisfied and I will go after VW for the balance, but go ahead and fix car. Says car will be ready Thursday evening.
6) Calls back Thursday to apologize and say "VW has put a hold on our HPFP order, part stuck in Toronto, no idea why it's on hold". Says they won't charge for the rental replacement car for the rest of the time my car is down.
7) Finally finds out Monday morning that the part is on hold because technician has to call the VW Tech Line first to confirm diagnosis and replacement procedure, says this is a "long process" (basically I guess, it takes a mechanic offline for a couple of hours); says I can keep rental car all weekend, no charge.
8) I find out it's a reman part; dealer changes order to new pump (8 in stock in Toronto), will arrive Monday.
9) Monday, 1 week later, still no car. Technician hadn't spoken to tech line yet. Part will arrive Tuesday.
10) Tuesday morning, I call for an update as I was working in town (near the dealer) so hoped to pick up my car after work. Dealer calls back to say "part finally released, will arrive Wednesday morning (today), car SHOULD be ready Wednesday evening.

So far no news and still no car... driving crappy Jetta 2.slow automatic rent... oops... loaner. Sure do miss my Golf TDI in spite of the issues.

I am re-evaluating my next steps. As I told my wife last night, no other car on the road matches my needs so closely right now, so I'm inclined to tough my Golf out one more year and hope it holds up as I'm a bit upside-down on the loan at the moment, unless I can engineer a VW buy-back. Then I'd probably get another Golf, maybe a 2.5 or GTI gasser and give up fuel efficiency and convenience (or distant plan B Ford Focus hatch), but NO TDI again until the Mk VII with the Passat-based HPFP and air-to-coolant intercooler (I also had intercooler icing issues).

So far, touch wood, my wife's new 2013 has been perfect in 14k km... we'll see how it holds out, she drives half as much mileage as I do in a year.

 

[bhtooefr]

Really, after that, are you sure you want to deal with that company?

I'd say ditch it for a Focus or Fiesta if you can get out of it.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Really, after that, are you sure you want to deal with that company?

I'd say ditch it for a Focus or Fiesta if you can get out of it.

Financially, I'm between a rock and a hard place. Do I want to be raped by getting out of an upside-down loan? Or do I want to be raped by repairs?

The upside-down loan is a sure thing if I go that route. The repairs, if I keep the car, are a roll of the dice.

We'll see how it goes. Dealer called about an hour ago to say that the car is ready, I'll be picking it up after work. Total bill, for brake repair, HPFP and a couple of days of rental, $1991.

 

[bhtooefr]

I was meaning, if you were getting a buyback out of the deal.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Well I got it back. It does seem noticeably smoother. When we bought my wife's 2013 wagon I thought my engine sounded more "metallic" than hers. No more. So perhaps their diagnosis was right... I will be driving home on the highway later and watching fuel consumption closely...

 

[El Dobro]

Is there any way you can check the fuel filter to make sure the dealer was correct about metal contamination?

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Is there any way you can check the fuel filter to make sure the dealer was correct about metal contamination?

Finally drove it home (100 km). I think they were right. The engine is noticeably smoother. Perhaps that's the "placebo" effect or my mind playing tricks trying to justify the expense, but I remember when we bought my wife's wagon last fall, I had this nagging feeling it was smoother than my car; yet when I bought my car, I found the Mk VI hatch marginally smoother and quieter than the Mk V wagon.

My engine's sound, after comparing to my wife's, seemed more "metallic".

Time will tell, I'm driving my wife's tomorrow to bring it in for its 15k service. Should be a good comparison.

Fuel consumption was normal for a return home from Montreal (net 350 ft uphill), 4.8 L/100 km

 

[RayGatz]

As a Newbie...
And today Especially, I am Quite Happy With our VW regional Service Manager As i got a call from VW Service headquarters Informing me that they will Replace my Fender AND fix the Rust at the bottom front corner of my Driver door under the "12 year Corrosion- perforation body panel Warranty" ... We are expecting a call from our local VW tomorrow to schedule an appointment at their body shop...

and to boot, VW of Leesberg FL. Who has been so Kind and friendly... We realized we have NO Key for our alloy locks (while waiting to get new tires installed at Sams) Drove it to our Friendly Leesberg VW Dealer where their service manager "Robbie" personally removed our locks and installed 4 standard lug nuts... (NO CHARGE) WOW... Blessed...

Now Rewind 2 weeks... VW of Ocala ...I brought it in and received courteous service and response to my concerns until "Service Manager" Mr. xxxxx ?? comes out... Bad News it was a very Rough Experience as I was treated like a low class citizien or something...

The first service personnel rep. started pointing out the manual details to the Manager who said " I know what that says" and something like shut up to the guy.... I went home feeling abused and called VW headquarters with my concerns and desire to file a corrosion/perforation claim (not before making an appointment with my Now Favorite VW Place in the world in Leesberg....) Regional gave me a case # got together with Local my VW... and here we are..... So far I am a happy Camper....