VCDS Mobile email notification this morning...

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
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cape cod, ma
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82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
i plan to order on friday when i get paid... hopefully there will be some in stock! :)
 

romad

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Mine is scheduled to arrive next Thursday. I'm glad I ordered the "unlimited" version as at my Mac user group meeting last night, a member asked if anyone had "VAG-COM". So when it arrives, I'll be trying it out on two cars, mine and his.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
i'm wanting to purchase one, but the website isn't allowing to add them to the cart. did i miss out? :(

OOPS. i spoke too soon, just checked back in and looks like they are available...
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
yay, just ordered. can't wait to try this out :D
 

bizzle

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Hopefully your mobile team is considering a Lite version for $99 bucks or whatever that works with unsupported wifi/bt devices similar to the unsupported devices you can register vcds to work with in limited fashion currently
 

JSWTDI09

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Hopefully your mobile team is considering a Lite version for $99 bucks or whatever that works with unsupported wifi/bt devices similar to the unsupported devices you can register vcds to work with in limited fashion currently
I doubt it. I suspect that the only "lite" version is the one they already have. There is far to much development cost in the wi-fi interface to ever sell it for anything less several hundred dollars. I would certainly not hold my breath for a $99 wi-fi version and a Bluetooth version would be too problematic.

Have Fun!

Don
 

bizzle

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I'm not talking about selling a cheaper device, I'm talking about *only* mobile VCDS (none of the standard VCDS stuff) for unsupported hardware (like those ELM devices that people use with Torq).

I may not feel like giving up my wired for wireless but I would like to get some of those nifty gauges and I'd rather throw Ross-Tech $100 bucks instead of Rev or whathaveyou iOS dev
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
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The problem is that that would require a full porting effort, and the entire reason for the HEX-NET was so that their porting effort was to their platform.

If you're porting to a mobile platform, the OS changes against your control.
 

roostre

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Puget Sound, WA
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I'm not talking about selling a cheaper device, I'm talking about *only* mobile VCDS (none of the standard VCDS stuff) for unsupported hardware (like those ELM devices that people use with Torq) .....
To use third-party bluetooth or WiFi enabled OBD-II adapters would require Ross-Tech to write and support multiple software applications to run on a variety of devices (i.e. Apple's MacOS & iOS, Google's Android, Microsoft's WindowsOS & RT, and Linux). Ross-Tech would also have to test these software applications with a variety of third-party bluetooth and WiFi enabled OBD-II adapters.

Rather than spend resources supporting multiple device specific software applications and third-party OBD-II adapters, I would prefer for Ross-Tech to eventually include the full capabilities of VCDS into the HEX-NET adapter.

From my understanding:

"VCDS-Mobile" is software that is loaded and runs on the HEX-NET adapter. This software includes "web server" functionality to allow any device with a "web browser" to display VCDS results.

Only a limited amount of VCDS functionality is currently programmed into the HEX-NET adapter, however full VCDS capabilities are available with VCDS-Mobile when the HEX-NET adapter has internet access to the World Wide Web and can communicate with Ross-Tech's servers (or when connecting to a personal Windows PC which has the VCDS software loaded even when there is not internet access to Ross-Tech's servers).
 

tadawson

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To use third-party bluetooth or WiFi enabled OBD-II adapters would require Ross-Tech to write and support multiple software applications to run on a variety of devices (i.e. Apple's MacOS & iOS, Google's Android, Microsoft's WindowsOS & RT, and Linux). Ross-Tech would also have to test these software applications with a variety of third-party bluetooth and WiFi enabled OBD-II adapters.
.
Or one port, if a cross platform development toolkit is used. There are still the complexities of testing, but in this day and age, cross platform support is nowhere near as difficult as some would have you believe. The OBD devices mentioned are just Bluetooth serial, so no issues supporting the connectivity either, since it's a standard.

Now how well that el-cheapo Chintastic turd of an interface Elmo bought for $10 works, *that* is the more major issue . . .

- Tim
 

gmenounos

Vendor
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Location
Watertown, MA, USA
TDI
'99.5 Golf GLS, '01 Jetta GLX Wagon (TDI conversion)
QUESTIONS: My questions are not about VCDS-Mobile they are about classic VCDS. For those who have used classic VCDS on Windows 8 tablets:

1) How well does VCDS work on a Windows 8 tablets which have smaller displays than laptops and also do not have a mouse or keyboard?

2) Is it too easy to make a fumbled "tap" or "touch and hold" gesture that would mess you up when using VCDS on a tablet?

3) Did you need to purchase a more expensive tablet like the Microsoft Surface Pro which has additional full size USB ports or were you able to use tablets which have only one Micro USB port (whose purpose is mainly intended for charging the tablet)?

4) Were any special cables (like an OTG adapter) required to connect the Windows 8 tablet which has only one Micro USB port to the Ross-Tech Micro-CAN or HEX-USB+CAN products?
1) Earlier this week I bought a Dell Venue 8 Pro, mainly to run VCDS, and so far it works great.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/422081/Venue_8_Pro_Tablet

The 32GB version is on sale right now for $199 but they have a couple of returned open-box-with-warranty units at the Cambridge, MA location for $159, which is a real steal. I bought an open-box 64GB unit.

2) I haven't had any input issues so far. There's a soft keyboard that you can pop up at any time you need to type letters/numbers. "Mouse" input is done by tapping the same spot on the screen that you would position the mouse pointer to.

3) With an inexpensive adapter, the micro-USB port works fine with VCDS. However the Venue 8 has a micro-AB USB port, which I consider a design flaw because it's not D-shaped like other flavors of micro-USB ports. This makes it possible to accidentally plug in the cable backwards and damage the socket. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USB_Micro-AB_receptacle.jpg
I think it'll be fine if you're careful with it.

4) You need an adapter like this:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/404510/USB_OTG_Micro_USB_Male_to_USB_A_Female_Adapter

Overall, it's a really nice little tablet. Runs Netflix, comes with a full version of Office 2013 and the battery life is very good.
 

Uwe

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
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Location
Lansdale, PA, USA
Or one port, if a cross platform development toolkit is used.
At which point the toolkit essentially becomes your platform and you're forever dependent on whoever made it to stay around and to support future versions of your target OSs, as well as any new OSs that come out and get popular. No thanks. We've been at this for a while (14 years now!) and would like to be around 14 yeas from now, so we looked for the most future-proof approach possible.

Oh, and then there's also the question of being able to do real-time stuff at the car's data-link connector, through somebody else's "tool kit" and a 3rd-party wireless interface? Generic OBD-II isn't very demanding that way, but some of VW's native stuff is.

-Uwe-
 

tadawson

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Amazing that most other companies don't see this as a problem, and especially not if it's an open source kit with no corporate dependencies (read: idiot management to make bad decisions). Heck Java even fills the need, and if you honestly think there is any risk of that vanishing anytime soon, I think you need a reality check. My company has a UI product that runs on Win, Mac, Solaris, HP/UX, iPoo, and Android (maybe others, I forget), and while the iPoo and Android variants are different due to miniscule screen real estate, still the same thing. No fear of anything dying - heck, we have far greater problems with hardware going end of life than anything in software. Hardware is far less future proof, at least in our experience, so unless you have100% ownership of all component mfg and fab, you still have risks of getting dropped on your head at some point, and I don't think that many would argue that software evolution across an OS platforms lifetime is far simpker than a full architecture port when the chip you chose to use (or possibly the embeded OS) vanishes. There us always risk - the trick is to manage it, but not at your customers expense.

- Tim
 
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bhtooefr

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Newark, OH
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None
Does Apple even allow you to use a JVM on iOS?

And, there's incompatibilities between different, very close, versions of the Sun/Oracle J2SE JVM, let alone between different vendors of JVMs and Java-like VMs. Especially when you start getting into timing-dependent hardware access.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Does Apple even allow you to use a JVM on iOS?

And, there's incompatibilities between different, very close, versions of the Sun/Oracle J2SE JVM, let alone between different vendors of JVMs and Java-like VMs. Especially when you start getting into timing-dependent hardware access.
I don't think so as Java and Flash are the two primary routes for what Mac malware there is to get into Mac OS X, and iOS is based on a kernel of Mac OS X.
 

CopaMundial

Veteran Member
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Location
Southeastern PA
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03 Jetta Wagon 5sp (New to me Oct 2014) 03 Jetta 5sp (RIP Aug 2014)
With all of this highly valuable expert testimony in this thread I hope someone will step up to the plate and make Ross-Tech pay for these perceived offenses against the marketplace.

If they were doing such a poor job at things that are so easy (judging by this thread) then it seems like someone could easily displace them with a better product, better service, and better pricing.

I look forward to a wave of new people registering as a vendor and posting regarding the progress of their tool development.

But you may want to shop around a bit first. Ross-Tech offers a variety of options. Their tools do far more than those costing less and they equal (or beat) those costing far more. If something they sell suits your needs then buy it and be happy. If not, then don't buy it and be happy with that.
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
TDI
1998 Jetta tdi
With all of this highly valuable expert testimony in this thread I hope someone will step up to the plate and make Ross-Tech pay for these perceived offenses against the marketplace.

If they were doing such a poor job at things that are so easy (judging by this thread) then it seems like someone could easily displace them with a better product, better service, and better pricing.

I look forward to a wave of new people registering as a vendor and posting regarding the progress of their tool development.

But you may want to shop around a bit first. Ross-Tech offers a variety of options. Their tools do far more than those costing less and they equal (or beat) those costing far more. If something they sell suits your needs then buy it and be happy. If not, then don't buy it and be happy with that.
:rolleyes: It is another sad day here. My vcds cable (the pre-awesome model) sits quietly on a shelf, next to the dedicated netbook needed to run it. I just don't know what to do, the friggin car keeps starting and working the way it should after 16 model years. Sadly my vcds cable has become a conversation piece, maybe I should buy the new awesome version (wonder if it comes in various decorative colors) to spruce up the room.

But alas, the killer application for this new awesome product to a poor enthusiast whose car runs, who has bills to pay and priorities has no real need for another, more expensive first aid kit to sit around to rescue one of three brands of vehicle. If only it would work on other brand vehicles......if only it would offer something my current vcds cable doesn't offer ......but heck Vista was a huge success cover XP even without a killer application either. ............

PS: I thought about linking "the next great thing" Samsung Commercial here (the one that demonstrates how the new charging plug for Iphone goes in the bottom), but I think I already made my point to all the XP users that still refuse to upgrade to Vista or the latest platform ...........
 

romad

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....but heck Vista was a huge success cover XP even without a killer application either. ....
he said, tongue firmly planted in his cheek. MS seems to alternate between fail/success. XP was a big success, Vista not very much, Win 7 a big success, Win 8 not as much as Vista. Be interesting to see what Win 9 does.
 

tadawson

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Location
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With all of this highly valuable expert testimony in this thread I hope someone will step up to the plate and make Ross-Tech pay for these perceived offenses against the marketplace.

If they were doing such a poor job at things that are so easy (judging by this thread) then it seems like someone could easily displace them with a better product, better service, and better pricing.

I look forward to a wave of new people registering as a vendor and posting regarding the progress of their tool development.

But you may want to shop around a bit first. Ross-Tech offers a variety of options. Their tools do far more than those costing less and they equal (or beat) those costing far more. If something they sell suits your needs then buy it and be happy. If not, then don't buy it and be happy with that.
The value in the Ross Tech tool is thier knowledge of VAG protocols, and abilities to keep them researched and current, not necessarily the implementation. Knowing *WHAT* to implement I would estimate at 95% of the work - coding a solution is the easier part . . . And choice of what platforms to support and how are simply that: a choice, and not a hard technical requirement.

- Tim
 

tadawson

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2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Does Apple even allow you to use a JVM on iOS?

And, there's incompatibilities between different, very close, versions of the Sun/Oracle J2SE JVM, let alone between different vendors of JVMs and Java-like VMs. Especially when you start getting into timing-dependent hardware access.
You simply implement the timing dependent stuff in the dongle, and walk away from the problem. Granted, not at the same level, but this is what the better OBD tools do - comm and timing are buffered by the dongle hardware.

You can also embed the JVM you need in your deliverable, and also avoid the problem (at least in regard to Java).

- Tim
 

dzcad90

Rolex & gin
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Location
Joliet, IL USA
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Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
At which point the toolkit essentially becomes your platform and you're forever dependent on whoever made it to stay around and to support future versions of your target OSs, as well as any new OSs that come out and get popular. No thanks. We've been at this for a while (14 years now!) and would like to be around 14 yeas from now, so we looked for the most future-proof approach possible.

Oh, and then there's also the question of being able to do real-time stuff at the car's data-link connector, through somebody else's "tool kit" and a 3rd-party wireless interface? Generic OBD-II isn't very demanding that way, but some of VW's native stuff is.

-Uwe-
Thank GOD R-T never went the Java way. Let me say it again.. Thank you.

Java is such a nightmare to administer and keep secure. Sure, for developers it's a lay down - you can program in C/C++? You can probably adapt to Java fairly quickly.

However for system administrators it's a nightmare. (BTW.. You are a "system administrator" if you run your own home PC...) Some Java applets are heavily dependent on Java VM version. Oh, you have two apps that require two different versions of the Java VM? Good luck getting them to play well together, or passing a security audit when they see you have Java 5 hanging around. Lets not even talk about all the "Security Updates" Java has been implementing in the latest versions of Java 7. Before a couple of years ago, any Java applet would pretty much run. Now it's so damned locked down that developers have to re-engineer their apps to run with later Java 7 versions or the end user just has to enable a security exception, which completely defeats the purpose of all these "Security enhancements".

Either way, end users are the ones that end up paying either in security holes, or apps that take so much damned effort to run and keep running after Java updates that unless it's absolutely essential people just give up.

The native Windows app is awesome. Lets keep it that way.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
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Location
Newark, OH
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You simply implement the timing dependent stuff in the dongle, and walk away from the problem. Granted, not at the same level, but this is what the better OBD tools do - comm and timing are buffered by the dongle hardware.

You can also embed the JVM you need in your deliverable, and also avoid the problem (at least in regard to Java).

- Tim
Ross-Tech implemented the timing dependent stuff in the dongle, and then used HTTP as the transport, and JavaScript as the client side code. ;)
 

tadawson

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I have been referring to cross platform porting of VCDS - I have pretty much zero interest in this wireless implementation . . .

- Tim
 

tadawson

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Location
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Thank GOD R-T never went the Java way. Let me say it again.. Thank you.

Java is such a nightmare to administer and keep secure. Sure, for developers it's a lay down - you can program in C/C++? You can probably adapt to Java fairly quickly.

However for system administrators it's a nightmare. (BTW.. You are a "system administrator" if you run your own home PC...) Some Java applets are heavily dependent on Java VM version. Oh, you have two apps that require two different versions of the Java VM? Good luck getting them to play well together, or passing a security audit when they see you have Java 5 hanging around. Lets not even talk about all the "Security Updates" Java has been implementing in the latest versions of Java 7. Before a couple of years ago, any Java applet would pretty much run. Now it's so damned locked down that developers have to re-engineer their apps to run with later Java 7 versions or the end user just has to enable a security exception, which completely defeats the purpose of all these "Security enhancements".

Either way, end users are the ones that end up paying either in security holes, or apps that take so much damned effort to run and keep running after Java updates that unless it's absolutely essential people just give up.

The native Windows app is awesome. Lets keep it that way.
I'm not advocating Java, but I do find it hysterical that you bring up security on a stand alone app . . . It's not like Java sucks malware out of thin air.

And I too favor a native app - just not 'Crippled by WinBlows' (to clarify a Redmond soundbyte) and hence the discussion on ways to have one codebase and diverse platform support.

- Tim
 

bhtooefr

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However, it's a pain to keep the standalone app running without messing with Java security settings (sometimes on a global level), reducing security for the rest of the system.

Which means for security reasons that you might as well stick it in a VM.

So, you might as well just make that a Windows VM.
 

JSWTDI09

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Las Vegas, Nevada
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2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
where are the reviews? few people mentioned they ordered already...let's hear the scoop
There re a few reviews on the Vortex. I think that everyone here is waiting for FedEx to deliver their units. More reviews should start coming in next week.

Have Fun!

Don
 

tadawson

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However, it's a pain to keep the standalone app running without messing with Java security settings (sometimes on a global level), reducing security for the rest of the system.

Which means for security reasons that you might as well stick it in a VM.

So, you might as well just make that a Windows VM.
A service laptop that rarely connects to the internet requires no such nonsense . . .
And why cripple even a VM with WhinDuhs? Do you hate your computer that much? :confused::D

- Tim
 

JSWTDI09

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And why cripple even a VM with WhinDuhs? Do you hate your computer that much? :confused::D
I am not a big Windows fan. However, I must concede that, like it or not, it is the standard business platform unless you are in the the graphics arts business and it is really not as bad as you seem to believe. It powers about 90% of all desktop and laptop personal computers and probably half of all tablets. Do I hate my computer(s)? No, not nearly as much as you appear to hate Windows. This thread is about Ross-Tech's new HEX-NET product and VCDS-Mobile, it is not to debate the strengths of one operating system over another or the ease or difficulty in porting programs to multiple platforms. Ross-Tech went out of their way to create a truly platform independent product. Could it have been done other ways - probably, but that is not the way they chose to go - for many reasons. It is what it is, they are not going to change it to suit you.

If you like it, buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It is really that simple. If you think that figuring out all of VW's proprietary communications protocols and timing requirements is easy (this took RT years to do), feel free to do it another way and try to compete with Ross-Tech. We will eagerly await your "superior" product.

Have Fun!

Don
 
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