VA Consumer Protection - Need Advise

coolbreeze

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As some know I have replaced my TDI on 12/31/16, with a 2014 Jetta GLI. I flew into VA and was picked up by the dealer. When I got home I put it up on a lift to check the exhaust because it didn't sound right.

The previous owner had straight piped back from the cat and removed the resonator and the muffler. The car was state inspected in December by the dealer so I was at a loss for how it could have passed. I researched and found out that in VA a car can pass inspection without a muffler but could not be operated on any VA roads.(?)

I also looked into consumer protection laws, and it seems that a used car sale can be cancelled within 30 days of purchase if the car has an illegal exhaust system.

My question to the forum is where do I stand? What actions can I take, and what advise do you have?

Thanks
Bruce
 

grawk

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cheapest solution would be buying a used resonator and muffler, and putting it on, unless you're willing to spend the time and money to sue the dealer (assuming just asking them doesn't get it done)
 

Jimbo70

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Location
New Milford, CT
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VW free for the first time in 24 years
As some know I have replaced my TDI on 12/31/16, with a 2014 Jetta GLI. I flew into VA and was picked up by the dealer. When I got home I put it up on a lift to check the exhaust because it didn't sound right.

The previous owner had straight piped back from the cat and removed the resonator and the muffler. The car was state inspected in December by the dealer so I was at a loss for how it could have passed. I researched and found out that in VA a car can pass inspection without a muffler but could not be operated on any VA roads.(?)

I also looked into consumer protection laws, and it seems that a used car sale can be cancelled within 30 days of purchase if the car has an illegal exhaust system.

My question to the forum is where do I stand? What actions can I take, and what advise do you have?

Thanks
Bruce
Have you contacted the dealer you purchased the car from?
 

coolbreeze

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Have you contacted the dealer you purchased the car from?
Yes. Sent a video of the vehicle on a lift to show the existing exhaust that they sold the vehicle with. Also a Meineke report on the exhaust condition and a estimate of repair.

The salesman has been proactive in keeping in touch. The GM has been avoiding responding to the issue.
 

GyroRon

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Location
Fort Mill SC
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2013 Jetta tdi
Why bother messing with it? I recently installed a hitch on my camry and removed the muffler as part of that install, I decided to drive the car around the block minus the muffler and it wasn't much louder than stock. Your car will probably get better MPG and power with the straight exhaust. As long as it isn't too loud, Id be happy with it.
 

RegensNoMas

Member
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Virginia
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2011 Golf TDI (sold)
Virginia Attorney General has a Consumer Protection section on the website where you can file a complaint.
 

jetlagmech

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2010 jetta
The GM is probably stalling to get you past the 30 day return law. need to decide quick what you want to do.
 

scooperhsd

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Coolbreeze - if you WANT them to replace them, be nice about, but if they won't, take it to a muffler shop and they will get you taken care.

OTOH - since you live in NC - you ARE aware that automotive diesels don't have to pass any emissions tests ? I myself have a 3 inch straightpipe (capped off by a resonator) from the outlet of my turbocharger and I've never had a problem with inspections in NC.

Edit - I thought you were still talkng about a TDI - sorry. The advice about taking it to a muffler shop still applies, however.
 
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coolbreeze

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Thanks everybody for your help. I've been busting my butt all day today and just got a chance to take a look at this thread. Appreciate all the feedback.

I have been cordial with the them. Being professional and making sure they understand that I understand the situation that I'm in and that they are in. I think it's time to step it up a notch and let him know that I understand the consumer rights and protections in VA.
 

RegensNoMas

Member
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Nov 30, 2016
Location
Virginia
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2011 Golf TDI (sold)
I researched and found out that in VA a car can pass inspection without a muffler but could not be operated on any VA roads.(?)
From the Virginia state inspection handbook:

"NOTE: If a vehicle is inspected that does not have a muffler, the inspector should explain to the customer that although the vehicle will pass inspection without a muffler, it is a violation of state law for the vehicle to be operated on the highway without it."

Applicable law excerpt:

§ 46.2-1049. Exhaust system in good working order.

No person shall drive and no owner of a vehicle shall permit or allow the operation of any such vehicle on a highway unless it is equipped with an exhaust system in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual levels of noise; provided however, that for motor vehicles, such exhaust system shall be of a type installed as standard factory equipment, or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment. An exhaust system shall not be deemed to prevent excessive or unusual noise if it permits the escape of noise in excess of that permitted by the standard factory equipment exhaust system of private passenger motor vehicles or trucks of standard make.
 

coolbreeze

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From the Virginia state inspection handbook:
"NOTE: If a vehicle is inspected that does not have a muffler, the inspector should explain to the customer that although the vehicle will pass inspection without a muffler, it is a violation of state law for the vehicle to be operated on the highway without it."
Applicable law excerpt:
§ 46.2-1049. Exhaust system in good working order.
No person shall drive and no owner of a vehicle shall permit or allow the operation of any such vehicle on a highway unless it is equipped with an exhaust system in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual levels of noise; provided however, that for motor vehicles, such exhaust system shall be of a type installed as standard factory equipment, or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment. An exhaust system shall not be deemed to prevent excessive or unusual noise if it permits the escape of noise in excess of that permitted by the standard factory equipment exhaust system of private passenger motor vehicles or trucks of standard make.
Thanks for taking the time to research and post NoMas. This confirms my position.
I went ahead and filed with the VA Attorney General - Consumer Protection, and BBB this morning.
 

ezshift5

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This is but one example of why I really value this site.


ez
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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Oklahoma
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Thanks for taking the time to research and post NoMas. This confirms my position.
I went ahead and filed with the VA Attorney General - Consumer Protection, and BBB this morning.
Good for you,

Best of luck

Personally HATE cars with less than 100 % quiet ORIGINAL operation noise level
 

coolbreeze

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This is but one example of why I really value this site.


ez
ez, you are right. Even though I am back in a gasser and most likely electric down the road, this will always be my site of choice.

As an example I posted this exact thread on Vortex in the "Lounge" and in the Jetta VI sub forum and basically had little to no help.

Over the years, this site has been filled with knowledgeable, informed and helpful people. I almost always get the help I need, along with deepening my understanding of diesels, VW's and sometimes even about goats in Sportwagens.
 

coolbreeze

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what dealer in VA, ????
otto, I am going to hold off for a little while on naming the dealer, to see if they make things right.

The salesman I worked with was great, and still always answers my texts and emails. As you know I am in the business and I appreciate his professional work.

The GM just might need a little pressure to do the right thing. If he does I don't want to post any disparaging remarks.

If he fails to do the right thing I will surely post the dealerships name here and on Vortex.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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otto, I am going to hold off for a little while on naming the dealer, to see if they make things right.
The salesman I worked with was great, and still always answers my texts and emails. As you know I am in the business and I appreciate his professional work.
The GM just might need a little pressure to do the right thing. If he does I don't want to post any disparaging remarks.
If he fails to do the right thing I will surely post the dealerships name here and on Vortex.
Wise to hold off, until he messes up.

Nice thing about "MEDIA" is ~~ it works :D
 

coolbreeze

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Good for you,
Best of luck
Personally HATE cars with less than 100 % quiet ORIGINAL operation noise level
Thanks. I appreciate the post. As far as the noise goes though I am good with some nice exhaust notes when I am pushing it, but the drone you get without the muffler or resonator drives me nuts. In fact when I am over 2800 rpm's the plastic pieces on my passenger door vibrate and buzz.
 

Dr Chill

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South Florida
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Drive the car back to dealership or have it towed there and cancel the purchase. I'd be willing to bet the ECU has been modded too. I wouldn't want it to be TD1 upon your first service assuming it's still under warranty.
 

coolbreeze

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Drive the car back to dealership or have it towed there and cancel the purchase. I'd be willing to bet the ECU has been modded too. I wouldn't want it to be TD1 upon your first service assuming it's still under warranty.
The dealership is 450 plus miles away. I'll let them worry about that if it comes to that.

The ecu is stock now at least. I have had several 2.0T APR stage 1 tuned cars. This one drives like a 207hp car, not 257hp.
 

740GLE

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Is this a CPO car or sold as is?
 

coolbreeze

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Troutman NC
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I'd just spend $200 and put a muffler on it...

-J
To put a proper system in it will be over 900 dollars. I can get a cheap inline muffler welded in for 300. Not doing that on a car that is 20,000.

The best priced system I can find is a Billy Boat for 717 on sale. It is 200 to install.
 

atomicfront

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baltimore
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2013 VW Jetta wagon tdi
To put a proper system in it will be over 900 dollars. I can get a cheap inline muffler welded in for 300. Not doing that on a car that is 20,000.
The best priced system I can find is a Billy Boat for 717 on sale. It is 200 to install.
What you paid 20k for a 3 year old car you can get one for 26k new? Just return the car.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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Thanks. I appreciate the post. As far as the noise goes though I am good with some nice exhaust notes when I am pushing it, but the drone you get without the muffler or resonator drives me nuts. In fact when I am over 2800 rpm's the plastic pieces on my passenger door vibrate and buzz.


Nice
is good/fine by me.

It only gets to me when a "fast mover" pasts me at really extreme speeds with overwhelming noise levels on turnpikes or inter city 6-8 lanes
Decibel levels going from low to horrific can be annoying :mad::mad::mad::mad:

BTW ~~ any rattles in my car is a good reason to FIX or SELL the damn thing
 

compu_85

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Location
Springfield VA
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... None :S
You bought a used car, as is. Did you inspect it before signing on the line?

A thrush muffler wouldn't be very expensive, and the quality is good.

-J
 

VeeDubTDI

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What does this thread have to do with Dieselgate? Moving to General Automotive.
 

coolbreeze

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What you paid 20k for a 3 year old car you can get one for 26k new? Just return the car.
2014 - 2.0T GLI Autobahn w/ Nav. Edition 30
6-speed Manual 162FN2 162FM2 $28,855
18” Motorsport Black Alloy Wheels - $1,600
Lip Spoiler $ 375
Destination Charge $820
Processing Fee $589
Title and Registration $130
Subtotal $32,369
Sales Tax 3% $913
Total at full MSRP $33282.65
Lets say you could buy this car today, which you can't, you might see 2 to 3k off. They don't produce many and they focus discounts on Jetta's and GTI's, so you might get out the door all in just under 30,000.
2017 is decont'ed compared to a 14 E30 with Nav. No adaptive Bi Xenon's in particular.
I paid 18,803 out the door, so just under 19k. Only has 25k miles. I wouldn't drive the 17 GLI just because the only light option is halogens and I drive country roads. I need great light.
It was this vehicle because it had all the options I wanted and the only other car that met all my wants was a 2017 GTI SE. So huge price difference. You might get one of those for 29k out the door.
 
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