using ramps for oil change observation

[Victor-Whiskey]

I did my first oil change yesterday (7850 mi). I put it on ramps to do get underneath. I noticed that with the car tilted back on the ramps, it appeared there was a portion of the oil pan that doesn't drain. I have a rotating flexible tube camera used for airframe inspections. So, because I am a nerdy engineer type, and to check this and the oil pan, I inserted in the oil drain after it stopped dripping. On either side of the drain plug was ~1/8-1/4 qts of oil. My suspicions were correct. I used a hand pump siphon to get it out. I believe it would drain completely if level. This could also account for those who posted they needed slightly less oil during changes.
Just keep this in mind if using ramps for oil changes.

 

[ashutoshsm]

Great observation!

When I'm through with the dealer oil changes (just did the first at 0K miles in under 4 months of ownership), I was planning to do my own with the ramps I own. I guess a siphon would be needed, then!

ALso, can you comment on whether having the car flat when draining would drin more of that residual oil, based on the shape/design? I'm wondering whether (or not) this explains why my 'new' dealer oil looks so sooty black already

 

[ruking]

UPSHOT: don't worry, be happy

I have used an oil evacuation device since the car was new (aka first oil change @ 5,000 miles,) Some folks have shown that properly done, there are little differences between top side evacuation and (underside- gravity) conventiional oil drain plug removal. The thing I like: it takes almost all of 5 mins to evacuate (hose inserted in the dipstick tube) and recharge the system with 4.2 L/ 4.5 qts of new oil. The rest and majority of the oil change is spent on ancillary stuff, i.e. clean the various messes, garbage dumping, recycling, other obsessions. In addition, I do NOT have to lift and use jackstands in topside evacuation and/or ramps.

Somewhere along the MY line, the first oil change went to 10,000 miles. I did my 09 TDI @ 12,200 miles.

Regardless, logical as the concept and subsequent attempt to get out ALL the crankcase oil might be: just a shop manual reference between the dry sump specifications and oil change specifications will show you that getting ALL the oil out is impossible, unless one is willing to get the system back to dry sump. (example, disassembly and total oil removal, then onto refill)

 

[Victor-Whiskey]

It's normal for the oil to get dark quickly in the TDI.

There are a few things the dealer probably rarely, if ever, does that would leave old oild behind:
- thoroughly clean out oil filter housing of old oil
- let oil pan completely drip drain
also:
- several cases on forums where the dealer neglected to use 507
I am a little OCD, so I also pour 1/2 qt in with the drain plug off to "flush." It usually pushes out a meaningful amount of used oil.

 

[Victor-Whiskey]

I have used an oil evacuation device since the car was new (aka first oil change @ 5,000 miles,) Some folks have shown that properly done there is little difference between top side evacuation and (gravity) conventiional oil drain plug removal. The thing I like is it takes almost all of 5 mins to evacuate and recharge the system with 4.2 L 4.5 qts of new oil. The rest of the oil change is spent on ancillary stuff, ie clean the mess you may have made, garbage dumpin, recycling, other obsessions.

Somewhere along the line, the first oil change went to 10,000 miles. I did my 09 TDI @ 12,200 miles.

UPSHOT: don't worry, be happy

Regardless however logical the concept and subsequent attempt to get out ALL the crankcase oil might be: just a shop manual reference between the dry sump specifications and oil change specifications will show you that getting ALL the oil out is impossible unless one is willing to get the system back to dry sump. (example disassembly and total oil removal then onto refill)

I read about that a few months ago and already plan to try the pump evacuation method next oil change, sounds like a great method.

 

[JSWTDI09]

Regardless however logical the concept and subsequent attempt to get out ALL the crankcase oil might be: just a shop manual reference between the dry sump specifications and oil change specifications will show you that getting ALL the oil out is impossible unless one is willing to get the system back to dry sump. (example disassembly and total oil removal then onto refill)

Like ruking says - you will never get all of the oil out of an engine without tearing it apart. Since the oil drain plug is at the back of the oil pan, my guess is that you would actually get more oil out on ramps than you would with the car level (I have not tested this theory). Don't worry to much and don't over think it - it will just make your brain hurt. A headache does not make you car work any better.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[Victor-Whiskey]

Like ruking says - you will never get all of the oil out of an engine without tearing it apart. Since the oil drain plug is at the back of the oil pan, my guess is that you would actually get more oil out on ramps than you would with the car level (I have not tested this theory). Don't worry to much and don't over think it - it will just make your brain hurt. A headache does not make you car work any better.
Have Fun!
Don

I agree. I just think of it as a hobby

 

[NickBeek]

Along similar lines. I just had my 10k mile service performed by my dealer. I am comfortable that they used the right oil, it is just the amount that concerns me. The factory fill was up to the top groove on the dipstick and did not go up or down any over 10k miles. When I got home from getting the service done I checked my oil level and it was in the middle of the cross hatch area on the dipstick. I know that is the "safe zone", but shouldn't an oil change leave you with a "full" crankcase?

 

[ruking]

Along similar lines. I just had my 10k mile service performed by my dealer. I am comfortable that they used the right oil, it is just the amount that concerns me. The factory fill was up to the top groove on the dipstick and did not go up or down any over 10k miles. When I got home from getting the service done I checked my oil level and it was in the middle of the cross hatch area on the dipstick. I know that is the "safe zone", but shouldn't an oil change leave you with a "full" crankcase?

For some reason, this sort of topic/issue remains probably one of the most hashed out. Some folks kind of glaze over and point to the "SEARCH" feature for one to look at literally THOUSANDS of post to hundreds of threads on this issue. So along the lines of "don't worry be happy": the TDI engine has VARIANCE and VARIANCES.

Probably more importantly, the TDI engine is made to run with a variance AND variances in oil levels.

UPSHOT: Specifically that is app 1 qt over to 1 qt under (for a 2 quart delta) .

Having said that, I personally like to be within the hash marks (in the middle of min/max). However for a host of reasons (mostly opaque to US), VW remains content to give DIRE written warnings (VW oem owners manual to technical data, aka shop manuals, etc) that normally scare the crap out of some to most owners. I can get into a discussion if you'd like.

 

[nate379]

Getting the last drip of oil out is not important.

If you use a good quality oil/filter I would bet that on most vehicles just changing the oil filter and replenishing what is lost from the filter would be enough of an oil change.

That is all I do on my truck and I have put close to 40,000 miles without draining. Analysis comes back great, in fact slightly better than my Jetta with 15k on the oil.

Now keep in mind though that the little TDI holds what 5 qts? It's not a huge deal to dump $25 of oil in for a change. My truck holds 14-15qts, so looking at $90 of oil.

 

[MyAvocation]

I prefer 4 stands over ramps. Since I drive mostly highway, tires are rotated as part of the 10K OCI. Ramps are great if in a hurry.

 

[bit_bucket]

I have been utilizing the evacuation pump method from top side since my other VW TDI (06 Golf TDI) was new. I am at 175k and have never had a problem with this method. It is really convenient, plus as an added bonus you can suck out every last drop of oil from the oil filter housing, cooler. For my JSW, once I am done with the dealer service intervals, I will be doing the same.

 

[ruking]

I have been utilizing the evacuation pump method from top side since my other VW TDI (06 Golf TDI) was new. I am at 175k and have never had a problem with this method. It is really convenient, plus as an added bonus you can suck out every last drop of oil from the oil filter housing, cooler. For my JSW, once I am done with the dealer service intervals, I will be doing the same.

This might be off topic, but this also unhooks the so called 10,000 miles intervals and in effects puts maintenance on ala carte status. In other words if one only wants an oil change, why do you want a 10,000 miles maintenance interval from say a dealer when one can do most of it DIY vice versa also? The real benefit is it gives one almost total control and flexibility.

So for example, I do 20,000, 25,000, 30,000 miles oil change intervals. I happen to DIY, but if I wanted the dealer to do it I would ask only for a OCI.

 

[halfast3]

Use 4 ramps?

 

[Dariof]

I read about that a few months ago and already plan to try the pump evacuation method next oil change, sounds like a great method.

Good call! I also use this type of system, and will never go back to removing a drain plug from the pan.

 

[Boner]

So which Brand and model of evacuation pumps do people use and have good luck with?

 

[JSWTDI09]

So which Brand and model of evacuation pumps do people use and have good luck with?

I chose this one:

http://www.dieselgeek.com/servlet/Detail?no=303

Also available from other sources as well, but it was easier for me to order it at the same time as my Panzer plate.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[Dariof]

I chose this one:

http://www.dieselgeek.com/servlet/Detail?no=303

Also available from other sources as well, but it was easier for me to order it at the same time as my Panzer plate.

Have Fun!

Don

That's the same one I use as well. I even drain my lawn mower engine with it.

These evacuation pumps will work an any motor that does not have a dry sump......for dry sumps, you still have to remove the drain plug.