Using Peugeot HDI 2.0 injector on an ALH?

Nico3d3

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I heard some interesting facts regarding the HDI 2.0 engine from Peugeot. This common rail diesel engine is on the market since a long time ago and they used the EDC15 ECU for a while too. I was wondering what would it need to transplant the common rail injection system onto an ALH engine? I figured we would need to add a low pressure in-tank lift pump (similar to what we have on a PD engine) and then, we would also need the high pressure pump they are using on the Peugeot engine. Maybe it would be easier to just use the whole Peugeot engine and swap it into a VW?
 

hvacr9e

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ya...then when you have trouble with it you can the go to "peugeotclub.com"and hash over your issues with the other 3 members!!:p
 

GoFaster

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You are going to get into a WHOLE heap of aggravation about how to control the engine. Sure, it may share the EDC15 architecture of the ECU, but all the inputs and outputs are different, which means the wiring harness is not compatible.

A common-rail 4-cylinder engine requires 4 synchronized outputs (one per injector) plus the rail pressure is ordinarily under ECU control also and there is input/output (like a servo control) associated with that. The rotary-pump engines have no outputs synchronized with engine speed but have servo-control of the quantity adjuster and timing adjuster and have inputs synchronized with engine speed (needle lift sensor). They are two such completely different animals that I can't see a swap being anything but major aggravation.

If you want a common-rail engine in a VW, the best, most reliable, and proven approach is to sell your older one and buy a new one which has a common-rail engine already installed and ready to go.
 

DPM

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Well...
Assuming you're thinking about the early 8v engines (RHZ code and such), the CR-pump will bolt straight in in place of the VE. You need a supply pump, yes, 15psi or so to activate the input of the CR pump.

Injectors would be more hassle. Whilst the bodies might be the same diameter, you'd need to install nozzles with spray angles that'll suit the VW. But then, you gotta find somewhere to attach the rail, and get pipes to and from it.

Control-wise, you'll need a cam sensor that the TDI doesn't have, plus rail pressure sensing and pressure-control outputs. Other than Immo issues it's probably best to transplant a complete PSA engineloom and ECU...

Your PSA engine transplant option has merit too tho- bear in mind that Volvo are using the DSG mated to one of the PSA/Ford collaboration engines!
 

ryanp

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Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
why not buy a 16v CR, better head and already VW??
 

turbo johan

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Feb 19, 2006
No one wants swap a HDI into a VAG car!
VAG VP and PD have way higher injection pressure so what's the advance with a old CR system.
And the crappy HDI gearbox is really fun, try a bit of torque and end up in big pile of garbage metal...
You can do a lot with a ALH, and if you want something more modern take a PD or a new CR VAG engine.

Johan
 

Lord_Verminaard

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Columbus, OH
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2005 NB TDI
I've looked into this as well.

The HDI rail spacing is very close to the ALH injector spacing- if that won't work I'm sure some custom short high-pressure lines from the rail to injector can be made.

Like DPM said, the CP3 pump has the same bolt pattern. You'd need a smaller pulley, as I think the CP3 needs to turn about 1:1 with engine rotation to provide sufficient pressure. The HDI pulley might work but then you'd need to shorten the timing belt.

Control: here comes the expensive part. As of right now, there are two standalone Common-rail management systems on the market that I know of- Bosch Motorsports has one, the cheapest variant is around $3500 the last time I looked. The other is an independent tuner in the UK, and I think the price was around $1800. Adapting a Cam sensor and other electrical bits is the easy part. Both systems come with high-voltage drivers to run the injectors as well. In my opinion, it's only a matter of time before a DIY solution shows up, if these standalone boxes end up in the hands of some clever coders, the routines and algorithms needed will start showing up and pretty soon people will start building their own.

I don't think any of this is out of the hands of semi-skilled individuals, but the cost involved, mainly with the ECU, is sorta prohibitive right now.

The main advantage I can see with Common-rail is much better and more controlled fueling at higher RPM's than the VE pump can realistically handle.

Brendan
 

Nico3d3

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The only reason why I was thinking it could be a cool project was because I thought we could get better fuel injection control and higher pressure by converting to CR. Is there a big difference between the fuel pressure allowed by a VE pump and the Peugeot pump? And no, I don't want to buy a 2009 CR-TDI because of all the crap they added for anti-pollution.
 

DPM

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CR pump (obviously depending on drive ratio) is capable of 1500bar or so at ANY engine speed. Infact, the standard ECU inhibits injection until rail pressure exceeds 200bar...
 

Rub87

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Belgium
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Ibiza '99 90HP
if the nozzles are compatible with head angle and bowl it's quite easy, adapt sensors of choice of a edc15 ecu of your choice..

and run it..

I heard rumors that megasquirt was doing something towards commonrail also.. which would cost a fraction of the commercial units now available
 

Diesel_Benz

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Jan 10, 2004
Location
Denver, Colorado
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Mercedes
CR conversion is not physically impossible, just far from economically possible. By the time you've bought all the parts, spend many hours attempting to get things to work, you could have bought an original CR engine and just done an engine swap.
 
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