Using oil, not sure why. replaced clogged particulate filter... Also filter "delete"?

[Brynildsen]

Hi all,

I am pretty new to TDIs (owned my beloved 2011 6 spd Golf TDI since 39k miles, now have 96k.

I don't have a solid handle on how much oil it's consuming but am beginning to keep track. I had to have the particulate filter replaced in Sept. Dealer told me to sell the car. It was covered under warranty but that ran out about a month later. He said that they see cars coming in over and over every several months with a clogged particulate filter.

A friend mentioned that these motors are notorious for oil 'blowing by' valves. Since I don't see an oily mess in the engine compartment and nothing dripping out the bottom, I wonder if it isn't this blow by issue.

Further, I wonder how fast one might expect such a problem to increase, or whether it might stay steady.

Dealer service rep also mentioned the particulate filter deletion trick. I'm in NJ and thanks to Trump I think it was, they no longer do the wand emissions check. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that route but wouldn't mind learning more about it, all the same.

FUN FACT: Some jack ass filled me up with gasoline once. I drove maybe 3/4 mile and turned it off once I realized something was wrong. Required an entirely new fuel delivery system.

If you're still reading, thank you and thanks in advance for any insights.

 

[Lightflyer1]

First your dealer is a schmuck. Find another if you can. Second you may still have warranty. Check here.

VW Emissions Modification Lookup

www.vwdieselinfo.com

Generally if you aren't short tripping them where the regens can't complete, they do okay. Lots of reading here to know about these cars.

 

[Brynildsen]

Thanks for response and link. I was driving 60 highway miles twice a day until pandemic and have mostly short tripped since. I’ve heard of this regen process but have yet to discover the exact requirements of time and speed. Perhaps in manual. I think i will have to start commuting again atleast once a week at some point.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

Thanks for response and link. I was driving 60 highway miles twice a day until pandemic and have mostly short tripped since. I’ve heard of this regen process but have yet to discover the exact requirements of time and speed. Perhaps in manual. I think i will have to start commuting again atleast once a week at some point.

Get a gauge or an obd bluetooth tool to monitor the amount of soot so you won't interrupt the regen process.

A cheap elm327 bluetooth dongle and vagdpf is the cheapest option.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Yes. The tool will allow you to see/monitor the process. Android only for VAGDPF. Looks like this.

I have an old android phone I use just for this. VCDS as well for other things. When soot mass gets about 24 it will start a regen. It will run until it gets down in the single digits usually when let run to completion, from my experience. About 10 minutes to complete at speed. If one starts I jut go up the Interstate 5 minutes then return. If you know when they are about to happen you can plan around them mostly. A healthy emissions system will more than likely last longer and do better than the driver not being aware at all of its workings and status. Information is power. They usually happen about every 200+ miles normally, maybe more often if short tripping. There are more than one set of criteria for determining when one is needed. Use the trial version first to ensure it works for you before paying the small fee for the open app. I have no connection to the app in any way, just like it.

 

[Brynildsen]

Holy crap. This is amazing. Thanks guys. I have an old droid i can use. You’re talking a bit over my head but will look into it.

i have another thing starting to happen that i might as well mention. Recently, and with increasing frequency, i am experiencing brief hesitation in power. Like a short cough/hiccup. I can feel it in the pedal and maybe even subtly in forward thrust. Intermittent.

 

[Lightflyer1]

VCDS to check for codes. An invaluable tool for these cars.

Ross-Tech: Bentley CD Order Form

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Dealer service rep also mentioned the particulate filter deletion trick. I'm in NJ and thanks to Trump I think it was, they no longer do the wand emissions check. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that route but wouldn't mind learning more about it, all the same.

Hi there, fellow Hunterdon County TDIer here.

Wanted to comment on the above thing - the "wand emissions" check you mention never applied to your TDI.

Your car is "tested for emissions" by the inspector hooking up a code reader to the diagnostic port under the dashboard and scanning for emissions-related fault codes. This is only possible for 1996 and newer models.

Anything 1995 and older, the only way to test emissions is to insert a sampling probe (the "wand") into the tailpipe with the engine running. The wand is actually hollow, and is connected by hose/tube back to the machine. The machine literally "breathes" the exhaust, and does a chemical analysis on it to determine the composition. An emissions result on something that old will show things including "CO ppm", "HC ppm" and "NOX ppm", and there are limits on how high those measurements can go. (With your car, you just get "PASS" or "FAIL")

You can read the official announcement at https://www.nj.gov/mvc/inspection/tailpipe.htm, but my feeling is that the state simply looked at the number of vehicles still on the roads that were old enough to require the wand test, subtracted off anything registered antique/street rod/collectible (already exempt), and realized that since the resulting number was a very small portion of the total vehicles on the road (and getting smaller with every passing year), the cost of continuing to maintain the equipment to test far outweighed any environmental benefits of continuing to test them every other year.

When you open the link above, you'll see that this took effect on May 1, 2016 - the last year of the Obama Administration. Nothing whatsoever to do with Trump, he was only a candidate at that point.

As to the particulate filter delete, that's emissions device tampering and illegal (and as such, not condoned/endorsed by TDIClub). Agree wholeheartedly with Lightflyer1's opinion on your Dealer (and on VCDS's "invaluable" status for these cars).

Taking the car for a nice long drive now and again to cause/complete a regen, and monitoring with the app/dongle recommended above should keep the filter happy.


Rob

 

[Mongler98]

they can be flushed / cleaned for about $150 to $200... they dont really go bad but they get replaced because of stupid warranty and insurance reasons.
why your car is useing up oil... might be the turbo... might be a worn out piston rings... we cant know untill someone who actually can be called competent looks at your car.. take it to one of our trusted TDI gurus. ditch this BS stealership.

 

[TurboABA]

Please obtain a tool or find someone with one so that you can actually see data and values instead of guessing or relying on clown shoe wearing dealers\friends\enthusiasts making claims without proper diagnostics.

First and foremost, I'm not clear on what you're really asking about..... is it oil consumption or DPF loading, or both?
Oil consumption is known to be an issue on most of these, and is clearly defined in your owner's manual.
DPF loading can be checked and addressed with VCDS, or at least checked with other monitors as per above advice.
If you don't have any warning lights active on your dash, your DPF is fine. If you do, and you are still in warranty, take it to the dealer and have them fix it at no cost to you.

With a DPF that's only 6 months old, you should have zero issues. No need to worry about deletes, cleaning, or anything other service.
At the very most, it might be full of soot, but if that's the case, you'd have indicators lit up on your cluster.

 

[Brynildsen]

Hi there, fellow Hunterdon County TDIer here.

Wanted to comment on the above thing - the "wand emissions" check you mention never applied to your TDI.

Your car is "tested for emissions" by the inspector hooking up a code reader to the diagnostic port under the dashboard and scanning for emissions-related fault codes. This is only possible for 1996 and newer models.

Anything 1995 and older, the only way to test emissions is to insert a sampling probe (the "wand") into the tailpipe with the engine running. The wand is actually hollow, and is connected by hose/tube back to the machine. The machine literally "breathes" the exhaust, and does a chemical analysis on it to determine the composition. An emissions result on something that old will show things including "CO ppm", "HC ppm" and "NOX ppm", and there are limits on how high those measurements can go. (With your car, you just get "PASS" or "FAIL")

You can read the official announcement at https://www.nj.gov/mvc/inspection/tailpipe.htm, but my feeling is that the state simply looked at the number of vehicles still on the roads that were old enough to require the wand test, subtracted off anything registered antique/street rod/collectible (already exempt), and realized that since the resulting number was a very small portion of the total vehicles on the road (and getting smaller with every passing year), the cost of continuing to maintain the equipment to test far outweighed any environmental benefits of continuing to test them every other year.

When you open the link above, you'll see that this took effect on May 1, 2016 - the last year of the Obama Administration. Nothing whatsoever to do with Trump, he was only a candidate at that point.

As to the particulate filter delete, that's emissions device tampering and illegal (and as such, not condoned/endorsed by TDIClub). Agree wholeheartedly with Lightflyer1's opinion on your Dealer (and on VCDS's "invaluable" status for these cars).

Taking the car for a nice long drive now and again to cause/complete a regen, and monitoring with the app/dongle recommended above should keep the filter happy.


Rob

Thanks for the thorough reply. I have started looking at the dongle/app and am not certain which one to get. I think I've got a handle on oil consumption now. About a quart per 2,400-2,500 miles (I'm closing in on 100k). I feared worse. What you guys are teaching me gives me hope to try this dongle thingy. I was wondering how to know when this regen process happens. At some point I will be driving it an hour twice a day at least once a week, up to 4 or 5 days depending what my boss says. It has been short tripped 99% of the time since march 2020. Anyway, do you have a recommendation for specific dongle/app? I do have an old android (with a tired battery) but am back to iPhone. If there is an iPhone version, that would help.

Do you do your own work or have a Hunterdon region mechanic rec? I mainly use dealer, I must admit. I'm handy in many ways but cars are not one of those ways.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Whatever app you choose will be specific to itself on what and how it is displayed and works. As you can see from above it shows a regen starting and the dpf will turn red on the display as it heats up.

The best dongle to get is this one.

OBDLink MX Bluetooth Scan Tool

OBDLink MX Bluetooth is the fastest Bluetooth OBDII scan tool for Android & Windows with support for SW-CAN & MS-CAN. Includes the free OBDLink app for Android.

www.scantool.net

But really cheap ones can be had for $5 or so too. I have had trouble with most of the ones of that kind I have bought. The scantool one is top notch though. App is on the play store. Nothing I know of for IPhone that I am aware of.

 

[Brynildsen]

Sweet. I'm fine to pay $80 if it's top notch and recommended by a TDI guy. I don't have time for piece of crap tools. Thanks!

 

[Mongler98]

Sweet. I'm fine to pay $80 if it's top notch and recommended by a TDI guy. I don't have time for piece of crap tools. Thanks!

That would be a rosstech cable. Not some amazon dinglydongle. They all do the same thing but that's not what you need. Yes it could work bit it's a tool that's not going to provide you with what vcds can and you will need this vcds vagcom cable reguardless so dont waste $ buying both.

 

[Brynildsen]

Whatever app you choose will be specific to itself on what and how it is displayed and works. As you can see from above it shows a regen starting and the dpf will turn red on the display as it heats up.

The best dongle to get is this one.

OBDLink MX Bluetooth Scan Tool

OBDLink MX Bluetooth is the fastest Bluetooth OBDII scan tool for Android & Windows with support for SW-CAN & MS-CAN. Includes the free OBDLink app for Android.

www.scantool.net

But really cheap ones can be had for $5 or so too. I have had trouble with most of the ones of that kind I have bought. The scantool one is top notch though. App is on the play store. Nothing I know of for IPhone that I am aware of.

OK, quick follow up: It appears that this particular one is not being made anymore. There is a link to a new, pricier version. But I do not see where it speaks to the regen. I see a similar version at on that page, bit cheaper. How am I sure a unit has the regen thing?

Also, do you keep these plugged in all the time and scanning with phone? I've heard the regen is generally about every 200 miles?

OBDLink MX+ Professional OBD2 Scanner for iPhone, iPad, Android & Windows

OBDLink MX+ is the world's fastest Bluetooth OBDII scan tool, with native apps for iOS, Android, and PC. Advanced hardware for Ford, Mazda, and GM.

www.scantool.net

OBDLink LX Bluetooth Scan Tool

OBDLink LX Bluetooth will turn your Android or Windows device into a trip computer & real-time performance monitor. Includes the free OBDLink app for Android.

www.scantool.net

 

[Lightflyer1]

That is the dongle only. You will need the app as well. Not their app. The dongle does nothing but let it communicate with the car. VCDS is a great tool but not really easy to use for monitoring a regen. Having the cable connected while driving your car and trying to monitor what is going on is difficult. The app is easy to use and shows exactly what you need for regen monitoring. Any one from Scantool should do you fine. I have both VCDS and the Scantool dongle and app. They each have their place.

 

[Brynildsen]

they can be flushed / cleaned for about $150 to $200... they dont really go bad but they get replaced because of stupid warranty and insurance reasons.
why your car is useing up oil... might be the turbo... might be a worn out piston rings... we cant know untill someone who actually can be called competent looks at your car.. take it to one of our trusted TDI gurus. ditch this BS stealership.

Can you lead me to one of your trusted TDI gurus? I am in northwest Hunterdon County NJ.

 

[TurboABA]

I've heard the regen is generally about every 200 miles?

Do you have an owner's manual? Have you read it?
Don't believe everything you "hear".

 

[Brynildsen]

Thanks again guys. I think I'm getting slightly closer to understanding what you all are saying. I need any decent dongle thing such as anything from the ScanTool site and the Ross-Tech software from this site. https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/VCDS.php

Is that right? Again, I have a 2011 Golf TDI

And to clarify my situation: I just had the DPF replaced under warrantee this fall. Now I want to learn how to monitor as you all instruct. I believe it's using about a quart per 2400-2500 miles.

 

[Lightflyer1]

200 miles is a general estimate but the regens happen based on multiple criteria. The more short tripping you do the sooner the needed regen. Those that drive the highway for vast distances have them less often while those who drive short trips have them more often. Yours will vary based on your driving habits. 200 +/- miles is a general number. This is after emissions fixes have been done.

Nope incorrect. VCDS needs its own software and cable. The app needs the dongle and the app. They are not compatible with each other.

 

[TurboABA]

Here are some extracts to "bring you up to speed" on DPF stuff.

Regeneration
The diesel particulate filter must be cleaned of the particles of carbon soot regularly to prevent it from becoming
blocked and its function thereby being affected. During the regeneration phase, the particulates that have
accumulated in the particulate filter are burnt off (oxidised). With regeneration of the catalytic coated particulate
filter, passive regeneration and active regeneration are separated. There are no signs to the driver that
regeneration is occurring.

Passive regeneration
With passive regeneration, the carbon soot particles are burnt off continually without intervention from the engine
management system. The particulate filter is positioned in close proximity to the engine. This assures that exhaust
gas temperatures of 350-500 °C are reached on motorways, for example. The carbon soot particles are thereby
converted into carbon dioxide by a reaction with nitrogen oxide. This gradual process occurs slowly and continually
through the platinum coating, which works as a catalyst.

Active regeneration
With active regeneration, the carbon soot particles are burnt off through a targeted increase in the exhaust gas
temperature by the engine management system. In urban traffic with low loads on the engine, the exhaust gas
temperatures for passive regeneration of the particulate filter are too low. Since the carbon soot particles cannot
be broken down, deposits build up in the filter. As soon as a certain level of carbon soot deposits is reached in the
filter, active regeneration is initiated by the engine management system. This process lasts for approximately
10 minutes. The carbon soot particles are burnt off to carbon dioxide at an exhaust gas temperature of 600-650 °C.

Diesel particulate filter warning lamp V231
The diesel particulate filter warning lamp can be
found in the dash panel insert. It lights up if the diesel
particulate filter is subject to many short journeys,
thus preventing regeneration.

Task
If the vehicle is driven frequently over short distances, regeneration of the diesel particulate filter can be impaired
because the exhaust gas temperature does not reach the necessary level. Since regeneration cannot take place,
there is a risk of the filter becoming damaged or blocked by carbon soot deposits. In order to avoid this, the diesel
particulate filter warning lamp lights up in the dash panel insert if the carbon soot level reaches a certain threshold.
With this signal, the driver is requested to drive at more than 60km/h at a constant rate for a period of about
15 minutes. The filter can be cleaned most effectively if the vehicle is driven in 4th or 5th gear in a speed range of
approximately 2000 rpm. The warning lamp must go out after this measure.
If the diesel particulate filter warning lamp does not go out after this measure, the preglow period warning
lamp will light up and a message will be displayed in the dash panel insert saying "Engine damage - workshop"
(or words to that effect). This informs the driver that the vehicle must be driven to the next workshop

Frequent short trips
For the regeneration process to be initiated in the diesel particulate filter, the exhaust gas temperature is increased
by the engine management system.
In the event of frequent short trips, the exhaust gas temperature cannot reach a sufficient level. Regeneration
cannot be carried out successfully. Subsequent regeneration procedures that are carried out with excessively high
levels of carbon soot deposit can lead to overheating and damage to the particulate filter. The filter could become
blocked due to a high level of carbon deposit. This blockage in the filter could cause the engine to fail.
In order to prevent these cases from happening, a diesel particulate filter warning lamp will be activated in the
dash panel insert once a specific limit is reached in the filter storage capacity or after a certain number of
unsuccessful regeneration procedures.
The driver is thereby requested to drive the vehicle at increased speed for a short period of time in order that the
required exhaust gas temperature can be reached for purposes of diesel particulate filter regeneration

 

[Mongler98]

Can you lead me to one of your trusted TDI gurus? I am in northwest Hunterdon County NJ.

tdi 101... its a sticky right at the top. cant miss it. "Trusted TDI Mechanics - by state"

 

[TurboABA]

200 miles is a general estimate ......

Nope.... folk tales! Although the frequency of the regens has increased as a result of the AEM fix, the change is not that drastic.

“Kilometre regeneration”
The “kilometre regeneration” is a route-dependent
regeneration of the diesel particulate filter.
The engine control unit automatically initiates active
regeneration if there has been no successful
regeneration or no regeneration at all in the last 750 -
1000 km regardless of the soiling status of the diesel
particulate filter.
The “kilometre regeneration” serves as an additional
safeguard to keep the contamination state of the
diesel particulate filter low.

I personally owned and drove my 2L for all of its 183k miles, both pre & post fix, and I can tell you that I did not ever have regens take place that often. I also never had to get the DPF replaced.

 

[Brynildsen]

Nope.... folk tales! Although the frequency of the regens has increased as a result of the AEM fix, the change is not that drastic.



I personally owned and drove my 2L for all of its 183k miles, both pre & post fix, and I can tell you that I did not ever have regens take place that often. I also never had to get the DPF replaced.

Can someone link me to the software and hardware I need to monitor regen? I believe I need a version of this Ross-Tech VCDS. https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/VCDS.php and any decent 'dongle' such as this OBDLink LX Bluetooth Scan Tool https://www.scantool.net/obdlink-lxbt/

Is this correct? If not, can you link me directly? Sorry so dense.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Ross-Tech: Bentley CD Order Form

For VCDS buy a cable here and download their software for it. Spend some time learning how to use it properly.

For VAGDPF just buy the dongle and download the app from the Google play store. Test the generic version and if it works for you then pay the $5 or so and get the full version. VAGDPF is easier to use just for checking and monitoring the regen status than VCDS, although VCDS is much more extensive in what it can scan and do..

I have driven my cars since 2012 and the regens vary from just below 200 miles to just over 300 when on the highway for long periods.

 

[TurboABA]

@Brynildsen
If you just want to "monitor", you can simply get one of the suggested dongles\apps.
If you want the ability to diagnose/fix/log all sorts of things, you get VCDS.

@Lightflyer1
We need to be careful when throwing the term "regen" around here, especially with the noobs or those of us who aren't very familiar with the different types of regens.

The particulate filter is regenerated in the following steps:
● Passive regeneration
● Heat-up phase
● Active regeneration
● Regeneration drive by customer
● Service regeneration

If you are indeed seeing Active Regens take place ~250 miles, you either have some pending issues (read poor fuel, poor driving routine\use\habits, sticky exhaust flap, reduced EGR function, etc) or some very worn out engines which burn a lot of oil and soot up the DPF at an accelerated rate!
This would be feasible on high milage specimens with unfavorable use patterns, but it is not the norm based on anything I've seen, read about or experienced.

Do you use the correct oil? Do you run Bio? Have you heard from other "locals" who experience this type of frequency?

 

[TurboABA]

Wait a second..... @Lightflyer1
Are we talking apples to apples here or what? You are driving a 2015 which means that's a DEF injected system!
But you made reference to "since 2012", so that could've been a non DEF like the OP has or a DEF injected depending on what model you had....

 

[Brynildsen]

@Brynildsen
If you just want to "monitor", you can simply get one of the suggested dongles\apps.
If you want the ability to diagnose/fix/log all sorts of things, you get VCDS.

@Lightflyer1
We need to be careful when throwing the term "regen" around here, especially with the noobs or those of us who aren't very familiar with the different types of regens.



If you are indeed seeing Active Regens take place ~250 miles, you either have some pending issues (read poor fuel, poor driving routine\use\habits, sticky exhaust flap, reduced EGR function, etc) or some very worn out engines which burn a lot of oil and soot up the DPF at an accelerated rate!
This would be feasible on high milage specimens with unfavorable use patterns, but it is not the norm based on anything I've seen, read about or experienced.

Do you use the correct oil? Do you run Bio? Have you heard from other "locals" who experience this type of frequency?

I just want to monitor the DPF active regen process because I stopped running it 120 miles a day when pandemic hit and have been mostly short tripping since. I had to have DPF replaced this fall. I run regular diesel. I am using the Amsoil (proper one for the car). I don't know anybody with one of these cars. I like the idea of the VCDS but that seems expensive, over my head. I'm no mechanic. I was just nervous about the oil consumption as it relates to maybe clogging this filter too often. I'm obviously a noob.

From what I am starting to understand though, it seems that if I just run it on the highway in 5th gear at 2000rpm for 15 minutes with relative frequency, I should be fine. But now that I know about this, I should get a dongle and the app anyway.

 

[TurboABA]

@Brynildsen
The system is fully autonomous and doesn't really require anything from you as a driver when everything works as it should.
If and when a component fails, or driving conditions & patterns are not conducive to proper operation, the system starts "failing".
You really are only required to take "a drive" as per my post above, once you get a warning lamp.
If you want to be "proactive", then you can go for a cruise once in a while in order to avoid getting said lamp.
If you want to keep an eye on things, then you get a monitor\gauge to keep an eye on the different parameters (but once again, this info is only useful if you have some understanding of the system and how it functions) and this can certainly help you avoid interrupting an active regen, or to make some adjustments to your use pattern in order to "optimize" operation.

Based on what you've posted, I would say a monitor is sufficient for your existing needs.

 

[hskrdu]

For the OP,

Based on your post (#28), you would need:

(1) An Android phone: I bought one for a few bucks off Ebay, since VAGDPF is not made for Iphone.
(2) VAGDPF: An app for Android (pictured in Lightflyer's helpful post above) that has excellent/easy graphic monitoring system for DPF information.
(3) A Bluetooth (BT) dongle. This plugs into the OBD port and "talks" to your Android phone. The VAGDPF developer formerly listed his preferred BT dongles (which may be outdated), but all you need is one that reliably communicates. The cheap ones from China are not worth the money, and you can get "good" ones for not much more. I think I bought the Carista dongle for $25. You do not need a BT dongle that costs lots more, or that is tied to additional diagnostic software, unless you want those functions. You do not typically need the software that is often tied to a BT dongle (I do not use the Carista app, only VAGDPF).

VAG DPF - Apps on Google Play

DPF particulate filter status of your TDI VW Audi Seat Skoda (see engine list)

play.google.com

Ross-Tech VCDS is free VW diagnostic software that allows you to monitor much of the car's systems, and skip the dealer for many basic issues. In order to properly use the software, you would need to buy VCDS cable, which is the wired version of how your computer (with VCDS software) talks to the OBD port. The cable (or now the wireless options) are a small investment, but pays for itself when you skip the dealer a few times.

Ross-Tech: Bentley CD Order Form

After that, spend some time reading the previous years of posts regarding these topics.

Also, does Amsoil make the right oil for your engine? Don't reveal your oil to the dealer, as they often try to escape from warranty work for any reason.

HTH.