Using Furnace oil in TDI's (PD's)

[2004Nick]

I would really like to know if anybody out there in Fred's land is using bulk furnace oil for fuel, especially in the 2004-2006 PD motors. Ive been told repeatedly by bulk
fuel dealers inthe US and Canada that there is abvsolutely no diffenence between "furnace oil" (untaxed) and "road
diesel (taxed big time). I used the former for many years
with no problems in my various Jetta diesels (1980's), but I never had the guts tro try it in my new 2004 TDI wagon,
mainly because the VW manual specifically prohibits it's use in the high pressure BEW unit injectors. Nevertheless,
I would be really surprised if nobody else is using it. My question is: what was the outcome?

 

[dieseldorf]

I would really like to know if anybody out there in Fred's land is using bulk furnace oil for fuel, especially in the 2004-2006 PD motors.

Nicky, is this legal

 

[40X40]

In most places there are allowable differences. However, in practice the actual difference is usually lack of road tax paid and the addition of red dye to signify which is which.

So in a case of life and death, you can, if you must, run that furnace fuel safely but for everyday use we all (of course) need to pay our fair share.

I have heard of rather stiff fines if caught..... So I don't suggest or go that route even though I have easy access to tractor fuel. (similar fuel and tax issues)

HTH

Bill

 

[2004Nick]

Furnace oil in TDIs

Thanks, Dieseldorf; I was jsut about to turn myself in! Nicky

 

[2004Nick]

Furnace oil in TDI's

I'm not talking about marked farm gas or oil; around here they don't mark furnace oil. Sweet.

 

[2004Nick]

Rurnace oil in TDI's

Last post from me on this subject: I'm not asking for a moral judgement; I damn sure pay my share of fuel tax.
What I want to know is if furnace oil, which the bulk dealer swears is the identical product to "road diesel" could possibly hurt my BEW (2004 TDI PD) baby. Nicky.

 

[Joe_Meehan]

What I want to know is if furnace oil, which the bulk dealer swears is the identical product to "road diesel" could possibly hurt my BEW (2004 TDI PD) baby. Nicky.

I would not bet my car on it. The specs are not the same. For example I suspect you will find the lubricity is not speced on heating oil nor sulfur content, that could damage at least some future cars. Who knows what the cetane may be?

The stuff is similar, but not the same.

 

[dieseldorf]

Thanks, Dieseldorf; I was jsut about to turn myself in! Nicky

Nick, I think if you engage the search function you'll find there are 896 posts with identical content/commentary Take a look.

 

[Acidhead]

Well, noticing that you are from B.C. I don't know know what the tax rules are for Canada, eh!. Sorry couldn't resist. However I'm sure it's probably like what we got here. There maybe a difference in additives added in the fuel between the two. The man to tell us if there is, is WNY-Pat. But I'll tell you this, we have, twice, ran out of home heating oil. Since I own my own truck, I went to the terminal and got bought it back. And fill up our tank. And never had a problem with the furnance.

BTW, down here they do mark home heating oil, just a FYI.

 

[OkiTdi]

I suspect that there's a significant difference. There's a lot of stuff in the distillate boiling range that you can't put into diesel and still meet specs. A lot of it will end up in home heating oil, which has different specs.

OkiTDI

 

[wny_pat]

Ive been told repeatedly by bulk fuel dealers inthe US and Canada that there is abvsolutely no diffenence between "furnace oil" (untaxed) and "road diesel (taxed big time).

One difference you might find is Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (15 ppm) vs Low Sulfur Heating Oil (500 ppm). That 500 ppm stuff is no good for your TDI. It was designed to run on the under 50 ppm stuff. Very surprised these bulk fuel dealers don't know this!

 

[mrGutWrench]

I would not bet my car on it. The specs are not the same. (snip)

__. Yeah, Nick, some people have been able to get specs on "furnace oil" and found it's just diesel fuel with no tax paid -- other people have found that the "furnace oil" sold in their locality is basically the "dregs" of refining diesel and the stuff is heavy, cruddy stuff that is pretty hard on any diesel engine; much less a highly stressed, refined, high-tech engine like a TDI.

__. So, it's a cr@p-shoot. Do you feel like risking your engine?

 

[Westro]

Taxes aside, Furnice oil doesn't have to meet any lubrication requirements. As stated it is usually the same stuff as on-road, but it doesn't have to be! As long as it was sampled to meet requirements of D2, no damage should be done.

 

[TheTDIWagonGuy]

I know of a guy that ran fuel oil for about 4 months except that was in a 1984 2.4L Diesel Toyota 4x4. It smoked a bit more but ran well otherwise. I don't think it is a good idea to try that in a modern engine.

 

[lupin..the..3rd]

How can an internet forum possibly tell you the differences between your two fuel sources? Maybe you should ask the forum about the percentage of soot currently in your engine's oil. Or what minerals are present in your ground water. Or what your blood sugar level is today. I think you'd get an equally accurate answer.


Take a sample of both fuels and send them to a lab for analysis. That's the only way you'll get an answer that means anything.

 

[johnboy00]

Here's a thought....

How much money can you possibly save doing this, and is that savings worth the risk of potential engine problems somewhere down the line?

 

[PDJetta]

Its not worth the risk of getting caught by the revenuers, or damage to the motor or injection system for using heating oil. You'll save under a quarter for each gallon. If you drive 20,000 miles a year, its a savings of only $100/year. Don't do it!

Heating oil may or may not be the same as D2. It IS the same refinery fraction, but HHO can have up to 5000 ppm (half a percent by weight) sulphur, or it can be diverted excess road D2 (500 ppm S) from the refinery with dye added. You will never know which it is. Would you trust what the fuel dealer says?

I also suspect HHO may have more ash residue when it burns (may be a function of higher sulfur). All I know is that in the smoke stack of Mom's oil furnace, where it exits the firebox, there are copious grey ashy buildups that have to be removed yearly.

--Nate

 

[wny_pat]

Would you trust what the fuel dealer says?

I dare say that most bulk fuel dealers have no idea what a HHO is.

 

[Bob S.]

ON edit: I know of many a marine diesel that has been run on HHO w/ no ill effects. Then again, they were pre- 2K vintage engines.

I'll wager that an oil lab could tell you difference. It would be interesting to send in 2 blind samples to a lab, one of undyed HHO & the other from a name brand deisel retailer. Heck, I'd even kick in a few bucks to know the results. Bob

 

[2004Nick]

Furnace oil in TDI's

One difference you might find is Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (15 ppm) vs Low Sulfur Heating Oil (500 ppm). That 500 ppm stuff is no good for your TDI. It was designed to run on the under 50 ppm stuff. Very surprised these bulk fuel dealers don't know this!

Pat it's not that they don't know; what they and I know is that it comes in by barge to our water access community, and into the bulk dealer's tank, and then into the truck to
go either out to the retail dealer (service stations) or to
home heating tanks. So it's not just similar, IT'S THE EXACT SAME STUFF! You guys are missing my point. If I'm driving in my town, this is what I'm burning!

 

[david_594]

So it's not just similar, IT'S THE EXACT SAME STUFF! You guys are missing my point. If I'm driving in my town, this is what I'm burning!

Well seeing as how you know that you have answered your own question.

Can we go back to passing moral judgements on your tax evasion now?

 

[2004Nick]

Touche', Dave, end of thread as far as I'm concerned.

 

[PDJetta]

From the EIA this last week:

"Residential heating oil prices decreased almost imperceptibly during the period ending March 12, 2007. The average residential heating oil price moved downward by 0.1 cent per gallon last week to reach 249.5 cents per gallon."

We are NOT talking about any big savings! Like I said, less than a quarter a gallon!

--Nate