Used oil analysis is alarming

Dgravle514

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Dec 21, 2018
Location
South Carolina
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14' JSW
I just wanted to post this here and see what you guys would have to say about this UOA report. My metal levels seemed a little more elevated than average, but I do have more miles on this interval than the universal averages (8000) in the right column. Should I be alarmed or just let it go? I am going to have to put a DMF in it in the next couple weeks, but I really did not want to put any more money into the car if something was going on with the engine. The Photo is in the google link below.




84,0000 Miles on CBJAA 14 Sportwagen
10,400 Oil Change Interval




https://photos.app.goo.gl/bM5JK7zHTvM9mV3LA
 
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James & Son

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Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta
You have about a tablespoon of fuel in each quart of oil. Do you do a lot of short runs or is your thermostat not functioning properly. I don't see how that is possible if you are running more than 30 miles an operating cycle. I am not familiar with the emmisions and changes, is the emmission cycle operating normal, otherwise I would be blaming this on volkswagon.
 
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Dgravle514

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Dec 21, 2018
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South Carolina
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14' JSW
My daily commute is about 30 miles one way, but on the other hand I do run a lot of short trips as well. Thermostat seems to be working fine. The DPF was replaced about half way through this oil change interval because it was clogged. VW replaced it under warranty. I would think that the clogged DPF would have a huge effect on the oil, because it ran many more regens than it should have been.
 

turbobrick240

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Yes, the dilution was probably caused by excessive regens to a loaded dpf.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Thermostat seems to be working fine.
How do you know? The gauges on these cars are so heavily dampened that they read normal for a very wide range of temps. And a poorly functioning thermostat can prevent regens, which can also lead to DPF clogging. Since your DPF needed replacement, I'd question the thermostat. It would be worthwhile to have someone check the actual coolant temp when the car's been running long enough to get up to full temperature.

Reading that report, the metals seem more concerning than the fuel in the oil, at least to me. But Blackstone's reports seem to read like that a lot. Maybe they're nothing to worry about, at least nothing you can do anything about, other than making sure you're using the correct oil and a good filter.
 

Lightflyer1

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If extra regens are the issue you need to take a more active role in letting them complete when needed. No way that DPF should have been clogged already and short tripping can cause this to happen. Get a tool/app that lets you monitor the regens and use it to let them happen when needed. Otherwise I would suspect you will be seeing the dealer for issues pretty regularly. VagDPF and a BT dongle works pretty well for this. Pretty inexpensive as well. Does your multifunction display show actual temps? If not get someone to use VCDS or similar to read your actual operating temps for you.

One report, especially the first one doesn't mean much anyway. You are really looking at trends here and not just one instance.
 
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03GolfTDI

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Was this a buyback car? If so was the oil changed during emissions fix and/or since you purchased it?

I imagine some internal corrosion happened on these engines when they sat in purgatory and all that had to get scraped off when they finally were let back loose in the wild.

Just a thought.
 

Kevinski4

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Nebraska
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'00 ALH Jetta GLS
What kind of oil? Wear metals are through the roof. Elevated wear on emissions controlled vehicles is normal, based on the stick thread at the top of this subforum, but yours is significantly higher. Though I've not seen any other UOA's from "fixed" cars, so this could be normal.
 

Dgravle514

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Dec 21, 2018
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South Carolina
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14' JSW
I purchased this car from an individual. The emissions fix was preformed at 68,000 miles and I purchased the car at 74,000 miles. I immediately had an oil change done at the dealership. The DPF was replaced around 78,500 miles.



I have VCDS so I will keep an eye on the coolant temp. What should I be looking for as far as temperatures?



It has always been in the back of my head that something else was going on internally to cause the DPF to fail, but it seemed really common so I never really thought much more about it. I attributed the failed DPF to the previous owner short tripping.


Thanks for all the help thus far.
 

andreigbs

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Guys, one UOA does not a story tell. If there were other UOAs and a trend is evident, then we could opine more knowledgeably. Until then, let's not freak the OP out.
 

Dgravle514

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South Carolina
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14' JSW
I am not too worried about it. I am more curious than anything. I am more upset about the trashed DMF that I am getting replaced in a few weeks.



On the other hand I did watch coolant temps via VAG-Com on the morning and evening commute and everything looked fine. I bet the elevated metal levels are from the DPF malfunction, because the car ran awful before the check engine light came on indicating emissions issues.
 

Dgravle514

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Dec 21, 2018
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South Carolina
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14' JSW
Was this a buyback car? If so was the oil changed during emissions fix and/or since you purchased it?

I imagine some internal corrosion happened on these engines when they sat in purgatory and all that had to get scraped off when they finally were let back loose in the wild.

Just a thought.

That would make sense, but according to my car-fax it doesn't look like mine sat idle very long.
 

James & Son

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I am not too worried about it. I am more curious than anything. I am more upset about the trashed DMF that I am getting replaced in a few weeks.



On the other hand I did watch coolant temps via VAG-Com on the morning and evening commute and everything looked fine. I bet the elevated metal levels are from the DPF malfunction, because the car ran awful before the check engine light came on indicating emissions issues.
Ok, this car has had the emissions "upgrade". Interesting. Has anybody knowledge with this change noticed fuel in the oil. Is this a trend.

If you haven't already, read the last paragraph in Go Fasters first post in his sticky thread in Fuels & Lubricants
Sticky: "What oil do I use?" READ FIRST BEFORE ASKING

Then I would try to understand exactly what the emission software is doing each time you drive the car.

If this oil change will not be affected by a compromised emissions then get a UOA at 5000 miles. Change the oil if wear metals are still high and post your results. You want to see lower wear metal trend.

Note each oil change retains 15% of the wear metals from the previous change. You want to get the wear metals lower and changing oil early may be necessary. You are trending 7.3 parts per million per 1000 miles of aluminium. That has to come down dramatically to 2 parts per 1000 miles to be average. I would think it will now that repairs have been made, but how much? The UOA's will tell the story.
 

Dgravle514

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Dec 21, 2018
Location
South Carolina
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14' JSW
Ok, this car has had the emissions "upgrade". Interesting. Has anybody knowledge with this change noticed fuel in the oil. Is this a trend.

If you haven't already, read the last paragraph in Go Fasters first post in his sticky thread in Fuels & Lubricants
Sticky: "What oil do I use?" READ FIRST BEFORE ASKING

Then I would try to understand exactly what the emission software is doing each time you drive the car.

If this oil change will not be affected by a compromised emissions then get a UOA at 5000 miles. Change the oil if wear metals are still high and post your results. You want to see lower wear metal trend.

Note each oil change retains 15% of the wear metals from the previous change. You want to get the wear metals lower and changing oil early may be necessary. You are trending 7.3 parts per million per 1000 miles of aluminium. That has to come down dramatically to 2 parts per 1000 miles to be average. I would think it will now that repairs have been made, but how much? The UOA's will tell the story.



Sounds like a good plan. I will keep this updated. I am at 4000 miles now. I talked to Blackstone and they said we should definitely be able to tell something if I send them a sample now, but I will wait a little longer.



From what you guys say and goFast's oil post the extra fuel injected during regens it makes sense where the fuel came from. It was crazy how poor the car ran and how many times it stayed in regen before the check engine light came on indicating an emission issue. To me the VW differential presser sensors on the exhaust have too wide of a threshold. I feel like it should have been throwing a code earlier. I had just bought the car so I did not know any better.
 

tdiatlast

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Wondering now if the timing of WHEN the oil sample is taken for a UOA is important? Right after a regen, perhaps the excess fuel would skew the numbers, versus a sample taken after a lengthy run, just PRIOR to a regen, and the excess fuel having been burned off???
 

James & Son

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Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta
silicon is high, way up at 42! That is a red flag, unless sample got contaminated during collection? Otherwise air cleaner is likely plugged? Check for air leaks into crankcase?
 

Dgravle514

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Dec 21, 2018
Location
South Carolina
TDI
14' JSW
I am thinking contamination. There was a lot of room for contamination since I used a long hose that I had in the shop to pump the sample from the dip stick. I thought I cleaned it really well. The air filter is fresh. I just happened to look at it yesterday.
 

jerrymander

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Just keep an eye on silicon for the next change and try to not contaminate.
 

andreigbs

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I'd say the use of words like "alarming" might be a stretch. One UOA is just one data point, two is.....two data points. They do not, a trend, make.

Point is: don't lose sleep over it. Change the oil on time, don't worry too much about extending the interval to the proverbial breaking point. Oil changes are cheap (cheaper than a UOA anyway) and good insurance for a long lasting engine. I went through this phase too, glad to say I've learned some interesting things but I now go by the book on intervals.

My diesels seem happy :)
 

Dgravle514

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Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Location
South Carolina
TDI
14' JSW
I'd say the use of words like "alarming" might be a stretch. One UOA is just one data point, two is.....two data points. They do not, a trend, make.

Point is: don't lose sleep over it. Change the oil on time, don't worry too much about extending the interval to the proverbial breaking point. Oil changes are cheap (cheaper than a UOA anyway) and good insurance for a long lasting engine. I went through this phase too, glad to say I've learned some interesting things but I now go by the book on intervals.

My diesels seem happy :)

Makes sense. The more I read the less I worry.
 
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