Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF's

[tongsli]

Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Ok,

First thanks to JSG for the written instructions. They helped out a bunch

Second, make sure you have a 8mm 12pt Triple point Serrated Wrench bit. I wasted time running around looking for one

Just like any project I seem to do, first lots of pics then as I get into the job, I seem to forget to take pics. So, I will amend these when we get to replacing Golfstream's regulator.

I did the passenger's side and will do my driver's side next.


Lito

New Pictures and organized into THREE PDF's:

Door Panel Removal

Regulator Removal

New Clip Installation

[ August 03, 2002, 23:19: Message edited by: tongsli ]

 

[GoneDiesel]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Great post. Just in time too! My drive side is out. Anyone heard when the new regulators are out? I called my local stealership but they do not have any yet. The price is sopposed to dro also. Anyone with prices yet?

 

[GoneDiesel]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Where can a guy find a tool like that?

 

[tongsli]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

I hear the new regulators are going to be in the $70.00 range. But, why not just get this kit? It's only $20.

If the rest is in good shape, why replace the entire thing? Having gone through this, you don't have to tansfer the motor, speaker, or door lock.

Saves a bunch of work.

I bought the tool from a Salvo Auto. It's the Performance Tool brand. Pep Boys didn't have it.

Driver's side is a little trickier with the door lock. I will be doing that next.

Lito

 

[Just Some Guy]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Originally posted by tongsli:

Driver's side is a little trickier with the door lock. I will be doing that next.

Lito[/QB]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, there's no difference at all. The lock cylinder comes out exactly the same way.

Glad the instructions helped!

 

[GoneDiesel]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Does Salvo Auto have an internet site? Where did you get the kit? I know thats all I need. VW Parts and my stealership were out when I asked. The stealership wanted $50 for the kit and $150 for the new regulator when they come out. LOL! I called the VW consumer line to let them know how unhappy I was to get screwed twice by VW. Once for buying a car with defective windows and then to get banged again in the arse by the parts dept to replace the defective part. They said they would help me with the cost of the part but I'd have to foot the bill for labor. LOL! The stealership wants to charge me ~$200 for labor. I told the woman what they quoted me to replace it and what it would cost me to buy it online. She of course didn't have anything to reply. I want to ask her what she drives?

 

[MOGolf]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Lito, if you remove the lower A-pillar trim inside the car, you can disconnect the three electrical connectors and pass the wires out through to the door. This would save unclipping and removing the wiring harness from the door panel. With this approach the only wiring to disconnect is the tweeter, mirror, door light, switches and LED (driver door) IIRC. Just the ones attached to the trim panel. The driver's side requires removing the hood release handle first.

And I don't think you need to completely remove the screws at the window clamping clips through the big covered holes. Just loosen them enough to get the glass free. That way nothing falls inside the door.

Try these the next time and see if it is any easier.

 

[Just Some Guy]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Why can't I see the .pdf stuff?

I wanna see!!!

 

[tongsli]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Glen,

Thanks for the tips. Removing the little clips is't really hard, just a bunch of them. I will look into this on the driver's side door.

The only reason I pulled the clip apart was by accident!! Didn't mean to

One I removed, the other I loosened.

I will add more pics on the next install.

thanks,

Lito

GoneDiesel, I got my repair kit from Impex for $20 each. I bet Master-Carr has that bit you could order online.

Master-Carr's web site

Also, check out www.Zelenda.com They sell a Hazet Multipoint - 8MM 990 LG-8 This might work too. Verify that it has 12pts!!

[ July 14, 2002, 21:05: Message edited by: tongsli ]

 

[tongsli]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Page 1: removing the interior door handle

Page 2:removing the interior door panel

Page 3:detail of interior trim panel plastic door clip

Page 4:rmoving harnesses from trim panel

Page 5:taping the glass

Page 6:accessing the door clips

Page 7:removing the window motor harness

Page 8:speaker and mirror harness

Page 9:removing the door lock harness

Page 10:removing the door lock

Page 11:replacing regulator clips

Page 12:new regulator clips installed

Page 13:detail of new cable guide with repair kit

[ July 14, 2002, 20:41: Message edited by: tongsli ]

 

[Chip Master]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

tongsli,

Is this repair kit a factory VW part or something that someone has made up? If it is a factory VW part, what part numbers do we need for this repair kit?

 

[RC]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

U da man Lito, great instructional post! Hope I never have to go through this, I just hate yanking door panels off with all those plastic clips, I`m sure to break something.

 

[lrpavlo]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Wow! definately one for the archives don't you think?????

 

[BillW]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Are those new and improved clips Aluminum or Plastic? I think metal is the way to go.

I have replaced my driver's side twice. I ended up bribing a VW mechanic for his personal small 12 point bit paying a lot more than what it was worth, but finished my car right away during winter. I have this door install down really fast after two broken window regulators! I would not mind paying for some replacement parts for $20.00 each.

BTW, the dealer actually gave me window regulators for free and I installed them myself.

They just wanted the old regulator assembly to ship back to VW for their reimbursement. After telling them how fast I was at fixing my window regulator, they offered me a job to fix broken regulators, jokingly I hoped!

Personally, VW should cover their own engineering defeat and offer the new metal assembly! I only wish the plastic one they gave me was metal.

Any ideas if they still will cover the replacement free of charge for the metal version?

Does the window have to be broken in order to receive a new regulator?

If not, I would not mind replacing all four of my regulators!

No more mishasp ever again during those frozen winter months!

 

[harthaug]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

There is a good thread over on Vortex with some pics of the parts...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=411988

 

[schnabba]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

man, I am becoming an acrobat junkie!

Good job man! Great information - pretty soon I will have a maintenance and repair manual just from these articles everyone is posting!

keep em comin!

 

[tongsli]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Thanks Guys.

I tend to be a little long-winded. I want to do another version soon. WIth more detail.

CHipmaster,

The kit is from VW. Here are the numbers:

1JM 898 461 - Driver's side
1JM 898 462 - Passenger's side

Lito

 

[diesel#2]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

THANKS!

Question though-- is anyone having problems w/ the back windows or is this just a front door issue? (smaller window, not as much of a problem??) If both front and back, is the kit the same for the front and back window (ie one needs to order two passenger and two driver side kits???) Having had one break I'm willing to do the preventive maintenance-- but-- how much do we need to do (all 4 windows or just the front 2)?

Thanks again for the excellent posting on this subject! Chad

 

[tongsli]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Chad,

Don't know about the rears. If you're around on Sunday, Mel is coming over to my place to do a regulator replacement. You're welcome to stop by. Email me if you're free.

Lito

 

[tongsli]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

New Pictures and organized into THREE PDF's:

Door Panel Removal

Regulator Removal

New Clip Installation

Lito

[ July 21, 2002, 18:47: Message edited by: tongsli ]

 

[golfstream]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Just wanted to jump in here and thank Lito for helping me (actually, I think he did more of the work) upgrade my driver's side window regulator yesterday.

We did this by replacing not the entire regulator but just the improved parts that the cable ends attach to where the window glass clamps are. This has been the weak part in the system and the new parts are much more robust and completely metal with only nylon inserts. The old piece relied on the plastic for structural support when riding up and down the rail, while the new piece has the nylon plastic piece that glides on the rail but is completed supported/surrounded by cast alloy. It should last a long time.

Anyway, thanks Lito for all your help and for all of the things you continue to learn about improving these cars which helps us all.

-Mel

 

[jayb79]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Is this a golf/jetta isue or does this apply to the NB as well? Does anyone know?

 

[tongsli]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Hmm...

Don't know.

If anyone in the Baltimore/Washington area needs a window regulator upgrade or replaced, just get the parts and let me know when you want to change them.

I've changed four now and have got the entire operation to 2 hours.

Lito

 

[DEZLBOY]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

tongsli...just wanted to say thanks for posting this information. the procedure is a bit too complicated for me to try on my own (even with your great instructions). But I wonder if I shouldn't order the kits so I have em when I need em?

Is there any reason you are just replacing the fronts and not the rears?

And, am a bit confused - does the kit just have the clips? or also the cable guide? Do you recommend replacing clips and guide?

Also..is there a "quick fix" routine? In other words, when the window drops, what is the best way to prop it back up - just so it stays shut.

Thanks again
___________________________________
BTW, I just wrote this letter to VW:

Dear Gerd Klauss, CEO, Volkswagen of America, Inc.

I am writing with a question about the reliability of my power windows.

While I am currently very satisfied with my model year 2000 Golf TDI, am I increasing worried that my car will experience a power window (regulator) failure. No doubt you are aware of this widespread defect and that a new "repair kit" with metal (vice plastic) parts has been introduced.

It is unsettling to drive a car expecting a window to fall down into the tracks at anytime - especially if it is during the winter, raining, etc. This defect, in my opinion, is a safety issue.

Also it is unsettling that Volkswagen of America does not have a company-wide policy concerning the reimbursement for this repair nor has instituted a recall to repair this defect. There are many horror stories of windows failing and cars being out of service for months while backordered parts arrive.

I want Volkswagen to cover the full cost to repair any defective window regardless of warranty status. Additionally, VW should be pro-active and issue a recall. This recall would improve Volkswagen's customer service ratings by greatly decreasing the frustration and inconvenience caused by such failures. The lack of a recall gives the impression VW is profiting from the repairs of this defect, instead of taking actions to minimize the number of failures experienced by VW owners.

I am currently unable to recommend the purchase of a Volkswagen to my friends which is a shame because I like my car. But, Volkswagen is not providing the level of service an owner deserves. A defect of this magnitude should be repaired on a recall basis.

Also a notification letter should be sent to owners, explaining the possibility of failure, and how to make emergency repairs to keep the window (taped) in the closed position.

Thank you considering my recall suggestion. I look forward to receiving your response.
__________________________________________

[ July 29, 2002, 13:56: Message edited by: DEZLBOY ]

 

[diesel#2]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Excellent letter!

Do you have the complete mailing address and/or know that this is the "correct" place to be complaining? I would gladly write a similar letter and would appreciate the information. VW of America paid for 1/2 of my first (still waiting on the remainder) repair as a goodwill gesture (I called the 800# first too and had a customer care #, all work done at dealer etc, etc). The lack of a "standardized" policy is disappointing.

As this is possibly a true safety issue, we (as a collective group) might get a better response if a large number of individuals started filing complaints at NHTSA. The following URL should take you directly to the complaint form http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/ivoq/default.htm

I started a separate thread asking about rear windows-- Hopefully something useful will come from this thread but ????

As relates to taping and a 'quick-fix'-- when I heard the loud crack I immedietly pulled off and bought a small box of peel-off mailing labels so that I had a large supply of ready cut tape-strips(its all they had at the store). I found that they worked surprisingly well and held up my window for a week -- they were easy to peel off in the end but seemed to do the job. I know keep a spare box in the car just in case.

 

[DEZLBOY]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

diesel#2 - thanks for the compliment.

VW's address is:
Volkswagen of America
3800 Hamlin Road
Auburn Hills MI 48326.

I used the website Planet Feedback to get the address and they will send the letter to VW. If I don't get a response in two weeks, I will snail mail the letter myself.

Just filled out the NHSTA form you linked too. Easy to do. thanks.

When the window drops, can you still pull it up with your fingers?

BTW: I drive thru Takoma Park (Ethan Allen and past the metro) to get to work....

[ July 29, 2002, 14:36: Message edited by: DEZLBOY ]

 

[tongsli]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Is there any reason you are just replacing the fronts and not the rears?

The rears seem fine. I haven't heard too much about the rear breaking

And, am a bit confused - does the kit just have the clips? or also the cable guide? Do you recommend replacing clips and guide?

The kit comes with the clips and cable guide, I didn't replace the guide because it was in great shape. Just the clips were broken. I have kept the guide just in case

Also..is there a "quick fix" routine? In other words, when the window drops, what is the best way to prop it back up - just so it stays shut.

The tape seems like it should work. You can pull up on the window if BOTH clips are broken. Both my driver's side and passenger's side (front) window regulators had at least ONE clip broken and were still working.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lito

 

[brownnugen]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

Is there a window regulator fix for B4's as well or is this A4 specific? Our window regulators are notoriously bad (as well as our door handles)

-Nick

[ August 01, 2002, 07:28: Message edited by: brownnugen ]

 

[DEZLBOY]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

VW's Response to my letter via PlanetFeedback...

I was contacted by VW Customer Service. They are NOT issuing a recall because problem is not safety related. They said =if= my window busted (none have busted yet), then call back and they would assist - hinting at some coverage of cost. But clearly they know EXACTLY what you are calling about...this is no minor issue with VW.

Customer service said that the factory parts have been upgraded time to time (eventhough it seems none of the upgrades have quite been good enough). But, their point was that some cars will never experience a problem if they have a better part then a more prone to fail part - and therefore VW isn't recalling the cars.

Seems pretty lame to me. I am going to take the letter I wrote and send it directly to the CEO of VW.

This is my theory. Let's assume only 50% of all windows will ever fail. I think it is still cheaper for VW to replace all clips (or regulators?) on a recall basis. It takes twice as much time for a VW mechanic to open the door, prop up the window. Then for the customer to come back a second time and have the door fixed. So, if VW did an orderly recall, I think it would save them from having to do the "same" work twice. And the money "saved" by not having customers NOT buy VW again would also pay for the recall. (that's a poorly written paragraph..but i guess you get my point.)

 

[jjvincent]

Re: Upgraded Window Regulators: New Pictures and New PDF\'s

This approach was tried back in the mid 1980's with VWOA. At that time it was the Audi 5000. The 5000 regulators failed more often than the VW's do today. Audi went through about 10 different revisions before they got it right. Audi would not replace the regulators through a recall or even a campaign. Numerous people complained about this problem but Audi wouldn't budge. VWOA has vast experience with this type of problem and how to avoid it. I don't think it's right but that's what they do.
FYI here is a list of problems that plagued those cars and VWOA wouldn't recall:
All four-window regulators (10 revisions)
Sunroof (5 revisions)
AC controller (4 revisions)
AC programmer (4 revisions)
AC controller cable (5 revisions)
Heater cores (fixed the problem in 1992)
Outer door handles (2 revisions)
Temp. sensor on engine (5 revisions)
Radiator fan resistor pack (3 revisions)

As you can tell these cars were a mechanics dream and a consumer’s nightmare. I hope that VWOA will change their attitude. Good customer service brings back repeat customers.