Up T3 headers warped

[Ynot]

FYI It was posted some time ago that the Up T3 kit was released in a limited quantity with warped header flanges. It has been brought to my attention (latest being a kit that was aquired a few months ago)that there may still be a few of these warped kits still out "there". Broken studs, nuts not staying torqued and coming loose and exhaust leaks have been the issues. If you have one of these kits and have not installed it yet, PLEASE have the mounting flange for the turbo and the head checked for flatness. It will save you a lot of time and money in the long run. "I" was asked if I wanted a replacement header by Up when it was first brough to light, so I do not know what is going on with other kits out there, a few might have gotten out that are still warped.

Ynot

 

[Stealth TDI]

Hi,

It's a shame this is still happening. I was pretty shocked about the head stud pulling out, too. Someone here warned me of that potential while using my warped header. I'm glad I pulled the plug on my Upsolute Stage III kit before anything other than my ego was damaged.

The fact this fellow bought a kit in recent months indicates the kits are still selling (although a bit slower). After all the racket I made when I removed my kit, I'm surprised the QC isn't flawless. Besides my own poor experience with this kit, the only other thing that bothers me is that there STILL appears to be no dyno proof that the Stage III kit with the T3 turbo is performing as advertized (170-hp and 300-ft/lbs). Most accounts show the HP is good. But I've only seen top-end torque... no low-end.

JayDHall says he loves his Stage III. But I'm sure most would like to see a more objective report. Like myself at one time, he seems to be the minority when it comes to reporting on the T3 kit.

I can't be convinced to give this kit another shot. But I'd still like to see some success on Upsolute's part. Can ANYONE post a T3-based dyno, VAG-COM plot, or something? Jay is one happy customer. I know of two who are disgusted, either by slow spooling, poor low-end torque, or obnoxious smoke levels; and a handful of others who won't say a word (embarrassed?). Who else has this kit (August '04 and later) and can comment on their experience? Supposedly, there are about 20 "happy" customers out there whose cars are running "as advertized." Unfortunately, no one appears to be spreading the good news here or on other forums.

Anyone?

Scott

 

[2slowtdi]

Ynot did you get a replacement header?

 

[Ynot]

Nothing against Up, I oppted to have mine machined by someone I can talk to in person and has a reputation in Las Vegas of top notch work. By the time I paid for shipping it back bla bla, it would have cost me the same. I had a few extra things done, ie bung hole for EGT knocked down some of the roughness inside where the welding was not clean. It now sits as a door stop. Just as I get close to putting it in, I get a e-mail that some poor guy yaked his studs out of his head from his warped header. It's there. I just need the cash and the time to play with it. It just so happens it appears to be more of a project than a Kit. When it goes in I want all my resources to be ready so I do not have gobs of down time.

Ynot

 

[20ValveT]

T series turbos are useless, the only positive on them is that their cheap, in comparison to the GT series. You can do a search on the vortex in the forced induction forum, theres pleantly of info, and dynos that'll show you differences between the GT turbo's and the T- turbos.

I was able to mount a GT20 to an Mk2 turbo diesel manifold for $50 bones CND, 30 for a manifold from the junk yard, 20 bucks for an adapter plate. Before anyone starts trashing the TD manifold there have been quite a few 8V gassers that have managed well over 200whp using a TD manifold, so its definitely not a restriction. The manifold is pretty much plug and play on a MK3 TDI, however mounting it to an MK4 might require a wee bit more work.

Stick with he GT series turbos folks, their more expensive cause they work better...........that almost sounded like the buckley's cough syrop commercial hehehehe

 

[Ynot]

There really is not much wrong with any of the stock intake and exhaust manifolds used on these cars, other than they do not hold the parts that we want to switch to

. Saw a BANKS dual turbo system for a gaser that used cast exhaust manifolds, the biggest deal was aligning the ports on the heads with the header exhaust for better flow.

Ynot

 

[jaydhall]

I still love it. Please understand that I did NOT buy it to make 170 HP. All I can say is it is wicked fast! I am out of work right now and, perhaps, when I get a job, I might put it on a dyno. It really does not excite me to put my car on a dyno. I am happy with the power and I am only trying to please ME! What can I say?

 

[Davin]

Besides my own poor experience with this kit, the only other thing that bothers me is that there STILL appears to be no dyno proof that the Stage III kit with the T3 turbo is performing as advertized (170-hp and 300-ft/lbs).

A while back some of us "anti-ups conspiracy" wackos

poked and prodded about these reported 170/300 numbers that were used to market the kit. Lo and behold, rene said that those were CRANK numbers and that anyone who interpreted them as wheel was mistaken because they of course always quote crank performance.

 

[Ynot]

Jaydhall,

I for one am happy to hear you chime in.

Let me put this way, the T3 from my point of view, was just a nut bolt short of being ready for the masses. If you used mfg development talk, not enough $ in the R&D for repeatability and dependability. Hardware and software included. If you received this kit from the likes of : BANKS, EDLEBROCK, GARRETT, NEUSPEED, etc. you would be scratching your head ***!. OK anyone who has delt with Upsolute understands the NA office and how it works. Let's get over it. I just wanted to let anyone with a kit that is not installed to beaware one or more stray warped headers may have got out and to please check it. This was not meant to be a torque wrench throwing thread, we have been there and done that. Myself, ** I am disapointed, but I have the drive to make it work or some hybrid version of it work. It would look better under my hood than holding my garage door open.

Ynot

 

[BLUBYU]

I still love it.

Dzljet indicated he intended to run 170 whp not Upsolute. To my knowledge they have always posted the lower number, it was not marketed ever as such. Dzl was always a little outside the box from others, this forum included.

Dzljet sent me a dyno of a 179 whp pull with 327 ft lbs a long time ago so evidently he got what he was aiming for.

Dzl, told me just recently that he's still running strong and very happy with his Stage III kit.

I guess like so many other things, results vary along with opinions and memories.

 

[Stealth TDI]

Hi,

Dzljet indicated he intended to run 170 whp not Upsolute. To my knowledge they have always posted the lower number, it was not marketed ever as such.

This is incorrect. Upsolute advertizes the kit as "Provides a very reliable 170HP and 300ft/lbs torque." The HP is definitely met by most with this kit. Even if you convert the torque value to the wheel, I haven't seen a T3 kit deliver even 250-ft/lbs. I'd love to see one deliver at least that kind of wheel torque by 2500-rpm. These days, TDIs are approaching that barrier on the STOCK turbo (not mine, though).

Dzljet sent me a dyno of a 179 whp pull with 327 ft lbs a long time ago so evidently he got what he was aiming for.

Dzljet's car is awesome! However, he is NOT running the T3 kit. His turbo is a GT20. Plus, he's done quite a bit more work than just an Stage III kit. Although his car is often used as "evidence," his car is not what the T3 customer can expect until someone proves it can be done.

Scott

 

[Mahoutsukai]

FYI It was posted some time ago that the Up T3 kit was released in a limited quantity with warped header flanges. It has been brought to my attention (latest being a kit that was aquired a few months ago)that there may still be a few of these warped kits still out "there". Broken studs, nuts not staying torqued and coming loose and exhaust leaks have been the issues. If you have one of these kits and have not installed it yet, PLEASE have the mounting flange for the turbo and the head checked for flatness. It will save you a lot of time and money in the long run. "I" was asked if I wanted a replacement header by Up when it was first brough to light, so I do not know what is going on with other kits out there, a few might have gotten out that are still warped.
Ynot

Thanks for the information.

I bought and recieved an Upsolute Stage III kit in the Spring of this year. I have not installed it yet do to personal reasons, however I look forward to installing it this fall. I plan to post video, etc. on my site once it's installed, and dynos once it's broken in.

 

[Spike_TDI]

I sure hope Ups isn't stupid enough to ship the headers without having the flange surfaces decked after welding. The problem with the header design is that the head side flange is connected to all four runners. If you simply cut a 3/16" slot in the flange between each of the runner most if not all the problems with warpping will go away.

Ups was on the right track for having a good solid manifold with the cast ATP that shipped with the GT kits.
The welded on adapter was a horrible design, I don't understand why they contracted these SS manifolds when they went with the T series turbo. Especially when the cast manifolds are clearly flows better then these log manifolds. So instead of having good hardware with bad software they have bad hardware and software.

 

[Ynot]

Mahoutsukai
Your photo looks to be of the corrected header.

The cast headers of the original T3, Up had some problems crop up with the mfg and was forced to go to the SS version. Mostly due to the fact that the orders were so far behind, I think they just took what came close. I know this is what happened with the group that StealthTDI and I were involved with.

Ynot

 

[Mahoutsukai]

Mahoutsukai
Your photo looks to be of the corrected header.

Thanks,
BTW: I went crazy with the camera, so if you want to see more pictures, take a look here:
UPS Stage III gallery
The pictures were taken with a Canon 3MP powershot camera with a macro lens.