Unfixable 2010 TDI Touareg

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
If I were you I would look up the buyback value on your Touareg that was provided during the dieselgate scandal and attempt to get that $ amount from VW. I don't have a copy handy, but you should be able to find one on the web. My guess is that its a $30-35k value or something around that.

Also, if you don't like your offer I strongly advise getting a lawyer. I believe that the Dieselgate emissions warranty gives you a very strong ground to get properly compensated.

And unless this is resolved to your satisfaction ASAP, I'd also demand an equittable rental car. I think they ought to have you driving a new Atlas while you wait.
Thank you for the kind words, I really do appreciate it! As far as the loaner, hopefully this is almost over. I am a laid back, easy going person, I don't do the whole "demands" thing, that's part of why this situation has been so weird for me because I've had to get a little agressive with some people. Even if they did decide to put me in something else, I'd have an almost 4hr round trip so unless it's gonna be another month or something, I'll just make do. I will know a lot more after today I hope, I'll see what I have to do from here.

As far as the buyback, I don't believe any of that extends to anyone that purchases the car AFTER its been turned in and the fix done and then re sold. I'm not trying to make out like a bandit, I'm not trying to get anything I don't deserve, I'm not asking for anything above and beyond. If it ends up a buyback I would simply expect basic Lemon Law buyback procedures which would be 100% of the full purchase price of the car, all taxes and dealer fees included. There's even an allowance for the manufacturer to deduct mileage from that value, I would be okay with that. That seems like an honest, reasonable solution. Now if they come back with some lowball bs offer to take it off my hands we'll be taking a legal route. I've been waiting to hear what they even say first before I make any more big decisions, but they've strung me along from Dec 22nd, to Jan 8th, to now Jan 12th. Its straight up limbo and has been for weeks now, freaking miserable.
 

Zawurah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Location
The Morning Star
TDI
3.0
The repair settlement has a lemon law buyback agreement, if the vehicle has the same emission problem repaired multiple times, or if the total repair time over multiple visits goes over a specified amount. Except, that option is only good for a specified amount of time after the settlement is accepted by the owner. My guess, is that time period has already passed, unless you previously had repair issues and the buyback conditions were reached during that valid lemon coverage period.

Look through the settlement details for the lemon law details.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
The repair settlement has a lemon law buyback agreement, if the vehicle has the same emission problem repaired multiple times, or if the total repair time over multiple visits goes over a specified amount. Except, that option is only good for a specified amount of time after the settlement is accepted by the owner. My guess, is that time period has already passed, unless you previously had repair issues and the buyback conditions were reached during that valid lemon coverage period.

Look through the settlement details for the lemon law details.
Thanks for the info! I've read over all the settlement paperwork that I can find and I haven't seen anything about a lemon law buyback in any of it. The emissions modification was done in April of 2019, I'm the first owner since, purchasing it in September of '19. The first problem popped up February of 2020, then April of 2020, then August of 2020 and it's still there on that trip.

I spoke to the RCM Supervisor yesterday who is dealing w the CR&R dept. On my behalf, they have kept stringing me along from Dec 22, to Jan 8, to Jan 12th, now they're saying the QTM thinks this next thing will fix it so I'm now having to wait on that. I've been calling lawyers like crazy, nothing yet.

IF YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE/KNOW WHERE I CAN GET THAT INFO W THE BUYBACK RULES please please post me a link or point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it!
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
Found it in the FTC Amended Second Partial Stipulated Order (05/17/2017). Page 43-44, L-M. Damn I should have demanded a buyback 33 days ago!

L. Defendants must offer (for Repaired Vehicles) or reoffer (for Modified Vehicles) and provide a Buyback or Lease Termination to any Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee of a Modified or Repaired Vehicle, in the event that, during the 18 months or 18,000 miles(whichever occurs first)following the completion of the Approved Emissions Modification or Certified Emissions Repair (the “Reoffer Period”):

1. Defendants fail to repair or remedy (at Volkswagen’s expense)a confirmed mechanical failure or malfunction covered by the Extended Emissions Warranty and associated with the Approved Emissions Modification or Certified Emissions Repair(a “Warrantable Failure”) after the Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee physically presents the Modified or Repaired Vehicle to a Dealer for repair of the Warrantable Failure and:

a. the Warrantable Failure is unable to be remedied after making four(4) separate service visits for the same Warrantable Failure during the Reoffer Period; or

b. the Modified or Repaired Vehicle with the Warrantable Failure is out of service due to the Warrantable Failure for a cumulative total of 30 days during the Reoffer Period. For avoidance of doubt, a Modified or Repaired Vehicle shall not be deemed “out of service” when, after diagnosing the Warrantable Failure, the Dealer returns or tenders the Modified or Repaired Vehicle to the customer while he Modified or Repaired Vehicle remains Operable.

M. If any such consumer is entitled to elect and elects a Buyback or Lease Termination pursuant to Subsection L, the owner or lessee shall receive the Consumer Payments that he or she would have received under a Buyback or Lease Termination at the time the Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee first requested the Approved Emissions Modification, less any Consumer Payments already received; or in the case of a Certified Emissions Repair, the Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee shall receive the Generation 2 Buyback Restitution or Generation 2 Lessee Restitution payments, less any Consumer Payments made, with the exception of any Generation 2 Participation Payments. No Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee shall receive double recovery of any portion of any Consumer Payment.


https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/3227_ftc_30l_order_executed.pdf

I FOUND IT!! From this forum, even!! I just had to Google the right words

NOW 18months was up in September of 2020, after my car had been in the shop 3 times and already for 1 month. We're past 18months now. It's all speculative but what do all of you folks think? Think I'm screwed on that language SINCE I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT EXISTED or do you think I have a shot?
 

Zawurah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Location
The Morning Star
TDI
3.0
The settlement does not impose a deadline of when a lemon buyback can be requested. The only conditon is the buyback requirements must be reached during the first 18 months.

Sept 2020 was only 4 months ago.

Your vehicle is still broken. Now is definitely the time to start bugging them before they waste more money on loaner vehicles and more repairs.

You could inform the dealership to stop working on the vehicle and not to do any more repairs, as you are now having it bought back instead.

If they suddenly get your car "fixed", you could refuse to pick it up (although give back the awful rental). Because once you have the working vehicle in hand, it's harder to push for a buyback.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
The settlement does not impose a deadline of when a lemon buyback can be requested. The only conditon is the buyback requirements must be reached during the first 18 months.

Sept 2020 was only 4 months ago.

Your vehicle is still broken. Now is definitely the time to start bugging them before they waste more money on loaner vehicles and more repairs.

You could inform the dealership to stop working on the vehicle and not to do any more repairs, as you are now having it bought back instead.

If they suddenly get your car "fixed", you could refuse to pick it up (although give back the awful rental). Because once you have the working vehicle in hand, it's harder to push for a buyback.
Damn buddy, I'm getting excited to go sit down with the lawyer Friday. After I started going thru everything, doing the math on the months, my mind has been racing. I'm terrified and excited at the same time. Like I've stated before, I don't want anything I'm not owed, I'm not after a payday, I just want my situation resolved NOW. My family is ready to move the hell on! Thanks for the info!

Also, is there anything you can point me to in the legal wording that says that there's no deadline on the buyback, just the conditions being met? I have a lot of reading to do on my own but if you're familiar with it and can point me to the wording I'd appreciate it! Thank you again, everyone who has commented!
 

Zawurah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Location
The Morning Star
TDI
3.0
I am not a lawyer. Do not get tied up with math, racing, or being terrified.

Read the settlement and come to your own conclusions. It says nothing about a deadline of when to request a lemon buyback.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
I am not a lawyer. Do not get tied up with math, racing, or being terrified.

Read the settlement and come to your own conclusions. It says nothing about a deadline of when to request a lemon buyback.
You're right. Reading that bit carefully it says nothing about you having to request it or it being complete in 18mos, just those conditions applying withing 18months. It has been a total of 3 times, and withing that 18months it was out for well over 30days. I think I have a good case here. Thank you again!
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
Finally got ahold of the RCM Supervisor. He said the CR&R department had now reached a decision, NO BUYBACK but they would offer me some "trade-in credit " if I wanted to trade it in lol. Thanks to the info you guys have provided and pointed me to I was able to quote from the legal paperwork I had printed out. He wasn't very amused, asked me to email them to him and he would talk to the CR&R Dept. I have a new appointment with a lawyer scheduled for 10am tomorrow regardless.

I'll keep everyone posted, and a sincere THANK YOU to everyone for helping me out so far. Thank you!!!
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
So I'm being told NO because my car wasn't a CPO. Nowhere in the paperwork does it say only CPOs are eligible. Now I'm being told I'm not an eligible owner under the 18months/18000 miles because that offer was only extended to owners at the time of the settlement. I see no language that says that but the RCM Supervisor is sending me the paperwork they're getting that info from.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
What is the current situation on the car, are they waiting for a part?
They are fiddling with glow plugs. They were waiting 2 days on ANOTHER glow plug connector for cylinder 5. Didn't change anything. QTM told the tech to check continuity between ECM and GP Comnectors. That lead them to ask me, "hey this ecm looks awfully shiny and the retaining bolts are different than normal. Have you changed the ECM recently?" To which I replies YES, it has been changed, by YOU GUYS. That seems to have been the nail in the coffin now the RCM dpt. Is working on transferring the car to another service department.
 

ticaf

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Location
US Mid-Atlantic
TDI
Stock 2015 Golf SW S Manual TDI
LOL, looks like different techs working on your car, probably because nobody knows how to work those older TDIs. Going to a different dealership is a good idea.
Hey, if they keep replacing everything with new parts, may not be a bad deal.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
LOL, looks like different techs working on your car, probably because nobody knows how to work those older TDIs. Going to a different dealership is a good idea.
Hey, if they keep replacing everything with new parts, may not be a bad deal.
I believe it is the same tech, I KNOW it's the same advisor. She did explain why they didn't catch it and it's completely understandable, I feel bad for even making a thing of it, but it really just isn't okay at this point in the game. Wednesday marks 5 months they've had my car.

As far as getting my car back, I'm perfectly fine with that. I love my Touareg and it does have a new mostly everything haha.
 

ticaf

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Location
US Mid-Atlantic
TDI
Stock 2015 Golf SW S Manual TDI
I get what you feel, but they gave you a loaner (brand new car) that you drive worry free, at their expense. And I believe they are honestly trying to fix your car, just they are not very good at it. If it was me, I would keep my stress level low and wait until they fix it or they give up, cut their losses and make you a buyback offer. Do not settle for tradin credit.
then I would sell that car while it's worth something.
 

Zawurah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Location
The Morning Star
TDI
3.0
The settlement says the emission warranty is fully transferred to subsequent owners.

The CPO bit is nonsense. What did the lawyer say?

Find the part of the settlement, that says disputes over the settlement are to be resolved in favor of the car owner (in favor of you).
 

frey

Active member
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Location
Iowa
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen
Clearly a failure of diagnosis. How can you fix something if you don't understand the primary cause of the problem? Is it the software or the hardware? From your description, sounds like a software problem, triggered by who knows what. Stray voltage on a circuit board, bad ground or connection not detected by the onboard diagnostics? So many possibilities in an over-engineered car with technicians trained to only fix fault codes. A team of software engineers wrote the program that is killing basic functions and if VW cared about fixing the car, they would look to the engineers to find the faults in the coding. Since there are probably only a small percentage of tdis with your problem they aren't interested in diverting resources for this. Insist on a buyback in writing, certified mail. My guess is they will haul the car to the crusher and cut you a check.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
The settlement says the emission warranty is fully transferred to subsequent owners.

The CPO bit is nonsense. What did the lawyer say?

Find the part of the settlement, that says disputes over the settlement are to be resolved in favor of the car owner (in favor of you).
"Thank you for speaking with me today on your case. After speaking with you I wanted to send you the language from the settlement.

The language from the relevant provision in Appendix A, paragraph 9.2 is below.

Defendants must reoffer and provide a Buyback or Lease Termination to any Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee of a Modified Vehicle (or in the case of an Approved Emissions Modification that qualifies as an Emissions Compliant Recall, must offer a Buyback or Lease Termination in the first instance) in the event that, during the 18 months or 18,000 miles following the completion of the Approved Emissions Modification (the “Reoffer Period”), Defendants fail to repair or remedy a confirmed mechanical failure or malfunction covered by the Warranty and associated with the Approved Emissions Modification or Emissions Compliant Recall (a “Warrantable Failure”) after the Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee physically presents the Modified Vehicle to a dealer for repair of the Warrantable Failure; and (1) the Warrantable Failure is unable to be remedied after making four separate service visits for the same Warrantable Failure during the Reoffer Period; or (2) the Modified Vehicle with the Warrantable Failure is out of service due to the Warrantable Failure for a cumulative total of 30 Days during the Reoffer Period. (For avoidance of doubt, a Modified Vehicle shall not be deemed “out of service” when, after diagnosing the Warrantable Failure, the dealer returns or tenders the Modified Vehicle to the customer while the dealer awaits necessary parts for the Warrantable Failure, and the Modified Vehicle remains Operable.)


I will continue to follow up with you by no later than Monday. Currently I am working with our Field team to see if we can get the vehicle transferred to"....

My reply:

"Ya, that's from the FTC Amended Second Partial Stipulated Order for Permanent Injunction and Monetary Judgement. Nowhere in that language does it say only owners at the time of settlement. An "Eligible Owner" is defined differently than "Original Owner"."
 

Zawurah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Location
The Morning Star
TDI
3.0
The consumer settlement notice:
https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_3L_Gen1_SubGen1_Final.pdf

From page 7:
Vehicles receiving an approved emissions modification will also receive an extended emissions warranty covering the emissions system of the modified vehicle which includes a Lemon Law-type remedy to protect against the possibility that the modification causes subsequent service problems.
From page 8:
Should you ever sell the vehicle, this warranty extension is fully transferable to subsequent owners.
And most importantly, from page 9:
Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer.

VW then gives contradicting statements of:
  • "CPO is required for lemon law warranty"
  • "Warranty coverage is not fully transferrable, because the lemon law portion of warranty does not transfer. But the rest of the warranty does, which is why we are still trying to fix your lemon"
They have no legs to stand on and it shows.
 
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NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
I get what you feel, but they gave you a loaner (brand new car) that you drive worry free, at their expense. And I believe they are honestly trying to fix your car, just they are not very good at it. If it was me, I would keep my stress level low and wait until they fix it or they give up, cut their losses and make you a buyback offer. Do not settle for tradin credit.
then I would sell that car while it's worth something.
I'm definitely not taking a trade allowance. I was told it's 13% so from my understanding that would be less than $1000. Trade in on a 2010 Touareg is nothing, add 13% of nothing and...

As far as the loaner, you're kind of right, and I try to keep that attitude (been in it 4 months or 1/3rd of a year). Believe me, if you were in one this long it would get to you.

Right now I'm prepared to continue playing the long game, someone will cry uncle eventually. If they don't want to buy back my car right now, we'll see how they feel after another month of rental fees and parts/labor. Today they are $4,166 on rental car fees. The ECM was ~$4800, the original DEF work was $700, plus a turbo, plus the entire fuel system, plus a brand new DPF, plus 2 glow plugs and connectors, plus a MAF and air filter, plus 2 nox sensors....
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
Clearly a failure of diagnosis. How can you fix something if you don't understand the primary cause of the problem? Is it the software or the hardware? From your description, sounds like a software problem, triggered by who knows what. Stray voltage on a circuit board, bad ground or connection not detected by the onboard diagnostics? So many possibilities in an over-engineered car with technicians trained to only fix fault codes. A team of software engineers wrote the program that is killing basic functions and if VW cared about fixing the car, they would look to the engineers to find the faults in the coding. Since there are probably only a small percentage of tdis with your problem they aren't interested in diverting resources for this. Insist on a buyback in writing, certified mail. My guess is they will haul the car to the crusher and cut you a check.
Yep you're right. No one knows *** is going on w the car. I remember back in early November when a Turbo was gonna fix everything. It didn't get installed til early-Mid December but when it did the original ENGINE FAULT WORKSHOP code came back.

As far as a Buyback, the more I push with the FTC paperwork the more they seem to be sliiiightly backing up. In fact, after demanding a buyback due to the FTC language, now all of a sudden my car is getting moved to another location like I asked for back in November. We'll, They're "attempting" anyway.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
The consumer settlement notice:
https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_3L_Gen1_SubGen1_Final.pdf

From page 7:


From page 8:


And most importantly, from page 9:



VW then gives contradicting statements of:
  • "CPO is required for lemon law warranty"
  • "Warranty coverage is not fully transferrable, because the lemon law portion of warranty does not transfer. But the rest of the warranty does, which is why we are still trying to fix your lemon"
I actually have the hard copy of that book! For the CPO bit, I've searched the documents up and down, no mention of ANYTHING about CPO, in fact the only time the word "certified" is used in the FTC documents is in the context of "certified emissions modification/repair". I'm not sure if they're saying "hey you're not entitled to a buyback, but if it was a CPO we might have done it anyway " or if they are saying I'm not eligible for a buyback on the grounds that it isn't a CPO. That former is okay, the latter is 100% wrong. Also, you can't certify a 10 year old car, or a 9year old car when I bought it. That would make no sense "18 months or 18,000 miles after the approved emissions modification, UNLESS IT'S NOT A CPO!"


The Amended Second Partial Stipulated Order for Permanent Injunction and Monetary Judgement is the document that details the TDI Lemon Law buyback situation. Section XV, subsection L. Pretty clear. But I think the reason they're not happy about a buyback is because of Subsection M which states:

"If any such consumer is entitled to elect and elects a Buyback or Lease
Termination pursuant to Subsection L, the owner or lessee shall receive the Consumer Payments
that he or she would have received under a Buyback or Lease Termination at the time the
Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee first requested the Approved Emissions Modification"

Using the documents provided on the FTCs website the buyback value of my Touareg would be $27,900-$33,400 minus the tax and mileage amounts that I worked up to be ~$4500. I honestly feel a little uncomfortable about that because that would mean I would double my money from this, and that just doesn't seem right. The part of subsection M that really throws me though is just after:

"less any Consumer Payments already received "

My Touareg was clearly an original buyback ,it went in and got the emissions modification and then was resold. So as far as that terminology it seems like I would be entitled to that buyback amount, minus the original buyback amount, so basically nothing.

Oh and for the warranty, this paperwork states clearly that the warranty is tied to the car and has nothing to do with an owner so anyone who owns it in its 4years/48000miles receives the warranty.
 

ticaf

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Location
US Mid-Atlantic
TDI
Stock 2015 Golf SW S Manual TDI
As long as parts are available to repair your vehicle, there is no reason for them to offer you a buy back, not to mention, what shall be the value of this buyback? VW did not sell you that car, and they did not dieselgate you, because you bought the car after it was 'fixed' to be compliant, so I assume you are not an 'eligible' owner. The RCM is realizing that dealership is not competent with TDIs, that's why they are trying somewhere else. By the end of this, you'll have so many new parts that it would have been worth it.
If you lawyer, you need to find somebody who are willing to read through the extended emissions warranty, and understand all the nuances.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
As long as parts are available to repair your vehicle, there is no reason for them to offer you a buy back, not to mention, what shall be the value of this buyback? VW did not sell you that car, and they did not dieselgate you, because you bought the car after it was 'fixed' to be compliant, so I assume you are not an 'eligible' owner. The RCM is realizing that dealership is not competent with TDIs, that's why they are trying somewhere else. By the end of this, you'll have so many new parts that it would have been worth it.
If you lawyer, you need to find somebody who are willing to read through the extended emissions warranty, and understand all the nuances.
The value of the buyback is outlined in the settlement paperwork. "The VW 3L Settlement Notice" defines an eligible owner as:

5. I bought my vehicle after September 18, 2015. Am I a Class Member?
If you acquired an Eligible Vehicle after September 18, 2015 and still own it, you are a Class Member.
While you continue to own it, you are an Eligible Owner, unless you bought from an Eligible Lessee, in
which case you are an Eligible Lessee.

Also forgot to mention, I have sought the counsel of the "Class Counsel" named in the paperwork. That was late yesterday so I don't expect to hear anything until next week.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
Also have to mention, at what point is it no longer okay? At what point do you say I PURCHASED AND PAY INSURANCE ON AN AWD, LUXURY, DIESEL SUV AND INSTEAD I AM DRIVING A BASE MODEL RAV 4. Is 5 months too long? Is 7 months? What about 12 months? Is that okay? 24 months? At what point is it no longer okay?
 

ticaf

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Location
US Mid-Atlantic
TDI
Stock 2015 Golf SW S Manual TDI
Also have to mention, at what point is it no longer okay? At what point do you say I PURCHASED AND PAY INSURANCE ON AN AWD, LUXURY, DIESEL SUV AND INSTEAD I AM DRIVING A BASE MODEL RAV 4. Is 5 months too long? Is 7 months? What about 12 months? Is that okay? 24 months? At what point is it no longer okay?
Well, first of, you can try and ask for an 'equivalent' rental vehicle. But a brand new luxury vehicle is not going to be aquivalent to a 10year old car. Also, you are putting wear and tear on the rental car, not your own vehicle. I personally think it is fair, but it cost you nothing to ask for a better rental.
Remember that they are losing money on this, maybe more than what the car is worth to 'HELP' you out. If you bring that to court, it is not clear a judge would think they are trying to take advantage of you. They are already deep into this, that's why they are still trying to fix it.
 

Zawurah

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Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Location
The Morning Star
TDI
3.0
The vehicle repurchase price given to the original owner was separate from the $5-10K restitution. So about $5-10K would be removed from the lemon buyback value (or just calculate the vehicle buyback without the restitution portion). The subsection M language may refer to payments already made to the owner. You (the owner and consumer) have been paid nothing. Buyback minus nothing = buyback. But maybe they intended "consumer payments" to describe "all payments ever made for the vehicle"? But if that was true, then instead of the potentially ambiguous singular tense "consumer payments" why not just say "payments ever made for the vehicle" or "payments made to the vehicle consumers"? It would seem that at any given time the only consumer is the owner at that time, and past owners are no longer a consumer. They could stand on their ambiguity to claim your lemon buyback is zero since the amount is less than what they already paid out to the prior owner, but so far they have not. But then there is that "Conflicts concerning the lemon warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer." So their own ambiguous wording is against them.


If they pay out the lemon settlement amount, VW would be losing a decent chunk of money because they already bought it back once and resold it for less than the first buyback. But why did VW resell it while the lemon buyback period was still in effect? They even admitted it was not worth fixing the gen 1 3.0 TDI's because of the cost complexity (hence why a buyback was only offered on the gen 1). So they knew exactly what they were getting into by fixing and reselling, and now they don't want to be accountable when their decision bites them.

Any 10 year old lemon would have similarly high buyback, since they go on the purchase price minus depreciation. They rightfully do not base lemon buyback on the current resale value -- which today is very low for these dirty TDI's and their tainted reputation. Who wants to buy a diesel that constantly breaks and the dealerships cannot reliably fix? Anyone? 😕
 
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KITEWAGON

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Location
Seacoast, NH
TDI
2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
Great call on contacting the class action lawyer in terms of settlement. I bet that they will get this sorted for you.
 

NeedyTouareg

Active member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Location
Guntersville, AL
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI V6
Well, first of, you can try and ask for an 'equivalent' rental vehicle. But a brand new luxury vehicle is not going to be aquivalent to a 10year old car. Also, you are putting wear and tear on the rental car, not your own vehicle. I personally think it is fair, but it cost you nothing to ask for a better rental.
Remember that they are losing money on this, maybe more than what the car is worth to 'HELP' you out. If you bring that to court, it is not clear a judge would think they are trying to take advantage of you. They are already deep into this, that's why they are still trying to fix it.
I must admit I am exhausted from this whole situation so if I've come across as rude or anything, my b! To clear up some of this, this IS my 2nd rental. My first was a convertible mustang, I'm not sure if I've gotten into the whole story here. But this is my "comparable" SUV. No one claimed it was comparable I just asked for something more like my car and this is what I ended up with. And believe me, my first loaner car I got from them back when they replaced the ECM was a base Versa, I didn't mind at all! I was in it a few weeks, zipped around town at 35mpg, no big deal. My argument about my loaner is that this vehicle is clearly what I drive now. It's my vehicle for the foreseeable future. I'm not an uppity guy about any of this at all, I drive a cheap, 10 year old car haha.

But that doesn't change the fact that VW cheated, they got caught, and now they are legally obligated to provide me this warranty. They are legally obligated to provide me a loaner for any repairs lasting longer than 3hrs. And when we get down to it, this is nothing remotely close to the car I purchased.

As far as what my car is worth compared to what they've spent, they've way past the value of the car just with the rental fees, the ECM, and the DEF tank/heater/injector. I absolutely do not think anyone is trying to take advantage of me, I've never felt that the service department was "out to get me" or anything. And in return I have been above and beyond kind and patient. Even after on Sept 6th or so when I asked them to do an oil change for me while they had it, I picked up on Sept 14th and the oil change hadn't been done and they told me it would be over an hr before they could get it. Even after I made it almost home and the same problem I originally had popped back up and I had to turn around and bring it back. Even after I went another 15 days without hearing a word from them after the vehicle was returned. Even after they told me on Oct 6th there was a new problem and it took them til Oct 13th to figure out they were going to replace the DPF. Even when I went another 14 days without hearing a word. Even when that DPF supposedly arrived on the 27th and I was told it would be ready that evening. Even when on Nov 2nd I found out the DPF had not been replaced yet due to a "rusted bolt". Even when on Nov 4th they told me the DPF didn't fix the issue and they were ordering a turbo. Even when I didn't hear a word from them until I contacted them on Nov 16th just to hear "all the parts arrived Friday, Nov 13th, the tech will get started once he finishes the car he's working on, you should be ready in the next few days". Even when on Nov 23rd and 24th I hadn't heard a word and my emails went unresponded. Even when I opened a case with the RCM Dept. Even when on Nov 27th they told me the tech was working on another turbo and he'd get to mine later, I was angry, but I didn't think anyone was trying to "get me". Even when service told the RCM dept they would have the car done on 12-1 yet they didn't even START on it until 12-4 after I made complaints with VW and the Corporate side of the auto group. Even when the SERVICE MANAGER HIMSELF told me that before I picked my car up on Sept 14th, the HPFP was NOT replaced, but the in tank pump instead, even tho the advisor had specifically told me they replaced the HPFP and lines but NOT injectors. Even after 12-8, almost 1 month since it arrived, when the turbo did not fix the issue and the service manager who I had been dealing with directly ghosted me and to this day has never answered or returned another call from me. And honestly not much at all has happened since 12-8, over a month ago. They replaced the MAF and air filter and have played with glow plugs 2 and 5. That's literally it. Even still, I don't think anyone is out to get me. As far as "HELPING" me out... with friends like these, yknow? Lol. But in all seriousness no one is HELPING ME OUT, they're complying with their court appointed punishment of honoring the extended emissions warranty.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
... None :S
... At what point do you say I PURCHASED AND PAY INSURANCE ON AN AWD, LUXURY, DIESEL SUV AND INSTEAD I AM DRIVING A BASE MODEL RAV 4. Is 5 months too long? Is 7 months? What about 12 months? Is that okay? 24 months? At what point is it no longer okay?
I'd have given them one week, after which I'd have demanded something equivalent. At the least they should have put you in a Lexus RX, or another Touareg.

The times I've taken my used, CPO Cadillac ELR in for service they gave me an XT5 (meh) and CT6 (nice) loaner. If they had tried to put me in a Sonic I would have asked if they were out of their minds.

-J
 
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