Ultimate Daily Driver: 4Motion TDI B5.5 Wagon 6MT

[MEgearhead]

Are you tracing an actual harness, or going by a schematic? The BHW wiring diagram I have shows some differences.

T15a pin 11 is from A89 (connection 2 in the instrument harness) to T94 pin 87 on the ECU. A89 is the switched side of the normally closed contact of the brake switch (F) which gets it's power from S13.

T15a pin 12 is from A18 (connection in the instrument harness) to T94 pin 65 on the ECU. A18 is the switched side of the normally open contact of the brake switch (F47) which is powered from A15.

T10e pin 8 is from F25 (connection 1 in the engine harness) to A15 in the instrument harness. This is necessary to power brake switch F47, the cruise clutch switch (if you wired it from the brake switch as most do), the cruise switch, and the fan after-run relay.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

4/4 Update:

Sorry no pictures yet, but received my ECU on Friday. I went with the Malone Stage 2. Immo delete, dynamic idle, dynamic egr. Should yield good power and torque figures 174whp and 305wtq. according to the website.

I only swapped pin-3 t10e (orange plug) to pin-8 t10b (black plug) Trigger for fuel pump relay. I also swapped the TDI accelerator pedal over. I bridged the fuel feed and return line from the v6 lines rather than swapping the Tdi lines out per multiple recommendations all while retaining the v6 fuel pump in tank (even better!)

I jumped the fuel pump straight to battery power to drain the gasoline from the tank. luckily there was only about 5 gallons or so in it. Filled up the tank with about 5 gallons diesel and the engine with some fresh Rotella t6 5w-40.

Wired up the clutch switch to Relay 53- brown/white wire needed a ground. So used the clutch switch pig tail to make it a switched ground.

Went to crank, battery was dead or close to.

Left it on the charger overnight and was able to crank it over for a few minutes until the fuel system was bled. It turned over and RUNS! Wish I could attach videos here. At this time don't feel like uploading to YouTube, but maybe I could be convinced! Only have the one CEL up on the dash. The whole front end is still off. I will connect to vagcom later this week to see what kind of errors I am running into.

Things left to do:
-Figure out cruise control signal and switch.
-Figure out how to go about converting VSS to ABS speed signal because of the o2x transmission
-Find o2x backup light plug so I can wire up the Tdi plug to it.
-New brakes all around
-Bleed clutch pedal
-Transmission fluid changeout
-Install front end
-fill with coolant and bleed system
-recharge AC system.

Hoping I don't run into to many more issues along the way. Big step though in this process, moving along pretty smoothly so far! (knock on wood)

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Was able to get the vag com connected.
Only had 2 engine fault codes.

P1672 Coolant Fan Control 1 This is because its not connected with the front clip yet

P1649 Missing Message from ABS controller. Now this one I've been trying to find and ABS pinout for the BHW but I cant seem to find it. Will this controller need to be adapted or recoded in some way. I was trying to go through to see if there was any ABS pins on the BHW harness but couldnt seem to locate them. If anyone knows anything differently That would be great!

 

[caffeine]

Was able to get the vag com connected.
Only had 2 engine fault codes.

P1672 Coolant Fan Control 1 This is because its not connected with the front clip yet

P1649 Missing Message from ABS controller. Now this one I've been trying to find and ABS pinout for the BHW but I cant seem to find it. Will this controller need to be adapted or recoded in some way. I was trying to go through to see if there was any ABS pins on the BHW harness but couldnt seem to locate them. If anyone knows anything differently That would be great!

I believe all the communication between ECU and ABS module happens over CAN bus. The ABS controller needs to be recorded for a manual transmission, and that coding will only be possible if the ECU is programmed correctly. Hopefully your tuner knew which controller you have?

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

I believe all the communication between ECU and ABS module happens over CAN bus. The ABS controller needs to be recorded for a manual transmission, and that coding will only be possible if the ECU is programmed correctly. Hopefully your tuner knew which controller you have?

Well I did state that it was auto to manual transmission conversion. Ill have to reach out to them.

 

[zzdiesel]

How is the car coming along?

 

[Yetii]

Just wanted to come in and say awesome build. I still have a long awaited car journal I need to start for my manual swapped B5 Passat. Can’t wait to see more.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Hello everyone. Sorry got held up with posting! I don't have much pics to share with you all yet. We have made the decision to move back to MN so lots of packing up. I hope to drive this car back and see what kind of mpg and rpm it'll run for the 350miles.

I havent made too much more progress on the car from the list above.

What I have accomplished is getting the front end on. I also did take it on a test drive around the block. Car would stall out when coming to a stop. I also had a hard time cranking over. Found that the fuel line I was using wasn't rated for under hood use. There was air leaking into my fuel system. Another problem I developed was lots of smoke. I think I may have mitigated it, as before in the sedan the egr was bypassed so I believe to have a bad egr. I have bypassed for now. When I went to test drive I couldn't get the vehicle into any gear while the car was running. I would have to shut it off and put it in gear and pressing the clutch in didnt do anything. I believe the clutch master to have failed. The clutch slave is brand new from USP. After removing the clutch master I believe that to be the issue with my stalling problem.

So now with my resolved fuel line problem The car takes a few cranks to turn over I believe with the "T" there is some fuel bleeding back into the tank and takes a few cranks to start up. Im going to install check valves pre "T" on the lines so there no flow goin back so that should help with a quicker start up.

Im still working on how get signal from the abs module for communication and also for the speed signal. This is all for now. I will try and get some pictures going next time I work on it!

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Update 5/8
I am having clutch engagement issues. More than likely will have to take the transmission off to inspect to see what obstructions I'm running into. New clutch master and new slave and vacuum bled so its something internal unfortunatly. Hopefully its something easy like a clutch fork issue.

 

[vwztips]

Tip from the been there done that crowd. You will need the fan control harness and relay circuit from donor car. The V6 and 4 cylinder have different set ups. The fan harness is stand alone so you can pull it out complete without cutting wires.

 

[caffeine]

Tip from the been there done that crowd. You will need the fan control harness and relay circuit from donor car. The V6 and 4 cylinder have different set ups. The fan harness is stand alone so you can pull it out complete without cutting wires.

I'm curious, if the fan harness is standalone, why does it need to be changed? I'm diesel swapping an Allroad, and was planning on just leaving the factory Allroad fan control setup. I'm aware that they're different, but that by itself is not reason to swap it out.

 

[oilhammer]

I think it has to do with the ECU's ability to control it. We never had TDI B5s here with Climatronic, so maybe those would have been arranged differently.

 

[caffeine]

I think it has to do with the ECU's ability to control it. We never had TDI B5s here with Climatronic, so maybe those would have been arranged differently.

Looking at my wiring diagrams, the control scheme between ECU and climate control unit seem to be basically the same.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Tip from the been there done that crowd. You will need the fan control harness and relay circuit from donor car. The V6 and 4 cylinder have different set ups. The fan harness is stand alone so you can pull it out complete without cutting wires.

Thank god I pulled that harness before the car literally got hauled off to scrap today!

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Looking at my wiring diagrams, the control scheme between ECU and climate control unit seem to be basically the same.

Yes and no, but on the v6 the radiator temp sensor plug is on the core support. While the tdi radiator temp sensor plug is on that seperate fan harness. So the harness is needed to get the electrically controlled fan to work.

 

[caffeine]

Yes and no, but on the v6 the radiator temp sensor plug is on the core support. While the tdi radiator temp sensor plug is on that seperate fan harness. So the harness is needed to get the electrically controlled fan to work.

Interesting. On my Allroad, I'm pretty sure the fan switch plug is part of the fan harness; I just need to move it to the other side of the rad support, because on the 2.7TT, the lower rad hose, where the switch is located, is on the passenger's side.

 

[MEgearhead]

I am having clutch engagement issues. More than likely will have to take the transmission off to inspect to see what obstructions I'm running into. New clutch master and new slave and vacuum bled so its something internal unfortunatly. Hopefully its something easy like a clutch fork issue.

Clutch engagement or disengagement issue? The following might apply if the clutch pedal seems soft and doesn't disengage the clutch. Did you happen to bleed the clutch system with the front end significantly higher than the rear? The bleeder on the slave cylinder is at the rear of the cylinder. So, if the front end is significantly higher than the rear, air gets trapped at the front of the slave cylinder despite the best bleeding efforts.

We did our swap with only the front up on jack stands. The clutch would not disengage with full pedal travel even after bleeding several times with a bladder type pressure bleeder. After bleeding with the car level the clutch worked perfectly. I was pulling my hair out, replaced the slave cylinder, pulled the gearbox out, checked everything twice etc.

 

[Land_o]

I am a little late to the party but congratulations on the first start up. Just tried to turn mine over today for the first time to find a dead battery as well. And best of luck with clutch issues.

I've got a starter question and you might be the perfect person to ask. For wiring the starter you have main power from the battery + power line from the alternator both bolted to the starter. Then signal wire also coming from the alternator? Still wondering about the signal wire. And a separate ground. Is that how yours is wired up?

 

[caffeine]

I am a little late to the party but congratulations on the first start up. Just tried to turn mine over today for the first time to find a dead battery as well. And best of luck with clutch issues.

I've got a starter question and you might be the perfect person to ask. For wiring the starter you have main power from the battery + power line from the alternator both bolted to the starter. Then signal wire also coming from the alternator? Still wondering about the signal wire. And a separate ground. Is that how yours is wired up?

What do you mean signal wire from the alternator? The solenoid wire goes to a separate spade terminal on the starter and comes from one of the connectors in the plenum box. The starter grounds through the engine block, then through a ground strap to the chassis (ground strap goes between the right frame rail and the right side engine mount bracket).

 

[Land_o]

What do you mean signal wire from the alternator? The solenoid wire goes to a separate spade terminal on the starter and comes from one of the connectors in the plenum box. The starter grounds through the engine block, then through a ground strap to the chassis (ground strap goes between the right frame rail and the right side engine mount bracket).

Ahh well I clearly have some more reading to do. I believe the starter I have has an extra ground because of grounding issues not sure exactly.
Appreciate the help

 

[Mozambiquer]

I am a little late to the party but congratulations on the first start up. Just tried to turn mine over today for the first time to find a dead battery as well. And best of luck with clutch issues.

I've got a starter question and you might be the perfect person to ask. For wiring the starter you have main power from the battery + power line from the alternator both bolted to the starter. Then signal wire also coming from the alternator? Still wondering about the signal wire. And a separate ground. Is that how yours is wired up?

The starter has a couple of wires going to it. The battery positive terminal of the solenoid has the battery wire and the alternator main wire, then the small wire that goes to the start terminal on the solenoid. The ground attaches to the engine mount bracket and frame just forward of the starter.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Sorry I've really neglected this thread. We have moved back to Minnesota (thank goodness) but haven't had much time to work on it.

Lol @MEgearhead I feel like I was in the same boat as you with the clutch issue. I ended up putting a new clutch master in and manually bled it with just the front end jacked up instead of using the pressure bleeder it definitely had some air bubble in it doing it this way. I also changed out the gear oil while I was under there and found to be less than a quart in the case.... not good, glad I didn't drive it much, hopefully I didn't damage anything to heavily.

@caffeine @vwztips @oilhammer The AC fan also works with the factory 02 glx v6 body harness. When I jumped the compressor and the high pressure side got to its high limit and switch would engage the fan. So Im glad that all works without swapping over BHW fan harness, but I still may have to as the lower radiator fan temp sensor still has nothing going to it so it will not kick on if its temp related...

I still experience the ABS module no communication as well as the ABS no speed signal from the O2X transmission. Havent dug into these any further.

My newest problem is my AC compressor isn't engaging with the climatronic unit. When I jump the compressor to 12v it kicks on. I vacuumed the system and recharged it and now blows ICE COLD, but it has to be jumped, so Id love to figure this recent issue out. I assume these AC compressors cylce on and off while driving? So running it constantly on while driving could potentially harm it? Recent threads I've been reading say its the Malone tune that's not allowing climatronic to become active.... since the switch power for the compressor relay is controlled by the ECU. All this wont end stop me from driving this thing, but as close to oem as possible would be the ultimate goal. Lots of little quirks to work through yet a lot of it seems to be going back to tune related items... Im glad to find out some of these issues now rather than later.

Still have yet to register the vehicle to drive it around more than just a few blocks. I really wanna see what this thing can do for MPG during daily commuting.

 

[MEgearhead]

I believe the compressor stays engaged whenever it is called for unless a safety holds it off. The compressor has an unloader that varys its displacement and consequently is capacity. I'll check the manual later today or tomorrow.

 

[J_dude]

The compressor has an unloader that varys its displacement and consequently is capacity.

Correct.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

I believe the compressor stays engaged whenever it is called for unless a safety holds it off. The compressor has an unloader that varys its displacement and consequently is capacity. I'll check the manual later today or tomorrow.

So running a 12v fused and relayed switch would probably cause premature failure in the compressor over time, but a possible option...

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

This thread talks about the same issue that Im experiencing with the AC issue on Malones swap tune.

How Did Others Get A/C To Work on BHW Swap?

I've been driving my TDI-swapped Audi A4 for a few weeks now. It's awesome, but the lack of A/C has been annoying. So I finally got my A/C system charged today... and nothing. The compressor doesn't seem to be cycling on/off. My guess is the Climatronic module isn't doing its job for whatever...

forums.tdiclub.com

 

[Matt-98AHU]

This thread talks about the same issue that Im experiencing with the AC issue on Malones swap tune.

How Did Others Get A/C To Work on BHW Swap?

I've been driving my TDI-swapped Audi A4 for a few weeks now. It's awesome, but the lack of A/C has been annoying. So I finally got my A/C system charged today... and nothing. The compressor doesn't seem to be cycling on/off. My guess is the Climatronic module isn't doing its job for whatever...

forums.tdiclub.com

I wouldn't blame Malone on that one. The swap tune is to get compatibility with the manual transmission part, not necessarily climatronic. Additional tweaking will be needed for that. BHWs only came in cars equipped with the manual AC system, and clearly recoding them for the climatronic results in the ECU rejecting the coding until further 1s and 0s and changed deeper in the module. Same thing for the manual swap. The ECUs tend to reject the manual coding until the swap tune is loaded on them.

I would open a ticket with Malone, see if you can get Mike to help you out. He's a smart guy and is good at figuring out issues like this.

 

[caffeine]

I wouldn't blame Malone on that one. The swap tune is to get compatibility with the manual transmission part, not necessarily climatronic. Additional tweaking will be needed for that. BHWs only came in cars equipped with the manual AC system, and clearly recoding them for the climatronic results in the ECU rejecting the coding until further 1s and 0s and changed deeper in the module. Same thing for the manual swap. The ECUs tend to reject the manual coding until the swap tune is loaded on them.

I would open a ticket with Malone, see if you can get Mike to help you out. He's a smart guy and is good at figuring out issues like this.

Honestly it's kinda annoying that they're still using BEW-based tunes for BHW manual swaps when there's been lots of known issues with doing that over the years (see Audi swaps especially). It makes so much more sense to start with a BGW file; basically the manual version of the BHW in Europe with a DPF, and just tune out the DPF stuff.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

I wouldn't blame Malone on that one. The swap tune is to get compatibility with the manual transmission part, not necessarily climatronic. Additional tweaking will be needed for that. BHWs only came in cars equipped with the manual AC system, and clearly recoding them for the climatronic results in the ECU rejecting the coding until further 1s and 0s and changed deeper in the module. Same thing for the manual swap. The ECUs tend to reject the manual coding until the swap tune is loaded on them.

I would open a ticket with Malone, see if you can get Mike to help you out. He's a smart guy and is good at figuring out issues like this.

They don’t seem to want to do any more digging into any more issues then what they have already figured out unfortunately is my main consensus with previous experience. I’ll definitely try again.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Honestly it's kinda annoying that they're still using BEW-based tunes for BHW manual swaps when there's been lots of known issues with doing that over the years (see Audi swaps especially). It makes so much more sense to start with a BGW file; basically the manual version of the BHW in Europe with a DPF, and just tune out the DPF stuff.

Exactly! I’m surprise they haven’t tweaked or done any more tune updates with this. I feel like this BEW file used for BHW has been around for awhile as I’m not the first or the last to accomplish this swap and have this issues. I couldn’t imagine it would be too difficult to source out the BGW file, but then again I’m no expert when it comes to this so I’m very reliant on those that can do the tuning side of the Volkswagen world.