Ultimate Daily Driver: 4Motion TDI B5.5 Wagon 6MT

[oilhammer]

Which the BHWs and AWMs don't use. They use an old fashioned resistor set and a relay to control the cooling fan instead.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Which the BHWs and AWMs don't use. They use an old fashioned resistor set and a relay to control the cooling fan instead.

I wondered this. So Ill have to swap that over from the TDI donor as well? I did notice the difference when I was cleaning things up.

 

[oilhammer]

The whole HVAC system is different, if the GLX had Climatronic. All W8s had it, some GLXs had it.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

The whole HVAC system is different, if the GLX had Climatronic. All W8s had it, some GLXs had it.

Yes my GLX has climatronic. Ive heard that climatronic can be coded in the ecu.

 

[caffeine]

If it's anything like my Audi, the main concern is the type of air compressor, and the coding can be changed on the climate control module for whichever type you're using. The only other wire on my car to the engine from the HVAC system is the signal for heat, which will trigger the coolant glow plugs if equipped.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

If it's anything like my Audi, the main concern is the type of air compressor, and the coding can be changed on the climate control module for
whichever type you're using. The only other wire on my car to the engine from the HVAC system is the signal for heat, which will trigger the coolant glow plugs if equipped.

This is a quote from the W8>BHW build from another member. @stp359. Hopefully the tag works and he can chime in how he went about coding the ecu for climatronic.


"I did this swap in an 04 Passat wagon V6 4motion....About the A/C, it was plug and play as the V6 a/c compressor uses a clutch. I think the W8 works on a duty cycle. I just had to code the ECU for climatronic and it worked perfectly.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Pulling a few more people in hopefully they can help guide me through the swap if I get stuck. Seems to be a few guys have done this with the climatronic. @B4Ugo @Mikkijayne and @nitec

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, you should be able to use it. The B5's systems are fairly modular and not too terribly integrated. You'll notice no part of the BHW's engine harness goes to any of the HVAC stuff.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Yes, you should be able to use it. The B5's systems are fairly modular and not too terribly integrated. You'll notice no part of the BHW's engine harness goes to any of the HVAC stuff.

First time doing this on this generation. But yes was very surprise with how easy it was to pull the harness! Now coding things is something Im not familiar with. Ill have to figure that one out.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Looking more into to the vss vs abs to read speed. I came across another thread explaining this " i had to hook up a female pin in the abs module in the engine bay. pin #33 and run that wire to the cluster green connector pin #5. it was a brown and red wire." Does this seem like the correct way to go about it??

Also they mentioned cruise control being coded. " The ecu computes the gear (gangi) from the quotient N/V out of nmot_w and vfzg_w. To find the current gear, the ecu uses for each possible gear a min and a max quotient to compare the actual N/v against.
You have to update these quotients in order to map with the present gearbox/wheels. The thresholds are named NVQUOT1O (upper quotient for 1st gear), NVQUOT1U (lower quotient for 1st gear) up to NVQUOT6O, NVQUOT6U for 6th gear."
NVQUOT1O (0x013BC2)
NVQUOT1U (0x013BC4)
NVQUOT2O (0x013BC6)
NVQUOT2U (0x013BC8)
NVQUOT3O (0x013BCA)
NVQUOT3U (0x013BCC)
NVQUOT4O (0x013BCE)
NVQUOT4U (0x013BD0)
NVQUOT5O (0x013BD2)
NVQUOT5U (0x013BD4)
NVQUOT6O (0x013BD6)
NVQUOT6U (0x013BD8)

 

[caffeine]

Looking more into to the vss vs abs to read speed. I came across another thread explaining this " i had to hook up a female pin in the abs module in the engine bay. pin #33 and run that wire to the cluster green connector pin #5. it was a brown and red wire." Does this seem like the correct way to go about it??

Also they mentioned cruise control being coded. " The ecu computes the gear (gangi) from the quotient N/V out of nmot_w and vfzg_w. To find the current gear, the ecu uses for each possible gear a min and a max quotient to compare the actual N/v against.
You have to update these quotients in order to map with the present gearbox/wheels. The thresholds are named NVQUOT1O (upper quotient for 1st gear), NVQUOT1U (lower quotient for 1st gear) up to NVQUOT6O, NVQUOT6U for 6th gear."
NVQUOT1O (0x013BC2)
NVQUOT1U (0x013BC4)
NVQUOT2O (0x013BC6)
NVQUOT2U (0x013BC8)
NVQUOT3O (0x013BCA)
NVQUOT3U (0x013BCC)
NVQUOT4O (0x013BCE)
NVQUOT4U (0x013BD0)
NVQUOT5O (0x013BD2)
NVQUOT5U (0x013BD4)
NVQUOT6O (0x013BD6)
NVQUOT6U (0x013BD8)

That looks about right if you have ABS 5.7 in the shell. You should actually be able to wire that wire to the VSS signal wire on the engine harness, so that you can utilize the existing wiring instead of running a new wire through the firewall. Alternatively, the cluster can be programmed to get its speed reading from the ABS module over CAN, so if you do that, you can avoid adding any wiring. If you do it this way, there's also a parameter in the ECU that needs to be changed so that the ECU also gets its speed signal over CAN.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

That looks about right if you have ABS 5.7 in the shell. You should actually be able to wire that wire to the VSS signal wire on the engine harness, so that you can utilize the existing wiring instead of running a new wire through the firewall. Alternatively, the cluster can be programmed to get its speed reading from the ABS module over CAN, so if you do that, you can avoid adding any wiring. If you do it this way, there's also a parameter in the ECU that needs to be changed so that the ECU also gets its speed signal over CAN.

Thank you for that info! Im much more mechanically inclined than computer/ tuning based so hopefully can just changes the pins like I found. Otherwise will need my hand held a bit more when it comes to adjusting parameters.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

3/11 Update

Decided to work on swapping the manual pedal assembly over and making the o2x linkage work with the b5.5 box. I pulled the manual b5 shifter box and this pedal assembly from a junkyard earlier this fall when I was gathering parts.

Two boxes side by side. b5 box left 02x box right.

This thread let me know this was possible: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/779148-B5-01X-and-02X-Conversion-Thread

Essentially you are just swapping the guts over to the box. Removing the 6mm allens that hold the linkages to the shifter and the t-25 (4) that hold the shifter in the box.

FInal product. o2x linkage and shifter in b5 box.

\


Got started on installing it in the car. Bolts right up like factory. I love it when things work like this.

After installing plastics you must remove this square plastic piece or the shift boot surround wont click in.

Final product here. I need to find a 6 speed shift knob. An OEM matching wood grain 4motion one would be perfect!

Moved on to pedal assembly. Last time we will be seeing the 2 pedals! Doing this now with the engine out made it much easier when hooking up the clutch line.

Originally I was just going to cut the middle pedal and use the longer pin and add the clutch pedal to the existing pedal assembly like this link showed: https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/bhw-01e-6-speed-swap.378108/

However after getting the slave master bolted up to the existing pedal assembly I noticed it didn't have correct spot for the clutch switch. Which meant I needed to swap this whole assembly over. Quite a pain honestly because You have to loosen up the two torx bolts from the engine bay side that holds the brake booster to the pedal assembly. The top one I was able to use an extension and slightly bend down the rain tray, but the bottom one had very minimal access. So i created a access hole. I will use a grommet to plug it up after finishing.

They make these cars very easy to manual swap... Just cutting tip the off the brake reservoir and connecting hose to the clutch master.

3 Pedals are in! I wiil tackle the wiring up of cruise, and safety switch at a later date after I find the correct resources.

Cleaning up the o2x
Before....

After...

Cleaned the inside of the bellhousing. It was completely black and installed a new clutch release bearing.

I test fitted the o2x up to the BHW with the pilot bearing installed flush to the flat portion of the BHW crank.

It looks like I have about 1/2" of pilot bearing engagement. Will this be enough?

Tomorrow I will bolt up the Flywheel ,Clutch and PP. Hopefully the BHW starter will work with the 228mm setup.
If not Ill have to find another solution. Maybe a matching o2x starter from a b6 or b7 audi.

 

[caffeine]

I test fitted the o2x up to the BHW with the pilot bearing installed flush with the flat portion of the
It looks like I have about 1/2" of pilot bearing engagement. Will this be enough?

Tomorrow I will bolt up the Flywheel ,Clutch and PP. Hopefully the BHW starter will work with the 280mm.
If not Ill have to find another solution. Maybe a matching o2x starter from a b6 or b7 audi.

What clutch and flywheel are you using? If it's an OEM 240MM setup, you'll need a bellhousing spacer and a different starter. There is an aftermarket 240mm SMF that works with no bellhousing spacer with the stock starter. Otherwise, 228mm setups work without the spacer and with the stock starter. You might need to find a way to get more pilot bearing engagement if using a bellhousing spacer, otherwise I think it will be fine.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

What clutch and flywheel are you using? If it's an OEM 240MM setup, you'll need a bellhousing spacer and a different starter. There is an aftermarket 240mm SMF that works with no bellhousing spacer with the stock starter. Otherwise, 228mm setups work without the spacer and with the stock starter. You might need to find a way to get more pilot bearing engagement if using a bellhousing spacer, otherwise I think it will be fine.

I will be using the 228mm setup! So thats great news about the starter working! Not using a spacer currently!

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Update Sunday 3/12

Today was a very heavy progress day despite the lack of pictures!

Bolted up a 228mm SMF HD flywheel, clutch and Pressure Plate. Stated to hold around 315ftlbs.

Got the o2x bolted up. Utilized the Stock BHW dust shield fits perfect!

Stock BHW starter also bolts in!

Got the engine mounted up! Seemed like forever since I;ve had it out or maybe it was the space it was taking up in garage that was
getting to me Connected a few basic easy access items.

.

Under side shot of the o2x transmission bolted up utilizing the o2x brace. Fits like oem, shifter assembly and linkage also fits like oem. The o2x is also awesome because the factory triptronic driveshaft bolts in without any modifications.

Things to still figure out:
Exhaust - I think Ill utilize the stock downpipe and go into the dual pipes with a Y. Will the v6 mufflers be to restrictive?
Fuel lines - the v6 lines are bit short as they come into the engine bay... I think I may swap over the lines from the BHW
Fuel pump or bridge- I was told that I could bridge the return and feed fuel lines to slow the pressure down from the unleaded v6 fuel pump. Im also curious to see if anyone has swapped in the BHW lift pump to the v6 4motion tank.

Ill keep plugging away at the wiring and the other connections this week. I purchased a stage 2 tune, immo delete and auto to manual conversion from Malone. I have to send my ecu to them yet. Will try and ship this week.

 

[caffeine]

It would probably be ideal to swap over the BHW fuel hard lines, as they have a built-in fuel cooler as well.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

It would probably be ideal to swap over the BHW fuel hard lines, as they have a built-in fuel cooler as well.

From the tank all the way to the fuel filter then I assume. Have you heard of anyone swapping over the tdi lift pump into a standard tank?

 

[caffeine]

From the tank all the way to the fuel filter then I assume. Have you heard of anyone swapping over the tdi lift pump into a standard tank?

Yeah tank to where they hook up to the rubber lines on the engine. Deletes the fuel filter under the car as the diesel has the filter mounted on the engine.

I have heard of using the diesel lift pump, but I didn't want to chime in on that as a) I'm going to try that on my Allroad but haven't gotten that far yet, and b) I've read that some have used it successfully and others have had issues with the suction line not working well enough after (to suck fuel from the other side of the tank), which causes the pump to run out of fuel below around a half tank.

 

[strickenchips]

It would probably be ideal to swap over the BHW fuel hard lines, as they have a built-in fuel cooler as well.

Do you think they'll line up with the 4motion tank? I'm still hanging onto mine as well as the BHW pump, but I'll be surprised if they come anywhere near close to lining up.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Yeah tank to where they hook up to the rubber lines on the engine. Deletes the fuel filter under the car as the diesel has the filter mounted on the engine.

I have heard of using the diesel lift pump, but I didn't want to chime in on that as a) I'm going to try that on my Allroad but haven't gotten that far yet, and b) I've read that some have used it successfully and others have had issues with the suction line not working well enough after (to suck fuel from the other side of the tank), which causes the pump to run out of fuel below around a half tank.

Awesome good to know. Not sure If I wanna find out the hard way with the lift pump. Maybe I will just make a bridge between the lines as that has been tried and true from other members from what Ive seen.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Do you think they'll line up with the 4motion tank? I'm still hanging onto mine as well as the BHW pump, but I'll be surprised if they come anywhere near close to lining up.

Ill be the test dummy for this shortly. Ill post on it.

 

[caffeine]

Do you think they'll line up with the 4motion tank? I'm still hanging onto mine as well as the BHW pump, but I'll be surprised if they come anywhere near close to lining up.

Supposedly they fit perfectly except that one of the lines on the tank end is either too long or too short. Easy enough to make it work.

 

[strickenchips]

I was thinking of using a carb style FPR to get the inlet pressure to the tandem pump to about 5-10psi, as that's what it sounds like they expect in factory application. I understand they CAN draw fuel even with no lift pump, but I'll be less worried about pump longevity if it's getting fed what it normally gets. A bypass, depending on how well it flows, can effectively make your feed pressure zero.

 

[caffeine]

I was thinking of using a carb style FPR to get the inlet pressure to the tandem pump to about 5-10psi, as that's what it sounds like they expect in factory application. I understand they CAN draw fuel even with no lift pump, but I'll be less worried about pump longevity if it's getting fed what it normally gets. A bypass, depending on how well it flows, can effectively make your feed pressure zero.

Definitely on 4Motion cars some kind of in tank pump is essential in order to have the suction system working properly, and therefore have the whole tank available for fueling.

 

[PickleRick]

Why not keep the factory gasser fuel pump? Install a metal return TEE in with your return line infront of your fuel pump. The fuel pump will draw out what it needs and the excess pressure will bleed back into the tank.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

Why not keep the factory gasser fuel pump? Install a metal return TEE in with your return line infront of your fuel pump. The fuel pump will draw out what it needs and the excess pressure will bleed back into the tank.

Yes! That’s the route I’ll be taking! Can’t be simple and seems to have been tried and true like you mentioned

 

[PickleRick]

The only issues I've heard with a return TEE without use of a regulator are in the old pre fuel pump bucket pumps. Since they are not constantly submerged in fuel as you go under a 1/4 tank they can over heat and eventually fail. An issue I had to deal with in my old Toyota but not an issue you'll have in your VAG.

I like simple fixes that cost less than 10 bucks at your local hardware store.

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

The only issues I've heard with a return TEE without use of a regulator are in the old pre fuel pump bucket pumps. Since they are not constantly submerged in fuel as you go under a 1/4 tank they can over heat and eventually fail. An issue I had to deal with in my old Toyota but not an issue you'll have in your VAG.

I like simple fixes that cost less than 10 bucks at your local hardware store.

100% agree my friend!

 

[ImperfektMechaniker]

3/18 update

Waiting on my ecu back from Malone. Shipped it out early last week. Working on getting more things together in the engine bay.

The b6/b7 axel lengths match right up and are able to use the existing b5.5 hubs.

Made a pinout chart based off the colored plugs that go into the fuse box. This is based on another chart that was sent to me, but I edited it with the v6 ATQ as the base.
Green-pins match
grey-no longer needed can skip
blue-what pins need to move
red- not sure exactly sure what they are yet or if I need them.