Types of Brakes

benchote13

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Toronto, Ont
TDI
Jetta, 2000
Just wondering if anyone who is running the stock sized brakes on their MK4 TDI Jetta/Golf actually doesn't have any front vibration/warping. From what I've read on here and from talking with people almost everyone gets vibration/warping after a few months of replacing their 280 mm stock TDI brakes. If someone out there has had their set-up for a while and you're not getting warping/vibrating please let me know what rotors and pads your using because I would like to get the same. I wanna give the stock size one more try before I spend the money on a VR6 brake upgrade. Also if anyone is running a set of pads and rotors their really happy with let me know. I do about an equal amount of city to highway driving and drive pretty aggressively. I have ATE rotors with Hawk street pads now and the Hawks are too strong for the rotors they've chewed them up and I've had vibrating after after a couple of months.
 

2ManyKMfor1Tank

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Location
Grand Valley, ON
TDI
2000 Jetta
I did the wife's Audi brakes from parts I got at Carquest, used their cheapest rotors and ceramic pads for under $300 and they are going well after 6 months use. In february I did my brakes front and back on my jetta, using similar quality stuff from KBR auto parts in Guelph for about the same amount and no problems at all. Rotors really aren't something I put alot of $ into, as having worked in a Rotor producing plant in Sudbury many years ago, I consider them disposable. They use the cheapest scrap steel available to them at the time of production. I mean, realistically you can spend as much money as you want, but nowadays, I figure as long as they stop the car reliably there is no sense in spending a fortune on them. Alot of people including myself do their own brakes at home to save on the crazy installation costs as well as peace of mind knowing they were done correctly.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Stock brakes, same rotors and pads for the almost two years I have owned it, and 70,000km. Sadly they came with the car, and I don't know the brand of rotors.:(
 

Savageman69

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Location
ontario
TDI
2012 Highline Touareg TDI
when i got my car the rotors warped in 1 month....dealer replaced them and they lasted 3 months and warped again...i replaced them and 4 months and they are no good again. Ive given up
 

Deezel77

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Location
Cambridge, Ontario
TDI
1999.5 VW Jetta TDI
Well I just bought new rotors because I have the same issue, I think that if it happens again I will be upgrading to a VR6 brake set. Try these guys out. www.royalrotors.com I bought front pads and rotors (drilled) for 100 bucks with shipping and everything. They aren't like a performance rotors or anything, but 100 bucks for pads and rotors I'm not complaining if they warp. Hope you have better luck then I did.
 

ic_ou812

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Location
Niagara
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI Reflex Silver
I put new pads and rotors(all 4 wheels) on about 3 years ago from Brian at Roseland. They are now starting to warp and vibrate(only under heavy braking).
 

codeblue

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Location
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
TDI
98 Vento GLX TDI
Sounds like you guys should upgrade to a mk3 with vr6 288mm rotors. Probably the smoothest brakes in the universe :)

In all seriousness, have you guys checked your rear calipers? On my dad's 2000 golf there was a serious vibration, after checking the rear calipers the pins were stuck and the piston wouldn't screw back in. After replacing the rear calipers, vibration gone.
 

ianfar

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Location
GTA, Ontario
TDI
05 PD Jetta - retired 2015 Jetta
I used to ge this all the time, before I started doing them myself.

Wheel lugs MUST be tightened with a torque wrench. When I bought my Jetta, the dealer just put on fresh fronts. As soon as I got it home I checked with my torque wrench. Sure enough, they were all over the map.

If you must take it to a shop for brakes, buy yourself a torque wrench and retighten the lugs yourself. If your brakes warp then, you have bigger problems. Ive never had a warped rotor since doing my own brakes, and I know damn well this was the reason.
 

kristov

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Location
Kitchener
TDI
2000 Jetta
A very good article on the myth of warped rotors by the famous race car driver, engineer, and author Carroll Smith:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System

by Carroll Smith

Myth # 1 – BRAKE JUDDER AND VIBRATION IS CAUSED BY DISCS THAT HAVE BEEN WARPED FROM EXESSIVE HEAT.


The term "warped brake disc" has been in common use in motor racing for decades. When a driver reports a vibration under hard braking, inexperienced crews, after checking for (and not finding) cracks often attribute the vibration to "warped discs". They then measure the disc thickness in various places, find significant variation and the diagnosis is cast in stone.

When disc brakes for high performance cars arrived on the scene we began to hear of "warped brake discs" on road going cars, with the same analyses and diagnoses. Typically, the discs are resurfaced to cure the problem and, equally typically, after a relatively short time the roughness or vibration comes back. Brake roughness has caused a significant number of cars to be bought back by their manufacturers under the "lemon laws". This has been going on for decades now - and, like most things that we have cast in stone, the diagnoses are wrong.

With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc. I have seen lots of cracked discs, (FIGURE 1) discs that had turned into shallow cones at operating temperature because they were mounted rigidly to their attachment bells or top hats, (FIGURE 2) a few where the friction surface had collapsed in the area between straight radial interior vanes, (FIGURE 3) and an untold number of discs with pad material unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces - sometimes visible and more often not. (FIGURE 4)

In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.

In order to understand what is happening here, we will briefly investigate the nature of the stopping power of the disc brake system.

THE NATURE OF BRAKING FRICTION

Friction is the mechanism that converts dynamic energy into heat. Just as there are two sorts of friction between the tire and the road surface (mechanical gripping of road surface irregularities by the elastic tire compound and transient molecular adhesion between the rubber and the road in which rubber is transferred to the road surface), so there are two very different sorts of braking friction - abrasive friction and adherent friction. Abrasive friction involves the breaking of the crystalline bonds of both the pad material and the cast iron of the disc. The breaking of these bonds generates the heat of friction. In abrasive friction, the bonds between crystals of the pad material (and, to a lesser extent, the disc material) are permanently broken. The harder material wears the softer away (hopefully the disc wears the pad). Pads that function primarily by abrasion have a high wear rate and tend to fade at high temperatures. When these pads reach their effective temperature limit, they will transfer pad material onto the disc face in a random and uneven pattern. It is this "pick up" on the disc face that both causes the thickness variation measured by the technicians and the roughness or vibration under the brakes reported by the drivers.

With adherent friction, some of the pad material diffuses across the interface between the pad and the disc and forms a very thin, uniform layer of pad material on the surface of the disc. As the friction surfaces of both disc and pad then comprise basically the same material, material can now cross the interface in both directions and the bonds break and reform. In fact, with adherent friction between pad and disc, the bonds between pad material and the deposits on the disc are transient in nature - they are continually being broken and some of them are continually reforming.

There is no such thing as pure abrasive or pure adherent friction in braking. With many contemporary pad formulas, the pad material must be abrasive enough to keep the disc surface smooth and clean. As the material can cross the interface, the layer on the disc is constantly renewed and kept uniform - again until the temperature limit of the pad has been exceeded or if the pad and the disc have not been bedded-in completely or properly. In the latter case, if a uniform layer of pad material transferred onto the disc face has not been established during bedding or break-in, spot or uncontrolled transfer of the material can occur when operating at high temperatures. The organic and semi-metallic pads of the past were more abrasive than adherent and were severely temperature limited. All of the current generation of "metallic carbon", racing pads utilize mainly adherent technology as do many of the high end street car pads and they are temperature stable over a much higher range. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch and the ultra high temperature racing pads are ineffective at the low temperatures typically experienced in street use.

Therefore - there is no such thing as an ideal "all around" brake pad. The friction material that is quiet and functions well at relatively low temperatures around town will not stop the car that is driven hard. If you attempt to drive many cars hard with the OEM pads, you will experience pad fade, friction material transfer and fluid boiling - end of discussion. The true racing pad, used under normal conditions will be noisy and will not work well at low temperatures around town.

Ideally, in order to avoid either putting up with squealing brakes that will not stop the car well around town or with pad fade on the track or coming down the mountain at speed, we should change pads before indulging in vigorous automotive exercise. No one does. The question remains, what pads should be used in high performance street cars - relatively low temperature street pads or high temperature race pads? Strangely enough, in my opinion, the answer is a high performance street pad with good low temperature characteristics. The reason is simple: If we are driving really hard and begin to run into trouble, either with pad fade or boiling fluid (or both), the condition(s) comes on gradually enough to allow us to simply modify our driving style to compensate. On the other hand, should an emergency occur when the brakes are

cold, the high temperature pad is simply not going to stop the car. As an example, during the mid 1960s, those of us at Shelby American did not drive GT 350 or GT 500 Mustangs as company cars simply because they were equipped with Raybestos M-19 racing pads and none of our wives could push on the brake pedal hard enough to stop the car in normal driving.

Regardless of pad composition, if both disc and pad are not properly broken in, material transfer between the two materials can take place in a random fashion - resulting is uneven deposits and vibration under braking. Similarly, even if the brakes are properly broken, if, when they are very hot or following a single long stop from high speed, the brakes are kept applied after the vehicle comes to a complete stop it is possible to leave a telltale deposit behind that looks like the outline of a pad. This kind of deposit is called pad imprinting and looks like the pad was inked for printing like a stamp and then set on the disc face. It is possible to see the perfect outline of the pad on the disc. (FIGURE 5)

It gets worse. Cast iron is an alloy of iron and silicon in solution interspersed with particles of carbon. At elevated temperatures, inclusions of carbides begin to form in the matrix. In the case of the brake disk, any uneven deposits - standing proud of the disc surface - become hotter than the surrounding metal. Every time that the leading edge of one of the deposits rotates into contact with the pad, the local temperature increases. When this local temperature reaches around 1200 or 1300 degrees F. the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite (an iron carbide in which three atoms of iron combine with one atom of carbon). Cementite is very hard, very abrasive and is a poor heat sink. If severe use continues the system will enter a self-defeating spiral - the amount and depth of the cementite increases with increasing temperature and so does the brake roughness. Drat!

PREVENTION

There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.

In terms of stop severity, an ABS active stop would typically be around 0.9 G’s and above, depending on the vehicle. What you want to do is stop at a rate around 0.7

to 0.9 G's. That is a deceleration rate near but below lock up or ABS intervention. You should begin to smell pads at the 5th to 7th stop and the smell should diminish before the last stop. A powdery gray area will become visible on the edge of the pad (actually the edge of the friction material in contact with the disc - not the backing plate) where the paint and resins of the pad are burning off. When the gray area on the edges of the pads are about 1/8" deep, the pad is bedded.

For a race pad, typically four 80mph to 5 and two 100mph to 5, depending on the pad, will also be necessary to raise the system temperatures during break-in to the range that the pad material was designed to operate at. Hence, the higher temperature material can establish its layer completely and uniformly on the disc surface.

Fortunately the procedure is also good for the discs and will relieve any residual thermal stresses left over from the casting process (all discs should be thermally stress relieved as one of the last manufacturing processes) and will transfer the smooth layer of pad material onto the disc. If possible, new discs should be bedded with used pads of the same compound that will be used going forward. Again, heat should be put into the system gradually - increasingly hard stops with cool off time in between. Part of the idea is to avoid prolonged contact between pad and disc. With abrasive pads (which should not be used on high performance cars) the disc can be considered bedded when the friction surfaces have attained an even blue color. With the carbon metallic type pads, bedding is complete when the friction surfaces of the disc are a consistent gray or black. In any case, the discoloration of a completely broken in disc will be complete and uniform.

Depending upon the friction compound, easy use of the brakes for an extended period may lead to the removal of the transfer layer on the discs by the abrasive action of the pads. When we are going to exercise a car that has seen easy brake use for a while, a partial re-bedding process will prevent uneven pick up.

The driver can feel a 0.0004" deposit or TV on the disc. 0.001" is annoying. More than that becomes a real pain. When deposit are present, by having isolated regions that are proud of the surface and running much hotter than their neighbors, cementite inevitably forms and the local wear characteristics change which results in ever increasing TV and roughness.

Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry.

The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason.

The only fix for extensive uneven deposits involves dismounting the discs and having them Blanchard ground - not expensive, but inconvenient at best. A newly ground disc will require the same sort of bedding in process as a new disc. The trouble with this procedure is that if the grinding does not remove all of the cementite inclusions, as the disc wears the hard cementite will stand proud of the relatively soft disc and the thermal spiral starts over again. Unfortunately, the cementite is invisible to the naked eye.

Taking time to properly bed your braking system pays big dividends but, as with most sins, a repeat of the behavior that caused the trouble will bring it right back.

MYTH # 2 - RACING BRAKE DISCS ARE MADE FROM STEEL

To digress for a moment "steel discs" are a misnomer frequently used by people who should know better. This group includes TV commentators and drivers being interviewed. Except for some motorcycles and karts, all ferrous discs are made from cast iron - an excellent material for the job. While steel has a higher tensile strength, cast iron is many times stronger than disc brake requirements. Its thermal transfer characteristics are significantly better than those of steel so that the heat generated at the interface between pad and disc is efficiently carried through the friction faces to the interior surface of the disc and into the vanes from where the heat is dissipated into the air stream. Cast iron is more dimensionally stable at elevated temperature than steel and is a better heat sink - so let us hear no more talk of "steel" brake discs.

MYTH # 3 - A SOFT BRAKE PEDAL IS THE RESULT OF PAD FADE

The all too familiar mushy brake pedal is caused by overheated brake fluid, not overheated pads. Repeated heavy use of the brakes may lead to "brake fade". There are two distinct varieties of brake fade

A) When the temperature at the interface between the pad and the rotor exceeds the thermal capacity of the pad, the pad loses friction capability due largely to out gassing of the binding agents in the pad compound. The brake pedal remains firm and solid but the car will not stop. The first indication is a distinctive and unpleasant smell which should serve as a warning to back off,

B) When the fluid boils in the calipers air bubbles are formed. Since air is compressible, the brake pedal becomes soft and "mushy" and pedal travel increases. You can probably still stop the car by pumping the pedal but efficient modulation is gone. This is a gradual process with lots of warning.

MYTH # 4 - BOILED BRAKE FLUID WILL BE SERVICABLE AFTER IT COOLS.

Once the brake fluid inside the caliper has boiled, it has lost a significant percentage of its original boiling point and should be replaced. It is not necessary to remove all of the fluid in the system, just bleed until clear fluid appears.

MYTH # 5 - BECAUSE THEY ARE NON-HYGROSCOPIC SILICON BASED BRAKE FLUIDS ARE SUITABLE FOR USE IN HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS

DOT 3 AND DOT 4 brake fluids are ether based and are hygroscopic in nature - i.e. they absorb water vapor. As the braking system in not quite airtight, a significant amount of water can be absorbed from the atmosphere in the course of a year. A 3% water content in brake fluid drops the boiling point as much as 170 degrees F. Brake fluid should be completely replaced annually.
DOT 5 fluids are silicon based and are non-hygroscopic, which is good. They are also subject to frothing from high frequency vibration, which gives a soft pedal. Soft brake pedals may be OK in non-high performance cars (in fact, most drivers accept mushy brake pedals as normal) but they are not acceptable in any situation where the driver intends to modulate braking at high force values.

MYTH # 6 - The brake fluid reservoir should be topped up during routine service.

In most modern passenger cars, the brake fluid reservoir is designed with a specific volume and is equipped with an internal float. The volume corresponds to the amount of fluid that will be displaced when the pads have worn to the point of replacement plus a generous reserve. When the replacement point is reached, the descending float completes an electrical circuit and a light appears on the dash warning the driver that the pads should be replaced.
If the brake fluid is topped up the first warning of warn out pads will be the screech of steel backing plate against iron disc. This will be both annoying and expensive.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
I read through most of the above, and the guy has a lot of experience with racecars, but the real world of average-joe commuter vehicles is different.

I have dealt with rotors from aftermarket suppliers as well as OEMs where the quality of the metalurgy/casting/machining was often substandard, and needed to be trued on my lathe before I would consider putting on a car.

Brake pulsations come in three basic varieties:

1) corrosion - if a vehicle sits for periods of time, the pad will trap moisture between the rotor and itself. This will result in rust building up at an uneven rate around the rotor. As this rust passes under the pad during braking, the pad will be pushed back slightly, causing the pedal to pulse.
2) thickness variation - where the rotor is physically thicker on one side comapred to the other. Like the corrosion above, as the rotor rotates, the pad will be pushed back slightly, again causing the pedal to pulsate. this is often caused by lousy metalurgy, where different parts of the rotor have different carbon, chromium and tungsten contents, causing the rotor to deal with heat (expand) differently in different places.
3) warpage/wobble - where the rotor is the same tickness all the way around, but when viewed on end, the rotor is higher on one side than the other, compared to the mounting surfaces. This is by far, the most common thing I encountered when addressing brake pulsations. Crappy rotors cast from crappy materials, turned on a crappy lathe, in a crappy factory. I had rotors from the factory on Pontiac trans-sports where the "finish cut" was so coarse, the rotor looked like a 33rpm LP record- it caused the pads to follow the groove in the rotor such that they would click once per revolution under light braking.
wobble is also very common when rotors are not torqued properly, especially on aluminum rotors - steelies tend to be a bit more forgiving due to the clamping effect of the stamped wheel hub.

Coles notes: get quality parts, with good machining, and torque your wheels properly, and you should be OK.

As above, i have put 70k on my latest set of rotors without pulsation, this through multiple summer/winter rim swaps.

In a racing environment, Mr. Carroll will be supplied with precision engineered, high-tolerance parts for his vehicles. I can pretty-well guarantee his racecars have never seen knockoff parts from China made in a factory with little or no QA/QC.

That being said, the parts currently supplied to auto-parts suppliers are often dubiously sourced from a supplier who cares about one thing only - price. A quality product is far too often secondary to everyone in the chain making a profit.


As above, proper wheel torque and clean mounting surfaces are key to making sure rotors don't pulsate.
 

yatzee

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Location
Montreal, Qc
TDI
see sig
i too have given up. I have nice cross drilled ones that started vibrating after 1000 kms.

I will check my Control Arm bushings, but they are quite recent.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
In 210K I've had one set of rotors in my wagon warp. The OE ones went 130K w/o problems. The replacements (ATE, I think) went another 70K, no problems. I put Hudsons on it last summer and ran five track events with Yellowstuff pads. Then during the winter those rotors warped. I'm not surprised after the abuse they got. Put on another Hudson set and so far, so good.

I've had Akebono, Ate, and TRW pads on my car. I like the TRWs best, low dust, no squealing ever, and good response.

Make sure the slide pins in the calipers are clean and move freely. Wire brush all debris off the calipers. Torque the wheels manually to the proper spec.

I've always avoided bigger brakes on MKIV cars because I don't want to add the weight. I find the stock ones are adequate, even on the track.
 

TDIDarryl

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Location
From Barrie, now Winnipeg, MB
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
I've been fighting with warped rotors for years. I've been through countless sets of rotors and pads in an attempt to fix the problem. I've used Brembo, VW OEM, Zimmerman and ATE but the end result was the same with all of the brands.

That being said, I did replace my rotors most recently about a year ago. Within a few months my that familiar pulsing was back. Around the same time I diagnosed a bad driver's side tie rod end. Replaced it, low and behold, the warp was gone!

Of course, six months later and the brakes are starting to warp again. Perhaps my passenger side tie rod is out, I haven't yet been motivated to diagnose it again.

I'll second Wingnut's suggestion that control arm bushings are a likely culprit as well, but I'd also suggest that the tie rod assemblies be replaced if you're going to pull the control arms since you'll need an alignment anyways.
 

petea4

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Location
Toronto
TDI
'01 Golf GLS
I ran some no-name rotors/pads, and they warped after 30K. Then went to crossdrilled Zimmermans with PVR?PBR? semi- ceramics. They lasted about 60K but the warpage came on at a lesser pace. That's me, mechanically inclined, knowing how to drive it well, and understanding heat.

Just did a 20th swap. Pretty sweet.

Have a 1.8T/VR6 front setup on the garage floor that will be up for sale soon.

Pete
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
I gotta say, I've never had a problem with warped rotors or pedal vibration. I do almost all highway driving with my TDI though. I'm sure if I did more stop/go city driving I'd have similar issues.
 

Deezel77

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Location
Cambridge, Ontario
TDI
1999.5 VW Jetta TDI
When I was doing my brakes the other day I got a little lube happy, seeing as the last guy didn't put any lube, he used anti-seize so I have to clean all the crap off. But now I got a little on my drivers side rotor and its squeeling like a bastard. How can I get it off the pads??? Do I have to use some sand paper and sand it off?
 

REDNECKDZL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Location
Omemee
TDI
2001 Jetta, 2015 Jetta, 1984 Wabbit TD, 1986 RX7 waiting on AHU swap
You could try some aerosol brake cleaner, if there is too much though the pads might be toast
 

SonyAD

banned Borat
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Location
București, România
TDI
Peugeot 206 2.0 HDi
I just switched to Textar pads on the front a few days ago. Changed them myself.

On the left hand side, the disc is intensely blue on the outer side, near the hub and near the edge. Normal/gray in the middle of the rotor edge. The brakes smell even after short drives.

I really ran the old pads down. Maybe 2 mm of material left on one of them.

What might this bluing be from? The pads still only making partial contact because break in is not complete? Sticking calliper?

There doesn't seem to be any issue with the disc on the other side.

Haven't checked the inside faces of the discs.

I'll post pics later.
 

TDI-84

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Location
Burlington ON, Canada
TDI
'03 Jetta TDI
Need rotors that won't rust!!

I'm really frustrated with rotors right now. I decided that I wanted cross drilled rotors because I'll be upgrading to nice 18" wheels in the spring, and the drilled rotors look awesome (yes, I know, never do something for looks). I bought the expensive drilled Zimmerman rotors which look incredible, but they rusted horribly after only a couple months. How can this possibly be acceptable for a high end rotor?? When was the last time you saw a Porche with drilled rotors that have rusted? Can anyone suggest a good drilled rotor that will not rust and look terrible? If you can't, what's a good flat rotor that will not rust and look terrible? I can't understand how with the technologically advanced alloys of all kinds that we have, why hardly anyone seems to be able to make a rotor that won't rust. Suggestions from first hand experience greatly appreaciated.
 

GTT

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Location
Toronto
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI (S-line); 2003 Golf
I have ECS stage IIvII drilled front brakes with porsche caliper and hawk pads. Expensive....$1600.00, but the car stops in half the distance. Absolutely no vibration and no fade. The rotors are zinc coated and barely rust. They are 330 mm and require 17" rims. They do not weigh any more than the stock brakes. I sometimes pull a trailer so I appreciate the extra stopping power. Hard to put a price on safety.
 

chaloux

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
Gravenhurst, Ontario
TDI
96 A6 Avant TDI Quattro, 04 Jetta Wagon
I've had the same front rotors since I bought the car, over 100km ago. Not sure what brand they are. I put some new front pads on, cheap ones, and the pad separated from the backing. I replaced them with the bit more expensive ceramic pads, and have had no warping. I've put two new sets of rotors on the rear, and that's because of rust, not warping. I have had a bit of brake wobble in the rear, but again I assume it's because of the condition of the rotors. The first time I replaced them, I used cheapies. This time, I used the coated zimmermans from Roseland, along with the Akebono ceramic pads. The've been great so far.
 

silver_tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Location
Toronto,ONT
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI PD
I have no problems with mine. 74,000k's on mine and the pads are still mint probably 90% left but squeel when hot. Hey Pete let me know about the front set up
 

ghestrada

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Location
Noblesville, IN
TDI
99 New Beetle, 02 Jetta
I've had the original front rotors on my NB for over 10 years and 100K miles, with original pads! I have never had any indication of pulsing or squelling. The rears are a different story though - 3 sets of pads in that time (same rotors). All rotors are beginning to show some deep wear, but with all of the issues that I have read about, I'm a little anxious to try anything new!

The Jetta is totally different. New rotors and pads 2 years (~25K miles) ago, and I can hardly stand to drive it, it pulses so bad. Going to have the front rotor checked and resurfaced or replaced, then bed them properly. I trusted the previous shop to do that for me and don't know if they did it all or properly.
 

2ManyKMfor1Tank

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Location
Grand Valley, ON
TDI
2000 Jetta
I've had the original front rotors on my NB for over 10 years and 100K miles, with original pads! I have never had any indication of pulsing or squelling. The rears are a different story though - 3 sets of pads in that time (same rotors). All rotors are beginning to show some deep wear, but with all of the issues that I have read about, I'm a little anxious to try anything new!

The Jetta is totally different. New rotors and pads 2 years (~25K miles) ago, and I can hardly stand to drive it, it pulses so bad. Going to have the front rotor checked and resurfaced or replaced, then bed them properly. I trusted the previous shop to do that for me and don't know if they did it all or properly.
Get the shop to check your lower control arm bushings, chances are it isn't the rotors. There is a thread about this issue. BTW Don't waste your money resurfacing rotors - buy new ones.
 

Jetta_Pilot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Location
West Hill, Ont.
TDI
2015 Passat Highline TDI Candy White (SEL Premium) long gone 2002 Jetta TDI
Just coming up to 120,000 km and still have the original factory brakes. But I do some very long distance driving on Interstate highways, so braking is at a minimum.

The first 3 years the car had only been driven under 5,000 km by the original 79 year old owner.:eek:

A month ago I had an alignment, tire rotation and balance done, was not informed that the pads might need replacing. But when I do I already have drilled rotors and pads for that.

Next week Tuesday car is going in to Brandon (DCB Automotive) for a timing belt change.
 
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