Turning potential VW customers away

[mickey]

A few FACTS:

First, Fred isn't Member #1. (I don't know why.)

Second, nobody is "bashing VW for not giving Steve a new engine."

We're bashing them for REFUSING TO INVESTIGATE WHY HIS ENGINE BLEW UP!

We're bashing them for HIDING THE FACT THAT IT WAS FAULTY WHEN IT WAS DELIVERED FROM THE FACTORY!

We're bashing them for LYING TO STEVE WHEN HE BOUGHT THE CAR!

We're bashing them for CHECKING FOR CODES WITH THE SENSORS REMOVED, then telling him "YOUR ECU IS FULL OF CODES", and then REFUSING TO ALLOW HIM TO SEE THE CODES!

We're bashing them for calling him "TURDO STEVE" and writing that name on a box of old parts!

Steve has said himself...over and over, if anyone would care to listen...that he was entirely ready to accept the consequences of his actions IF IT COULD BE SHOWN THAT HE CAUSED THE FAILURE! He was willing to compromise if the answer were ambiguous. When all was said and done, he was still willing to work with them if they'd at least cut him a little slack, but they tried to charge him SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS for a new engine, which was much less complete than the brand new $3000 engine he ended up buying elsewhere. Plus SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS for installation!

We're bashing them for lying, cheating and generally treating Steve shabbily.

We're bashing them for every VW customer who has ever paid out the A** for mediocre, incompetent, dishonest "service."

We're bashing dealers for every injector pump, ECU, turbocharger and glow plug relay the've ever charged VW for under warranty when a $10 relay would have solved the problem. (Who do you think ends up paying for that in the end, eh? The Tooth Fairy? No...YOU do, when you buy a new car!)

Yes, I know "Honda dealers do it too." So? Does that make it OK? "Everybody does it", so that makes it alright?

Wrong is wrong, and I don't tolerate it when it happens to me OR to my friends. No way. I'll "bash" them until they get a frappin' clue.

-mickey

 

[2GreenTdi's]

EXACTLY!!!

Thank you Mickey.

I don't know how you contained your emotions long enough to get that out.

 

[Dante]

"It's when they start bashing the company for not giving them a free motor or other abused component when theirs blows up after they have been tinkering with it."

READ THE ACT Mickey has cited so frequently. Even if you modify your car the manufacturer has certain obligations that VW has not fulfilled.

"I read what you guys have all done to your cars then have to laugh when I read what happens to them."

My only modifications (better air filter, oil bypass filter) improve air and oil filtration, yet VW has told me they jeopardize my warranty

Why did I do them? (1) I don't expect problems--it's a pretty good car. (2) IF I have problems and VW covers them under warranty, I will be pleasantly surprised.
(3) IF I have problems and VW fulfills their obligations under the act but denies my claim, I will not complain. (4) IF I have problems and VW does NOT fulfill their obligations under the act, fixing the problem will probably be cheaper and will certainly be more convenient than fighting them--that's what they are counting on

"Then I get mad when I hear all the threats to VW being given because they denied your claims of faulty components."

Again, arguably they have not fulfilled their obligation under the act. Read it. You are writing from a position of IGNORANCE

"Has it ever occurred to any of you lame brains that all the company folks have to do is read up on this forum to see exactly what you are doing to your cars. They aren't stupid you know. They did after all build one of the finest auto diesels in the world. I'll bet that every VW dealer in the country knows about this forum."

That does not change their obligations under the act. BTW--there you go with the name-calling again dumba$$ (see how convincing that is)

"Member Number has nothing to do with who you are. Fred is number one and he doesn't even own a TDI."

Mickey is more credible than you on all matters TDI. Period

"Member number does not make a person. Character makes the person. Good character starts with doing the right thing. When it comes to money, alot of otherwise good men fail."

I agree with you as to member number. Everything else you say applies equally to VWOA from my point of view. You are making incorrect assumptions because you have not read the act.

"Lets keep teaching our kids that it's not right to steal or cheat but it's ok to rip off the big car companies or insurance companies or whatever the case might be because they have lots of money and they are obligated to pay me no matter what. Hypocrites, thats the word for people like that."

That's not what is happening here. That's what you assume is happening here because you are poorly informed.

"Guys keep it up and guess what? Somebody someday, maybe someboby close to you, will stick it to you too, just you wait and see. Sowing and reaping it's called."

I will fulfill my responsibilities under the law--what about VW?

"By the way, I love my TDI. If anyone out there wants a great car, then buy a TDI. You won't be sorry. Dealer service may be below expectations for a German Automaker, but the car is a great car."

I agree

"These guys are wrongly using this forum and if I was VW I would turn the tables and sue them for slander and false accusations and running off potential customers. Wouldn't that be something!"

Cite specific statements that are slanderous.

Cite specific "accusations" that are false.

Show me real prospective customers who were "run off."

This forum isn't about mindless loyalty to VW

P.S. I think it's funny that this thread had pretty much petered out and then VW's great defender, NoSmoke brought it back to life for more to read

Hey NoSmoke, you are aiding and abetting slander! LOL

[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: Dante Driver ]</p>

 

[No-Smoke]

Mickey, "Nobody is bashing VW for not giving Steve a new engine," you say. Hummmm Looks like a duck, Quacks like a duck, Sure seems to me like a DUCK!!
There is no reason for VW to investigate at their expense the cause of engine failure when it is obvious to everyone that the engine had been modified to increase output beyond factory specs. When are you dopes going to get it through your thick skulls that if you change anything on your engine to increase power beyond factory specs then you VOID your warranty. You wouldn't expect any American Automaker to let you do that to an engine then say it was defective from the day you bought it. They would laugh at you. All you are doing on this forum is trying to drum up others to back you in this absurd and wrong quest of unrealistic reprisal. The only ones who will rebel your cause will no doubt be others who have foolishly compromised their own warranties with similar modifications to their cars. You are true in saying that owners have paid for warranties with the purchase of the automobile. It is also true that the price we all must pay is increased by people who enlist false claims for warranty work. I know that I am not alone in my views and would like others who agree to leave a note on this thread for all to see including those innocent prospective buyers who would like to buy a TDI. Thank you! PS I don't work for VW, I'm just a SATISFIED TDI owner. Mickey, Turbo Steve, Hondo, I'm sorry, but when your wrong, your wrong. Justifying this among yourselves may bring you some feeling of self gratification but what is wrong will always be wrong. I think you truly know that as well as all of the rest of us. Honesty, Integrity? WWJD? God Bless America and Forgive Us Our Sins!!!!!!

 

[Dante]

"There is no reason for VW to investigate at their expense the cause of engine failure when it is obvious to everyone that the engine had been modified to increase output beyond factory specs."

1. Read the act.

2. I thought VW denied the warranty claim in question because of "suspicious marks" just like the ones on the brand new replacement engine.

"When are you dopes going to get it through your thick skulls that if you change anything on your engine to increase power beyond factory specs then you VOID your warranty."

More name calling and another assumption about the VW warranty and the law

Keep 'em coming--we want to keep this thread front and center

 

[msauve]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> Read the act. <hr></blockquote>

Why not take your own advice, and in addition, take the time to understand what it says?

VW doesn't have to "prove" anything, unless you sue them, in which case they have to demonstrate a preponderance of evidence that the warranty terms were violated.

The act allows warrantors to deny claims by showing abuse, imporper maintenance, etc. This is BEYOND the explicit terms of the warranty.

If the warranty says it is voided if you paint your engine brown or hang fuzzy dice from the mirror, then it is void if you do so, and the warrantor doesn't have to show that it caused any given failure. If a warrantor says "no questions asked lifetime warranty," they may still deny coverage by showing that the owner abused or failed to properly maintain the item.

It also says that replacement parts cannot be specified by brand names, unless the parts are provided free of charge under the warranty. That's what allows use of aftermarket filters, belts, etc. It doesn't mean you can put a double blower on an engine and expect the manufacturer to replace the bottom end when you bend it.

THAT is what the act says.

[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: msauve ]</p>

 

[Dante]

I've read the act google searched its title and read many of the results. Consumer law attorneys' interpretation and application of the act to a particular set of facts will differ, so it's not surprising that the opinions of laymen will differ, too. Mine looks like this.

If VW can deny Steve's claim and his only recourse is litigation, then the same is true for all of us with modified or unmodified vehicles. Damage or malfunctions due to modification, intentional or unintentianal misfueling, misue, negligence, alteration, accident and lack of maintenance, among other things, are all excluded.

I've said before TS is not an ideal poster boy for this issue, but go read about VW on the Consumer Reports, Edmunds, or other boards. VW is known for their aggressive warranty positions.

I'm happy with my car and I knew VWs warranty and willingness to back it up were below par before I bought the car. I guess the negative response on the part of all the TDI true believers to just talking about it motivated me to jump on the band wagon. I guess dissent is not allowed here

[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: Dante Driver ]</p>

 

[No-Smoke]

I can't believe what I am reading here. Dante says: and I quote,

"If VW can deny Steve's claim and his only recourse is litigation, then the same is true for all us with modified or unmodified vehicles. Damage or malfunctions due to modification, intentional or unintentional misfueling, misuse, negligence, alterations, accident, and a lack of maintenance, among other things are all excluded."

All those things should be excluded!!!! Whats wrong with you people!!! Warranties are for defects in the PRODUCT, not for defects in the PURCHASER!!

Stand up and be accountable for what you do or cause. Pay for your own mistakes, don't ask the rest of us to do that for you. The world does not owe you anything. This is what is wrong with America today. Everthing is always someone elses fault.

VW should not deny any legitimate claim, and if or when they do, they should be challenged. We all know what a legitimate claim is, now don't we? We don't need a lawyer to tell us that and neither does VW.

You guys should not be bashing VW and trying to hurt the company's sales for problems you have brought on yourselves. Shame, Shame.

 

[Dante]

My point was this: The damage or malfunctions do not have to be due to modification, intentional or unintentianal misfueling, misuse, negligence, alteration, accident and lack of maintenance, among other things, for VW to deny your claim. VW only has to say the problem was due to one of those things and not a defect in the product.

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Dante Driver ]</p>

 

[No-Smoke]

Dante, I read the ACT. The aftermarket parts the ACT is refering to is belts, hoses, filters. You know, maintenance items and REPLACEMENT OEM parts.

The way I read it, if you chose to use a brand of say; water pump that is not a true VW part and your engine overheats and fries, then no warranty coverage.

This act does not, nor was it ever intended to protect speed racer when he blows up his engine from performance modifications.

Your reading stuff into the act thats just not there. You guys are grasping at straws and splitting hairs. If it had been just a hose or belt or air filter then you would have a very good chance to win this. But not a chipped car with turbo mods. Sorry, but the ACT does not cover you there.

I can't believe that you guys did not check with VW BEFORE you modified your cars to be sure about the warranty chances. You could have saved yourselves a lot of trouble and money. Then again, you probably wouldn't have listened and ignored them just like you are now.

I know that I for one would not ever buy a used TDI from any of you guys!!

 

[Don S.]

My car is still quite new, but I have to say that I just can't understand why people say such negative things about VW. Maybe it's just my dealer...they are awesome...but so far, absolutely everything form first test drive to ownership has been perfect! The only thing I see more often here than the complaints about bad dealers, etc, is "how much over invoice??". Seems to me that there is a co-relation - the people who paid $100 over..or whatever..also complain most about their dealer. I wonder if the dealers that do business better, feel they deserve to make more money - or need it to hire good people??????

 

[msauve]

Gosh, Dante, of course VW can "deny" warrantee coverage for any reason. Your recourse is to bring suit, at which point the warranty status is decided by the court by interpreting the warranty document, the law, and the facts at hand.

Or did you simply think you could just call the local cops and ask them to arrest VW for breaking the MM act?

 

[chopchop]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Don S.:
My car is still quite new, but I have to say that I just can't understand why people say such negative things about VW............<hr></blockquote>

I note that you're based in Ontario, not the USA and perhaps you haven't been around long enough to evolve a properly-considered opinion about VW.

I think it is fair to say that the VW service backup, support and quality is generally MUCH higher in Canada than in the US. It really is disgraceful that so many VW FRANCHISED DEALERS in the USA do not even have a clue about the correct engine oil to use, as has been demonstrated so often on this Forum.

I also have experience of VW in the UK, and, frankly, have not liked some of their warranty attitudes:

Case in point: A VW Caravelle/Transporter (Eurovan to most of you..) I looked after for a relative, who had owned it from new, when just under 2 years old, under 10000 miles, was discovered by me to have porosity in the spare wheel (rim, NOT tyre). The latter had NEVER been used, evidenced from the pristine condition of tyre and rim, even to the extent of the factory underbody treatment overspray on the tyre, and if VW had wanted to check, they could have proved from the Serial No on the tyre that is was of original factory supply.

They did their level best to deny and reject the claim for a replacement - FOR A FAULT WHICH WAS THEIRS, THEIR RESPONSIBILITY ENTIRELY, & should have been identified in a PDI/1st service BY THEIR DEALER - purely on the basis that it was technically out of warranty TIME-wise.

Now all you idealists out there who think VW's warranty cover is all fair and proper, answer me this one:

Was that being fair and reasonable to the customer?

Only by my getting extremely nasty with them and threatening them with exposure in the media did they grudgingly relent.

 

[2GreenTdi's]

from no smoke:
All those things should be excluded!!!! Whats wrong with you people!!! Warranties are for defects in the PRODUCT, not for defects in the PURCHASER!!

Stand up and be accountable for what you do or cause. Pay for your own mistakes, don't ask the rest of us to do that for you. The world does not owe you anything. This is what is wrong with America today. Everthing is always someone elses fault.
__________________________________________________

So you can explain the member that a few months back had a warranty denied for a bad relay 109 because he had an aftermarket radio.

Wait a minute; aren't those relay 109's defective?

Your arguements don't hold water.

VW handled Steve's case like any other.
That in itself is the problem.

 

[jorpet]

I like the bit about slander! In order to sue for slander you have to:

1) Say something that can be proven to be false. When we state what is happening in these instances of warranty abuse it is not false.

2) The person slandered must not have a forum to respond to false accusations in a timely manner. Just becuase VWoA doesn't have the balls to put an official comment on this board doesn't mean they can't.

No-Smoke, do you realize that if you do anything to your car your warranty can be voided? That means radios, wheels, tires, cd changers that are not OEM and installed by VW? If not please leave, you are being a jerk.

 

[jorpet]

Oh, one more thing. I have turned away two buyers from VW who will likely buy before the end of the year. You think they can sue me for that? Even if I lied to them there is no recourse for VW.

What there is recourse for is that the dealer told me that I would get free oil changes for the life of the car with synthetic oil. At the first oil change the tech told me that after the 20k mile change the oil is the regular rot gut they use for the gassers. That would void my warranty if I had them do the changes.

VWoA you listening? You lied!

 

[Dante]

For the record:

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dante Driver:
I'm happy with my car and I knew VWs warranty and willingness to back it up were below par before I bought the car. I guess the negative response on the part of all the TDI true believers to just talking about it motivated me to jump on the band wagon. I guess dissent is not allowed here<hr></blockquote>

VW has some great products. Too bad they don't stand behind them as well as some other makes, at least in the US. Based on what I have read here, at the Vortex, at Consumer Reports, Edmunds and other places (www.myvwlemon.com

) VW dealers sure seem much more willing to deem problems to be within a warranty exclusion without investigation than most dealers. It may or may not be legal, but is it right? (And let's use the radio/relay 109 example here, since it's a more likely case than Turbo Steve's). Is it really any better than concealing modifications to avoid a warranty exclusion? I don't know whether the problem is at VWOA or at the dealership level, but VWOA coulld fix it.

99 our of 100 threads here are pro VW and pro TDI, but if someone crosses the party line and says anything negative, they get flamed. This is not a VW site. It is a forum for TDI enthusiasts (and I am enthusiastic about my TDI) to discuss TDIs and related topics, warts and all. If a little sunshine sends a few people to another make, all the more TDIs for people who care more about driving a TDI than about top notch warranty service.

When people posted negative things, I used to just post this: www.myvwlemon.com but I'm sick of seeing people flamed for not toeing the party line.

I'd love to say TDIs are perfect and VWAG, VWOA and VW dealers are exemplary in every way, but I can't.

On a final note, I too have turned customers away from VW. My mother-in-law loves my car, but she is not an enthusiast. She is not even someone who can be counted on to maintain her car. She is the kind of person who values long warranties and good warrant service. She doesn't care that the Japanese cars are "boring." For all these reasons, I told her she probably shouldn't buy a TDI and she bought a Japanese car with a better warranty. Result: one more TDI for someone who really wants one

[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: Dante Driver ]</p>

 

[MITBeta]

One thing I've noticed from visiting various sites, such as planetfeedback.com and reading what people have to say about VW is that they are generally happy with the "front end" of the dealer -- namely the shopping and sales portion of their dealings with VW. However, when it comes time to have the oil changed, or a new MAF installed, that's when the $hit hits the fan and people's minds change quickly.

Clearly the guy in a suit who's selling you the car at the front of the store is only very loosely connected to the guy at the back who's pouring god-knows-what into your crankcase.

NoSmoke:

The point many people here are trying to make is that even using aftermarket belts, hoses, etc, VW seems very likely to deny warranty coverage and then let YOU prove that the "modification" did NOT cause whatever malfunction or damage is in place. Should it be up to you to prove this? If your answer is "No," then where does one draw the line on burden of proof?

My opinion is that VW should have torn Steve's engine down and figured out exactly what went wrong with it. If it was found that it was Steve's fault, then they should charge him for the labor involved in the investigation process, and offer to fix or replace the engine for a fair fee. If it is found that the engine was faulty from the getgo, then they should suck it up and repair or replace it out of their own pocket. The problem is that too little evidence was used to deny the claim, and this happens in many, many cases, it just happens that Steve's claim has come to our attention.

 

[Sun Baked GL]

Here is another recent horror story, where the dealer "forgot" to tighten the drain plug and both the dealer and VWoA don't really care about making the customer happy.

Warranty claim for damage denied due to non-manufacturer damage.

<a href="http://www.prairielaw.com/messageboards/message.asp?channelId=26&subId=&mId=156890&mbId=47" target="_blank">[Angry] 2001 Jetta Disaster-Volks Dlr Incompentence
</a>

 

[mickey]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>This act does not, nor was it ever intended to protect speed racer when he blows up his engine from performance modifications.

<hr></blockquote>

Actually, you got that one right! VW is certainly NOT obligated to pay for parts that fail as a result of "unauthorized" mods.

All they have to do is "show" that the mods caused the failure, just like it states in the MM Act.

See? We CAN agree!

-mickey

 

[CRANKY PANTS]

I am more inclined to believe that the VW mechanics don't know sh*t about TDIs. They can't figure out what is wrong except to say clogged intake. So they give up too easy. That is where I see the problem. The only time I would think that they won't give up (or can't give up) is that if the car is still bone-stock. how many do they really know how to resolve TDI issues? I say less than one percent.

 

[CRANKY PANTS]

Originally posted by CRANKY PANTS:
[QB]I am more inclined to believe that the VW mechanics don't know sh*t about TDIs. They can't figure out what is wrong except to say clogged intake. So they give up too easy. That is where I see the problem. The only time I would think that they won't give up (or can't give up) is that if the car is still bone-stock. how many do they really know how to resolve TDI issues? I say less than one percent.

sorry im new to this group and still learning the ropes.
anyway im a vw tech at a high volume vw dealership and i just have a hard time understanding why vw should pick up the tab for a vw that has been modified beyond specs. let me understand what i think you guys are whining about... you chip the car, you put oversized injectors, you blow car up, and its vw fault???
i work on tdi cars all day so to tell people that i dont know what im doing is insane. if you modify you car to work beyond the vw spec, then your warranty is void. most of the tdi cars i see are here strictly for oil changes (they run that good)and tire rotations. yes we have seen problems but most of the time vw does pick up the tab. (sometimes i tell vw not to warranty due to lack of service or because of a modification and they still cover it) i promise you I KNOW WAY MORE THAN YOU DO ABOUT THAT ENGINE, HOW IT WORKS, AND WHAT IT WOULD

 

[AusSalzburg]

I work for Volkswagen and some of you are blowing this way out. I work for the busiest VW dealer in the Northwest.

I agree with No-smoke on his previous statments.

I have to say something now after reading this thread on Steve's stupid blown motor this past week and all the negative comments directed to VW of america.
For all of you that say that VW does everything to avoid having to take care of warranty repairs, you are liars and full of hot air.
On a daily basis we do warranty repairs that we are NOT supposed to do. We make these free repairs just to make the customer happy and mostly to avoid having an upset customer. I have done numerous repairs on broken items in cars that were clearly damaged from abuse or by accident. Example: Broken ashtrays, broken rear ash trays, tears in the seat leather, seat levers broken off, cuts on the steering wheels, broken head light adjusters after the customer install aftermarket blue-bulbs, twisted and bound-seat belts, new crome shift-gate covers because the customer spilled a drink in it causing the lever to stick, wiper inserts, $120 key-less remotes that don't work anymore because it went through the washing machine, climatronic computer because the buttons were sticking from another spilled drink from the cup holder above, a buzzing sound from the ventelation system because the customer drop his small parking stub down the deffrost vents, lower skit plate cover repaired because the customer drove over a curb, free check engine diagnosis and reset for those who left off their gas-caps, free wheel bearing replacements because the owner lowered his own car and incorrectly installed his outer axels nuts, free leak repair on rear tailights housing after customer intalled AFTERMARKET tinted taillights, free diagnoses and repair for wiring shorts caused by incorrect installation of AFTMARKET alarm crap, radios, amps and trailerhitches, free transmission repairs and blown cluthes from the teenage punks that their daddy bought for them, ETC. These examples are few examples. When I'm at work tommorow, I'll start remembering more FREEBEES that we provide TO OUR CUSTOMERS, PAID FOR BY VW OF AMERICA. Also, the owner of our dealership, spends between $50,000 to $60,000 a year to cover things that are OUT OF WARRANTY.
Now on CAR54's constant reminder on faulty mass air meters and broken window regulators clips, both of them, if they fail before 2 years or 24k miles, will be covered under warranty. If it failes between 24k and 30k it may still be fully covered or prorated to a certain percentage to help out the customer. Again payed for by VWoA.
Some of you may say the part may fail again, actually they haven't. The VENDOR that makes the regulator clips has the new and improved clips now installed. The clips were breaking from the heat expansion caused during the wamer months. The VENDOR (bosch) that makes the mass air meters have been providing us the new and improved parts. For those of you that ***** because your gasser needed a O2 sensor, quit blaming VW. The VENDOR (bosch) is taking the beating. Would I never buy a bosch product because of this, hell no. Bosch is an exellent company and SO IS VOLKWAGEN.
Car54 is always stating to buy a Merceds Benz. My dad specializes in Benz. I would love to own a Benz. Am I not going to buy one because they go throught motor mounts or need expensive valves jobs like BMW?
Am I not going to buy a Passat now because the 1990-1992 models were a pile of crap, no. The Passats now are the best VW's ever made. Earlier VR6 engines came with plug wire that would arc, oh my god, lets call VW and say their cars are junk now. Give me a break. The VENDOR (Bosch) have provided VR6 engines with the new style red plug wire since 97 with no problems. My 87 Audi 5000 quattro has had the same problems as most others with leaking stearing racks, broken front windor regulators, warped exhaust manifold, hydraulic pump and brake accumiltor. I would buy a new Audi no questions ask.

What I'm saying is that if there is a problem with a part and it fails, hey, it's under warrany if it's within the time and mileage coverage. If it's out of warranty, deal with it.

All auto manufactors have their quirks. Mosty caused by their VENDORS. The vendors learn from their flaws. They then redesign the parts. All autos are getting better over time.

For those of you who have HEALTH, happiness and a job compared to those who NOW don't and you have a car with a broken window regulator clip or a blown motor, QUIT YOUR *****EN. LIFE COULD BE WORSE.
For those of you who decide to trade you VW in for whatever reason, do the rest of us a favor and don't buy a a BIG SUV. If you do, drive it over a cliff.
VW is a damm good car company and I'll stand behind them and recommend a VW any time.
See ya, Michael.

 

[BMW Guy]

Ok you cross posted, so so will I, And I know thet 2 wrongs don't make a right
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> Michael,
It's great that you love your job, and it's great that you love VW, and its Wonderful to hear that you work for such a great dealer. The fact that the owner of the dealership spends his own money to fix out of warranty/not covered repairs vw needs more dealers like this. However they don’t have them. My dealership would NEVER do this why do I know this? I went to school with one of the owner’s kids. He described his dad as a tightwad SOB, I doubt he would spend his own $ on anything for someone other than himself..but that's neither here nor their.
VW is heading for a big transition in the coming years. The W8 Passat, a $40,000 car being sold/serviced with $17,000 cars, maybe a stretch, but probably possible. But it doesn’t stop there, an expensive sport utility, and the D1 lux sedan to compete with the likes of the new BMW 750il, and MB S-class. I would hate to be the service writer dealing with the first guy who just bought a $50,000 car and has a problem, and is being treated like some 20-year-old who just bought a golf.
Their is a reason why Toyota, Honda, and Nissan created new nameplates when they wanted to move upmarket. There is a reason you almost never see fully combined Chevy/Cadillac dealership. It's because you can't have the same people dealing with customers in the $15,000-$25,000 range and the customers in the $35,000+ range.
There is a reason why my screename is BMW Guy; I LOVE THE DAMM COMPANY. I Bought my first BMW for $6,000 and the first time I brought it in for service I was AMAZED! They practically asked me to bend over, gave me a pillow to rest my head on, and thoroughly KISSED MY ASS! Like I was a CEO, and had just bought a $90,000 7-series.
Every time I go for service I get a call from the dealership asking if everything was OK, on top of that BMWNA actually calls me to check up about every third, or fourth visit! And to top it all off if something wasn’t satisfactory I get called back again by a higher up to try to rectify the situation. THAT'S SERVICE!
That's one of the reasons I will always own a BMW! And That's what VW needs if they expect to compete with these automotive heavy hitters.
When I had a warranty issue that needed a reps attention, and the rep wouldn’t go for it I was offered to appeal to even higher management. Luckily the tech put hiss ass on the line, and straightened the situation out. I don’t believe Steve was ever offered an appeal to the Rep's boss was he?


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All auto manufactors have their quirks. Mosty caused by their VENDORS. The vendors learn from their flaws. They then redesign the parts. All autos are getting better over time.
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Then why is it that VW, BMW, and MB use a lot of the same VENDORS, and two out of the three are WAY! More reliable than the other? It's easy to put the blame on someone else isn't it?

I LOVE my TDI, I will tell everyone that, and I will tell everyone that their service and customer support outright SUCKS. It's not enough to build a great car, It needs to last, If we bought cars just to throw them away in a year or two their would be no issue here. But there obviously is and it needs to be addressed if you want repeat customers you must keep them happy for as long as they own the car! It’s not enough that someone loves their new car, everyone loves their new car. Ask someone with a 10 year old BMW, MB, Lexus, Honda, Toyota, Ect.. If they like their cars, and are happy with their dealerships. Now ask someone with a 10 year old Hyundai, or Chevy, or Dodge see what kind of answers you get.
Once again I LOVE MY CAR! I THINK IT'S A GREAT CAR. Am I looking forward to the future, HELL NO! But I knew what I was getting into, and truthfully if someone else made a Diesel I wouldn’t even be here.

Just My 2 cents

<hr></blockquote>

 

[msauve]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> I work for Volkswagen and some of you are blowing this way out. I work for the busiest VW dealer in the Northwest. <hr></blockquote>

Which is it, do you work for VW, or do you work for a dealer? There is a very significant difference, and AFAIK there are no VW owned dealerships in the US. I'm surprised at number of posters around here who are unable to distinguish between dealers and manufacturers, but to have someone who works for one of them act confused is amazing.

 

[Steve]

Michael,

We are not disatisfied with VW service simply because Turbo Steve's (modified) engine blew up and he was denied warranty service.

TS's engine was just the straw that broke the camel's back. We've been putting up with substandard VW service departments since we bought our TDI's.

We've been keeping our mouths shut and doing the service ourselves because we enjoy the TDI engine so much.

However, don't expect us to recommend a VW to someone else when we know that they will likely be screwed over when a warranty claim comes up or when one of the known faults such as window regulators or intake clogging occurs.

I've had both good and bad service experiences with VW. Unfortunately, most of them were bad.

 

[84ZZ4]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by karlkoenig:
Why don't all of you quit your *****ing and buy a GM product. The you'll know bad service/support first hand.<hr></blockquote>

LOL, yes, GM service is pretty bad. I've seen a few good dealers, but most suck.

OTOH... I have yet to hear of a Chevy dealer filling someone's new Camaro with diesel fuel

.

 

[tjl]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Modl:
The VENDOR that makes the regulator clips has the new and improved clips now installed. The clips were breaking from the heat expansion caused during the wamer months.<hr></blockquote>

When did the new and improved window regulator parts start being used in the manufacture of new VWs? I.e. which year's models are more and less likely to have the problem?

 

[No-Smoke]

Michael, Thanks for your post. It's encouraging to hear from the other side of this mountain. I have had great service from my dealer too, and have talked with several other VW customers who have had no problems with their dealer or warranty repairs.

The problem we have here is that not all dealerships are created equal and treat their customers the same. We all have been treated badly by a dealer in our car owner experience with whatever make or brand.

I'm glad to hear another opinion that tips the scales some back to VW besides mine. I know it's hard for the dealers to weed through the honest and not honest claims brought to them everyday.

Personally, I don't blame the dealers for turning down claims on modified cars. Modified engine, engine blows up, buy you a new one. VW should not have to prove anything. Non-modified engine, engine blows up, VW buys a new one. Customer should not have to prove anything.

But, I know that we don't live in a perfect world. The Bible promises us a perfect world in the future and I am looking very much forward to that day (could come today, are you ready?) But until then we will have to deal with less than perfect dealers, cars and people. (myself included by the way)

I know that all the guys on this thread feel that THEIR opinion in the RIGHT one. Maybe we should all take a minute and walk over to the other side and take a view from a different angle. WE ALL might be surprised what we see.

I bought a new Whirlpool refrigerator 2 years ago and just had to pay for a new motor. My 4 year old Toshiba big screen TV went out. Cost me 5 hundred bucks for a new part. Would I buy these brands again? Sure would. I got good survice but since the parts that went out were not covered by the warranty at that time, I had to pay. Cost me some money, had hoped it would not, satisfied with explanation, got them fixed. Should these parts have lasted longer than they did? I thought so. Will they improve them in the future? I was told they have. Will I buy these brands again? Yes.

Simple enough for me but difficult maybe for someone else. It's not when or if we face difficult situations or decisions, it's how we deal with them that matters the most.

Lets stand up for what is right, but only what is right. We shouldn't compromise our character for a cause that has questionable basis. Remember, you can win a battle or two and still lose the war and get severely wounded in the process. you can be on the right track and still get run over by the train.

I wish you all well in your quest for justice. God bless you all!!!

 

[dcarroll]

Who is this No-Smoke guy? a VW mole?
I have a bone stock '99 NB that NOBODY but my dealer has touched and only for regular service and a defective fuel filter that they put in. I don't trust VW or their dealers to do the right thing.
When my fuel filter was found to be defective, the dealer didn't step up and tell me, "we put it in; it was defective; we'll pay for everything." Instead I had to catch them on it - "didn't you install that filter with the 20K service?". First the guy says, "I'll check on it." He comes back to the phone 5 minutes later (like it wasn't on their computer listing for me?) and says "the part is covered". I say "what about the labor? Your defective part caused the problem." He then offers to cover that also. Next I pointed out to him that although I had $50 of towing coverage on my auto insurance, it had cost me $80 to have it towed all the way to his dealership. I was still out $30 not to mention being stranded and then without my car for several days. Instead of offering me to do a free oil change or some such decent way to make it right, he says if I write a letter and send them the towing receipt, maybe VW will cover it. Even if I believed that was better than a one-in-ten chance, it would not be worth my time to do this. OK so he won that round, but it makes me VERY unlikely to be a repeat VW customer unless this crap changes.
If No-Smoke wants to talk accountability and standing up for your own problems, how about VW announcing a recall and replacing their lousy design so that windows work as they ought to do? (By the way, I've had a number of GM cars - great vehicles, good service, no warranty hassles, and AMAZING power windows that go up and down for the life of the car without breaking.)
From my reading of the MM act and cases brought in connection with it, I think No-Smoke is off-base. Companies have to PROVE that something you did CAUSED the failure. They aren't supposed to just claim this and refuse to investigate. I would expect that if you paid for your own investigation in such a case, and it showed nothing to prove you caused it, then VW would not be in a pleasant position in court. They know this full well; they're just figuring that few of those they screw this way will follow through to nail them in court. They balance the cost and do what they think is the cheaper course. Nice accountability, eh?
OK, so that's the logical side of why No-Smoke is All-Wet. What's with this name-calling, insulting, impugning of motives and character, accusing of bad conduct, etc? Who the blank does this jerk think he is to sail into this forum and trash people who have more of a track record than he'll ever have.
If it smells like a VW mole and acts like one ...