Turbo Not Working, Car Ok To Drive?

[dfriedz]

Hi all,

I'm looking for assistance and advice. VW Golf TDI 2015, in the US. The car is giving two codes: P2563 and P00AF; flashing glow plug indicator along with the check engine light is on. The vehicle seems fine to drive, though the turbo has stopped working as acceleration has decreased. Brought the car to the mechanic and their next step is to replace the wastegate, however I'm planning to go on a trip tomorrow several hours each way on the freeway. Is there any cause for concern that driving the vehicle could cause further damage, or could the car enter a full on limp mode?

Otherwise, would the extra warranty from the VW diesel-gate emission sandal potentially cover parts of the turbo like this? I'd guess not, but thought to ask.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]

One thing I would be concerned about is if the turbo is damaged, then it is possible that all the oil that normally lubricates the bearing will be just going out the exhaust pipe. You’d soon be low on oil.

It depends what’s wrong though, It could be that nothing is mechanically wrong with the turbo, and the problem is just a damaged connector or something.

Basically, without knowing exactly why the turbo doesn’t work, it’s difficult to say it won’t be a problem on a long trip.

If you’re going to do it anyway, then check your oil frequently for the first couple hours. If it doesn’t change, then you’re probably okay. If it’s getting lower and lower, that’s not good.

 

[dfriedz]

Thank you for the reply, Mike.

I'll keep an eye on the oil as you suggested. I also found that the turbo charger is covered under the extended warranty settlement, https://www.vwdieselinfo.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen3_Final.pdf

' Parts Covered Under Extended Warranty The emissions system warranty shall cover the following parts or systems:  The entire exhaust after treatment system, including the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, the Diesel Particulate Filter, the Selective Catalytic Reduction converter, the dosing injector and other Diesel Exhaust Fluid system components, the exhaust flap, and all sensors and actuators  The entire fuel system, including fuel pumps, high pressure fuel rail, fuel injectors, vibration damper, pressure control valve and all sensors and actuators  The EGR system, including EGR valves, EGR cooler, EGR filter, EGR temperature sensor, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and actuators  The turbocharger, including the turbocharger damper  The On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, including SCR DEF quality sensor, and any malfunctions detected by the OBD systems other than those related to the transmission. Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train . The extended emissions warranty includes parts, labor, and applicable taxes. The extended emissions warranty shall not void or supersede any existing warranty. Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer. '

Based on this info, it seems like I should check with / bring the car into a VW dealership rather than my typical 3rd party independent mechanic.

 

[P2B]

Hi all,

I'm looking for assistance and advice. VW Golf TDI 2015, in the US. The car is giving two codes: P2563 and P00AF; flashing glow plug indicator along with the check engine light is on. The vehicle seems fine to drive, though the turbo has stopped working as acceleration has decreased. Brought the car to the mechanic and their next step is to replace the wastegate, however I'm planning to go on a trip tomorrow several hours each way on the freeway.

Your car does not have a wastegate to replace.

I would advise against driving the car any distance with a flashing glow plug light, especially if there is a possibility the issue will be covered under warranty.

 

[ticaf]

Also if oil gets past the bearing into the exhaust, that's a good way to kill your DPF.

 

[740GLE]

Your car does not have a wastegate to replace.

I would advise against driving the car any distance with a flashing glow plug light, especially if there is a possibility the issue will be covered under warranty.

It does have a VNT actuator that can seize/or fail and lead to the same codes the OP stated. Dealers sometime gloss over terms with us Muggles as I think Vw technically calls it "boost control circuit" or something like that covering typical Gasser wastegates and VNT turbos.

A simple vacuum leak at the actuator can also cause the same codes as the VNT is vacuum operated, with electromechanical feedback.

Heck there are now VNTs on gassers, I wonder how those are working out after 50-100K and not having the diesel soot for keeping things greasy.

 

[dfriedz]

Following up after a little while. I took the car on the trip and it was okay enough.

Since returning to Chicago I brought the car into the VW Dealership on 4/10 and they replaced the entire turbo system and then also the DPF filter since that threw a code as well and wouldn't clean itself (all covered under the extended warranty thankfully). During this 3 week fiasco, they replaced the turbo system first, then I took the car back for several days while waiting for the DPT filter to come (turbo still was not functioning)- that's when I started hearing an intermittent whining/groaning noise sometimes when driving sometimes when idle. They then replaced the DPF filter, and I've been told the car is performing as it should. The best they could tell me was they diagnosed it as needing to replace the N75 VACUUM VALVE and also a wheel bearing (which I hadn't noticed any vibration or issues with at all).

I've been quite annoyed with how slow and poor at communicating with me they have been and don't have much confidence in them; they also quoted me $800 to replace that part which seems quite steep - looking it up briefly online it shows less than $100. Can I just buy and replace it on my own without much of a hassle? Will pick up the car tomorrow and take it on a road trip again (back to Michigan) for several days.

Thank you again, everyone.

 

[Cuzoe]

Wheel bearing isn't too bad to replace. You'll need to pull the axle out of the hub. I think I unsecured ball joint from the LCA, tie rod from the knuckle and endlink from the strut which let me move it outboard enough to clear the axle. It's a hub/bearing assembly and the screws for it come in from the "backside" of the steering knuckle.

The whole think is kind of a pain on jack stands but can (and has) been done. You will need someone to stand on the brake pedal when it's time to torque the new axle bolt. It's some quite high value plus 90 degrees. We'll just say I now own a higher quality breaker bar then when I started (used for the + whatever degress only of course, not the initial torque).

And you'll want to follow the exact procedure of torque, + whatever, with weight on the car/not on the car. I don't remember the sequence. But you risk damaging the bearing if you don't do it the right way. Probably not immediately noticeable but more of a reduced life issue.

 

[dfriedz]

Sorry, I wasn't specific. I wouldn't replace the wheel bearing on my own. If I replace anything on my own, it'd be the N75 VACUUM VALVE they referred to, is that difficult to do or more than just buying the part online determining where it is and replacing it?

 

[740GLE]

Why would they replace the turbo and not address a bad VNT actuator under the same warranty ticket?

As for DIY i believe if you have the tools and are limber enough it is do able from a DIY stand point.

 

[740GLE]

The whole think is kind of a pain on jack stands but can (and has) been done. You will need someone to stand on the brake pedal when it's time to torque the new axle bolt. It's some quite high value plus 90 degrees. We'll just say I now own a higher quality breaker bar then when I started (used for the + whatever degress only of course, not the initial torque).

Placing the wheel back on and lowering on the ground is the best way to fully torque that axle bolt back up. Just do your first torque value still up in the air.

Also a screwdriver in the vented rotor resting against the brake caliper bracket is another one man option to set that first torque value.

I was amazed my little M12 stubby 1/2 impact was able to get the axle bolt off.

 

[Cuzoe]

Yea, I can't remember the sequence, but I think final 180 might be on the ground anyway. I need to get one of those M12 impacts... although I have no intention of messing with the axle bolts again. I think I removed it easily enough but getting that extra rotation is where I broke my cheap breaker bar, with the handle from my floor jack over it for leverage think... hell it was downright dangerous .

 

[rocky raccoon]

Wheel bearing replacement is not a Black Art. You need not go to the dealer for that. Any moderately competent general repair shop can do it.

 

[turbobrick240]

The key is finding the cheapest possible aftermarket hub. Kidding- though that's pretty much what I did on my Mk6 last summer. I broke my breaker bar getting the axle bolt off on mine, lol. It seems like we're assuming it's a front bearing issue. Even easier to R&R if it's a rear bearing.

 

[Cuzoe]

It's not a hard job, it's an annoying one, lol

 

[Nuje]

Definitely one of those "it's just ~10 nuts/bolts to remove and replace" jobs, but almost none of them is "easy".

I was amazed my little M12 stubby 1/2 impact was able to get the axle bolt off.

I'm literally incredulous. I'd be suspicious that the axle bolt wasn't tightened to spec.

Prior to getting the big gun, I had to jump up and down on a ¾" bar (after having snapped the ½" breaker bar) to get the full 180° after initial torque, AND that bolt has thread locker on it.
I have a lot of the red tools, including a number of M12, but there's no way anything short of my M18 ½" impact with the High Output battery would be able to break that loose.

 

[740GLE]

no one had touched the axle bolt since leaving the factory. . .

I have a video of it as I was in the same mindset it wasn't gonna go, but was surprised. I even had a 2" extension, I did have a 6.0ah battery in it. Took only the first few hits to start it moving and about 6 seconds to have the axle fully removed.

It was a 12 point axle bolt and it had what looked like red thread sealer on it so not sure if that has lower spec torque than in your mind.

check out the torque test channel on YT, they have quite a bit of reviews of those M12 stubbies, they have been a surprising favorite

 

[Nuje]

200Nm + 90° + 180° (plus red thread sealer (or locker?))
(Edit: Posted instructions / spec from the wrong manual previously; removed image and posted corrected version and spec (200Nm+180°) a few messages down.)
(He informs the group, as he simultaneously begins shopping M12 compact impacts )

(Image removed)

 

[740GLE]

it claims 250ft break away. . .

i think a new compact in the black and yellow variety, may actually out nut the M12 these days, but i've had this m12 since 2019ish.

I was able to use a long screw driver in the vented rotor to set that 150ftlbs, one person job.

 

[Cuzoe]

I've got pretty painted Macan calipers, keep those screw drivers away from them. The 200Nm/150ftlbs wasn't the issue if we want to call it that. It was the additional 90 degrees. I don't recall having too much trouble taking the bolts out.

 

[turbobrick240]

I got mine good and tight up on jacks, then another 45° or so down on the ground. My hub came with a 6 point 24?mm axle bolt with pre applied thread lock, but I reused the factory 12 pt bolt.

 

[Cuzoe]

Don't the six points take an additional 180, or something like that? I can't say I'm on board with reusing any stretch bolts, haha.

And I'm on suspension setup 11 I think. I've got a small fortune wrapped up in single use hardware, haha.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeah, the different torque figures are interesting. I'm not too worried about reusing the bolt- it's pretty stout and I couldn't discern any deformation. I had a conversation with the dealership parts guy once when I was picking up some TTY hardware for my brake calipers, and he told me the technicians generally don't replace the TTY bolts unless they're really crusty. I can usually spot areas of deformation/stretch on the smaller TTY bolts, and don't reuse those.

 

[Nuje]

My bad: pulled from the wrong manual.
The Mk7 (MQB) manual states 200Nm + 180°
The fact that you had a 6-point bolt (no mention of it in the Mk7 manual; the 6pt option (and note that this was for axle *nuts*, not bolts) has been mentioned in other instructions, like the Mk4) AND it was able to be loosened by that M12.....methinks someone was in there before you.

 

[turbobrick240]

My bad: pulled from the wrong manual.
The Mk7 (MQB) manual states 200Nm + 180°
The fact that you had a 6-point bolt (no mention of it in the Mk7 manual; the 6pt option (and note that this was for axle *nuts*, not bolts) has been mentioned in other instructions, like the Mk4) AND it was able to be loosened by that M12.....methinks someone was in there before you.

The other Volvo guy used a Milwaukee impact. I broke my 1/2" breaker bar breaking the 12 pt loose. No chance a little impact would have freed mine. The 6 pt bolt came with the $40 aftermarket hub I installed. Maybe I should have used the new 6 pt bolt, but I'm not losing much sleep over it. I will check the original bolt I reused for tightness in the very near future, though.

 

[dfriedz]

I don't know enough about the N75 vacuum valve to know if it's related to the turbo system or covered under the general extended warranty with the vehicle.

Bringing the discussion back to the N75 vacuum valve, the car has been performing well otherwise (there's a different issue related to the HVAC system, as seen here but I assume unrelated... https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/ac-cold-on-one-side-only.527870/ ) . I notice a sound sometimes when turning the car off of air pressure dissipating for a few seconds, which I'm assuming is related to why they wanted to replace the N75 vacuum valve. No other driveability issues/symptoms, so my questions are:

1. Do I need to replace this vacuum valve?
2. Is there anything wrong with living with this little bit of noise?
3. What might happen if it fully stops functioning?
4. Should I buy a replacement part and swap it?

Thank you, everyone.

 

[P2B]

The N75 controls the turbo. The one in my MK4 has been making that noise on shutdown for a few years now. It works fine otherwise and the noise doesn't bother me, but I did throw a spare from the parts car in the trunk a while back just in case.

 

[Nuje]

I will check the original bolt I reused for tightness in the very near future, though.

From what I was told, the torque on the that bolt is what sets the pre-load on the hub bearing; and not getting tightened sufficiently will lead to premature failure of the bearing.

This was actually borne out for me by my parents' 2009 Jetta a number of years ago: did the wheel bearings, but didn't have the tools to get the bolts tight enough - figured 200Nm+~100° would suffice....had to replace the bearings again within a year.