Turbo Gernade... Questions

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
As i was pulling out of my neighborhood just a few days ago, my turbo exploded. it was an unmistakable noise. not so loud, distinctive POOF that sounded like it came from under the car/ behind the car. then no power, and black smoke in the rearview. as my car has over 200k and ive been tuned and nozzled for over a year now, it was almost expected.

i had trouble with overboost in the past and after chaising the problem, replacing lines, n75, and actuator; i pulled the turbo off to give it a clean, and found the VNT to be quite sticky... i cleaned it, soaked it, etc until it was no longer sticky, but i knew i was on borrowed time.

Being paranoid, and somewhat expecting this to occur, i pulled of the road and cut the engine quickly, (100 yards total distance from pop)

the engine did NOT run away, but after pulling the intercooler, it seems that another 3 seconds and it would have... i dumped, probably, about 2 quarts of oil out of the intercooler, and lower pipe. I also found bits of metal. some rather large (as big as a dime, and thicker than a nickle). the upper pipe was basically dry. rather, as dry as id expect it to be any other day. (not running a catch can) and had no metal that i could detect.

i plan to

1 pull the oil pan, and clean it out, as well as the pickup screen. (in case the oil return line dumped shards into the sump)
2 fresh TDT and Filter
3 New Turbo feed line
4 New return line
5 Turbo (17/22 hopefully)
6 OMI
7 thoroughly clean charge air piping, intercooler

from what ive read people suggest a compression test, is this for runaway situations, or is it necessary?

any other suggestions?

what would people say about running the 17/22 with a stock downpipe for a few weeks? straight pipe. (malone stage 2 tune)

Thanks in advance.
 

bradamoniom

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Location
Acton,California
TDI
2000 Jetta
I had the same exact thing happen to me. Well, I was racing another TDI right before my turbo failed. I put in a 17/22 and also had the TB done at the same time. I had Matt-98AHU come done and do the install. We were unable to complete the turbo install because the lower inter cooler pipe would not fit over the larger turbo. So I just got the "upgraded intercooler piping'' from idparts. I was able to reuse the oil return line and oil feed line. Didn't drop or clean the pan. All of my oil as well as metal fragments were stuck in the intercooler. I clean my intake and EGR while I had the chance.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 

Nate242

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Location
Tigard, OR
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI
I just went thru the same thing, but I only lost a small chunk off the compressor impeller and it never started to pump oil into the intake.
I was actually able to limp it home ~ 17 miles by staying below 5psi (risky I know).
I ended up going with a 17/22, OMI, and upgraded lower pipes from IDparts. I also bought the new oil line which was a good thing because even with my best effort to save the old one it still twisted. All in all it went together pretty well, though it helped not having any egr stuff to deal with. I did grab some t-clamps from napa because the stock ones were stretched to the extreme in a few places, so plan on needing some additional clamps.

After driving it for a few days I had Mark give me an updated tune to reduce the lag a little bit and am now running stage 3. I have a eurojet smic on the way since my max egts went up at least 100° F but am undecided on what to do with the exhaust. I'd like a Whitbread downpipe but they aren't available atm. I think you will be fine for a while but may just have to take it easy so your egts don't get too high. I do notice that I don't overboost at all anymore, so that is a huge improvement. Hope this helps.
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
Good to know nate. ill keep all these things in mind, but hopefully i can fit an "ugly downpipe" in my budget.

Brad, how long ago did this happen?i really just want to make sure pieces of metal didnt get into the crank case. after spending $2500 getting the car back on the road and taking care of any loose ends id hate to find that i need to rebuild the engine for scored cilynders toasted rings, main bearings etc.

A TB isnt a bad idea, since i can do it myself why not. probably get the car up and running then do the timing belt, just to make sure im not 'crossing any wires' so to speak.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
...All of my oil as well as metal fragments were stuck in the intercooler. I clean my intake and EGR while I had the chance.

Don't bet on that... When a turbo blows up and frags, it's amazing how the pieces will blow right by the intercooler. You can bet you have shotgunned pistons.

However, as long as the compression is good, you have less worries.

But here's what to do...

If there is oil in the intercooler, you can bet it made it to the cylinders. If you lost more than a qt of oil from the pan, it's possible to bend a rod. It only takes 24cc's to fill the combustion chamber in the piston. Any more than that, you bend a rod.

Before you check compression, you first have to be sure that there is no residual oil left in the pistons. That would require running the engine long enough to burn out the oil from the cylinders. Then, without residual oil in the pistons, you will be able to get a accurate read for compression. A cylinder with particularly low compression will have a bent rod.

Also, we get a lot of questions about the engine burning oil after the replace turbo and restart. They will smoke like a bomb.

Any oil that went through the engine from a broken turbo shaft will go right out the tail pipe. The muffler can hold about 2 qts of oil. After the oil has burned out of the engine and the cat, the oil in the muffler can take HOURS to burn away. A real mosquito killer... You will be hated by the neighbors and anyone within a mile.

You can drill a pinhole into the very bottom of the muffler and let it drip out. That can take a while, but it's better than being a 'smoke bomb'. After all has dripped out that is going to come out, you still are going to be smokey for a while. Take a highway run for about an hour.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
"It only takes 24cc's to fill the combustion chamber in the piston. Any more than that, you bend a rod."

Wow, that's a little over 1-1/2 tablespoons.

--Nate
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
alright. i will definitely perform a compression test before ordering anything. i know there are compression testing kits for tdi's for sale from a number of vendors, but is it possible to check with a standard kit, that i can rent/borrow from a local autoparts store?

if not, where is the best deal?
 

CoolAirVw

Vendor
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
Jetta
i didn't read all the replies, someone might have said this but you'll need to flush the metal out of the intercooler.

Back flush it with a garden hose then some brake kleen or alcohol to get the water out then stick a fan on it for a day.
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
will do:)

Also a compression test will be done this eve. i swung by harbor freight and purchased the diesel compression tester. (which they had in stock. odd i thought)

anyone know if this is a straight forward test on the ALH, i have found some people had to modify the fittings to work with 1Z and some other engine codes...
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
"It only takes 24cc's to fill the combustion chamber in the piston. Any more than that, you bend a rod."

Wow, that's a little over 1-1/2 tablespoons.

--Nate

Yup...1.6 tbs = 24cc's to be exact.

I think I'll use 1 1/2 tbs measure from now on. People can relate to that better.

For your Horrible Freight purchase, throw away the schrader valve that comes with it and put in a good one.
There are two fittings that look much the same(10 x 1.0 and 10 x 1.25). Be sure to use the 10 x 1.0
Don't overtighten the fitting. Snug is good enough.
Run compression with the fuel shutoff wire disconnected
Remove all g.p.'s
Make sure the battery is fully charged.
Run the test until the gauge peaks.
Any measurement more than 10% off is too much.
 
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Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
thanks franko... my fittings are not labeled but to be sure i just made sure the threads of the one i selected locked into the threads of an old glow plug i had laying around (to insure the threads where the same, if that technique rings a bell to you)

unfortunately i know all to well that a cross threaded/broken glowplug means............
 

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
thanks franko... my fittings are not labeled but to be sure i just made sure the threads of the one i selected locked into the threads of an old glow plug i had laying around (to insure the threads where the same, if that technique rings a bell to you)

unfortunately i know all to well that a cross threaded/broken glowplug means............[/QUOTE


As Frank said don't over tighten the fitting.Good luck
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
Just for the archives the harbor freight diesel compression tester worked without modifications. i did have a little trouble getting it to snap on over #3 cylinder. but with a little playing around it did fit.

i did replace the schrader valve although i dont know that the original was bad... gauge didnt leak with the $2 replacement schrader, so whatever.

all cylinders read out virtually the same, falling somewhere between 410 and 420 after 6-8 revs, and didnt really want to climb any higher with say 10-12 revs. is that accurate? who knows but it was consistent along all 4 cylinders. and safely within the "new car standards" published in my Bentley.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. off to order parts. =D
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
UPDATE

so i have accumulated all the parts necessary to upgrade the entire intake, and charge air system, as well as a full turbo back

OMI from Kerma
vnt 17/22 from Kerma
lower intercooler pipe from IDparts
godspeed SMIC from ebay
3" turbo back exhaust from Kerma
all new lines gaskets hardware etc from kerma
a few odd parts from ECS, and 034

btw anyone looking for exhaust studs in stainless can look at 034

+
SBC stg 2+ and smf
Evo Atlas skidplate
3bar (to be installed later) from IDparts

i have performed a valve cover off inspection and "flush" with rotella t6, then pulled the pan and cleaned thoroughly. found one piece of metal, which i know was new, as the pan was only a month old...

i have cleaned the upper intercooler pipe, intake manifold and my stealth egr pipe (no metal pieces detected)

i did perform the Compression test as recommended by Franko6, which turned out good. am i in the clear? Should i pull the head to inspect the cylinders and pistons, or would this be overkill?

i did find that the shaft was broken on the turbo (obvious i guess, but confirmed anyhow, and the exhaust side was basically in good shape appearing to have no egt damage, aside from the shaft of course)

any input would be appreciated

of course immediately up on my list after putting the car back on the road will be
Boost, egt gauges
injector nozzles
tune (and swapping in the 3bar)
and upper intercooler pipe (the oe upper will be the home of my 2.5bar while awaiting tune)

CCV will run to catch-can, then vent into exhaust via modified 02 bung (unless i find any negative reviews) opinions?
(this will make detecting oil in the charge system much easier in the future)
 
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