Turbo Clean

[Bhavick]

Hi,

I was thinking of removing the turbo out of my mk4 1.9 tdi and taking it apart and cleaning it as the car keeps going in to limp around 60mph. I just wanted to ask from people who have it done before are there any 1 time use bolts that should be replaced once they have been removed. I know there's pins, rollers etc etc, but how about the 3 torx bolts are they one time use? When reassembling the turbo what's the best way to align the turbo so the oil feed line and return are straight? I know people recommend replacing the feed line with a braided one as the OEM has a banjo bolt and the return has a gasket in between should probably replace that too am guessing.

For cleaning it i think am gonna use some carb cleaner and a scotch bright cloth, i don't want to risk scratching any of the surfaces too much.

Thanks

 

[csstevej]

Are you sure you have to remove it?

Have you checked to see if the actuator is working correctly?

Does the lever move freely?

If you put an open end wrench on the lever can you move it from stop to stop without any crunching noises?
If you can get it to move from stop to stop after a while I’d try to drive it to red line several times to maybe help burn off the carbon that binds up the ring . These cars need to be redlines at least once a week to help,keep the vnt mechanism clean .
Me personally, I’ve done about 10 turbos R&R either through failures or frozen vnt levers. I’ve taken many apart some successfully…..some not ( broke the CRH while hammering it apart , frozen by rust ).
I’ve never had to replace hard ware or the gaskets , some people will flame me for this…so be it.

The oil feed line you need to be careful removing otherwise you will be replacing the line and then I recommend the steel braided one. I cut done and ground a wrench to fit and hold the fitting that screws down into the turbo , then spray a penetrating oil onto the nut and with the ground down wrench in place work the nut back and forth to break it loose.
When I reinstall it I put some high temp antisize under the head of the nut on top of the flare so it doesn’t seize , never had an issue removing them.

When you go to separate the CRH from the exhaust manifold use a torch ( not a flash light ) , heat is your friend here along with some penetrating oil. And use a brass drift or some other soft metal against the housing with a hammer.
Be patient and use lots of heat and penetrating oil , this is how I broke 2 of them.

Once apart I used oven cleaner and soaked everything that’s on the hot side , removed the lever , and vanes.
Before you remove anything index with a marker or grease pencil….better yet take pictures of everything as you go along .
Don’t worrying about scratching anything it’s harder than you think…I’ve used 400-600 grit sandpaper to remove any nicks or burrs I’ve come across.

Reassemble in reverse order and set your actuator to open at around 3-5 inches of vacuum and be fully open at 18.

Enjoy the power and remember to red line your car once a week .

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I also agree, taking pictures during the disassembly of the turbo and the vanes is crucial.
Before you remove the control ring pay close attention (take picture) of the orientation of the slots in the ring. Next to the actuator arm there are 2 slots that parallel the ring, one is short and one is long.
If you get them backwards, the travel of the actuator will be minimized, I know as I did that once.
As far as cleaning goes, I too have used carb cleaner and emery paper on the control ring.
I did not grind down a wrench, so I purchased a flexible oil line.

 

[JackvasDeferens]

Check out this video on understanding overboost.

He's got a couple of videos on diagnoses, turbo removal, and rebuilding.

 

[DivineChaos]

Check out this video on understanding overboost.

He's got a couple of videos on diagnoses, turbo removal, and rebuilding.

You know rich is on here right?

 

[DivineChaos]

Hi,

I was thinking of removing the turbo out of my mk4 1.9 tdi and taking it apart and cleaning it as the car keeps going in to limp around 60mph. I just wanted to ask from people who have it done before are there any 1 time use bolts that should be replaced once they have been removed. I know there's pins, rollers etc etc, but how about the 3 torx bolts are they one time use? When reassembling the turbo what's the best way to align the turbo so the oil feed line and return are straight? I know people recommend replacing the feed line with a braided one as the OEM has a banjo bolt and the return has a gasket in between should probably replace that too am guessing.

For cleaning it i think am gonna use some carb cleaner and a scotch bright cloth, i don't want to risk scratching any of the surfaces too much.

Thanks

Do you know the limp mode code? Or are you guessing this is causing it.

 

[03TDICommuter]

I've done this twice now. Liberal soaking of Kroil on all bolts to get them out, and anti-sieze when putting it back together. Do not put anti-sieze on the rollers or pins for the rollers.
- the control ring only goes on one way. Any other way and you can't line up with the control lever.
- the exhaust half and the center rotating section can only fit one way also - no worries about getting the angle off and not lining up with the oil feed or return lines.

I washed the vane section, rollers and pins in a pie tin with a little gasoline in it, and a toothbrush. I used 1800 grit (I think) sand paper on a granite block to face off the sides of the vanes to remove any burrs. The gasoline helps to dissolve any sludge gumming up the shafts of the vanes. Use compressed air to clean.

The whole area the control ring sits in, was scraped clean with a small flat tip screwdriver.

I re-used all bolts, including the torx head bolts securing the vane assembly. BE SURE to line up the vane assembly correctly so the locating/keying pin is in the right spot for assembling the turbo halves back together. It can go on in one of three positions and only one is correct.

 

[JackvasDeferens]

You know rich is on here right?

I didn't. I'm new to this forum. My apologies if I have committed an error by posting the video.

 

[DivineChaos]

I didn't. I'm new to this forum. My apologies if I have committed an error by posting the video.

Your good man. I'll see if I can find him

 

[DivineChaos]

I didn't. I'm new to this forum. My apologies if I have committed an error by posting the video.

@CoolAirVw

 

[Bhavick]

Are you sure you have to remove it?

Have you checked to see if the actuator is working correctly?

Does the lever move freely?

If you put an open end wrench on the lever can you move it from stop to stop without any crunching noises?
If you can get it to move from stop to stop after a while I’d try to drive it to red line several times to maybe help burn off the carbon that binds up the ring . These cars need to be redlines at least once a week to help,keep the vnt mechanism clean .
Me personally, I’ve done about 10 turbos R&R either through failures or frozen vnt levers. I’ve taken many apart some successfully…..some not ( broke the CRH while hammering it apart , frozen by rust ).
I’ve never had to replace hard ware or the gaskets , some people will flame me for this…so be it.

The oil feed line you need to be careful removing otherwise you will be replacing the line and then I recommend the steel braided one. I cut done and ground a wrench to fit and hold the fitting that screws down into the turbo , then spray a penetrating oil onto the nut and with the ground down wrench in place work the nut back and forth to break it loose.
When I reinstall it I put some high temp antisize under the head of the nut on top of the flare so it doesn’t seize , never had an issue removing them.

When you go to separate the CRH from the exhaust manifold use a torch ( not a flash light ) , heat is your friend here along with some penetrating oil. And use a brass drift or some other soft metal against the housing with a hammer.
Be patient and use lots of heat and penetrating oil , this is how I broke 2 of them.

Once apart I used oven cleaner and soaked everything that’s on the hot side , removed the lever , and vanes.
Before you remove anything index with a marker or grease pencil….better yet take pictures of everything as you go along .
Don’t worrying about scratching anything it’s harder than you think…I’ve used 400-600 grit sandpaper to remove any nicks or burrs I’ve come across.

Reassemble in reverse order and set your actuator to open at around 3-5 inches of vacuum and be fully open at 18.

Enjoy the power and remember to red line your car once a week .

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. I did initially use mr muscle by spraying it into the hot side of the turbo by removing the downpipe, that did work temporarily as first my car was going to limp mode in the lower gears but now it's happening at higher speeds. The actuator rod was extremely difficult to move by hand at first i almost hurt my hand just trying to move it initially. You just gave me an idea I've got a handheld vacuum pump so i was thinking if i couldn't move the actuator rod by hand i could use the vacuum pump and move the rod up and down a couple of times and then maybe take it for a spirited drive maybe that might loosen it up without having the remove the turbo completely? Also just to be safe what pressure should i pump up the actuator rod too on the vacuum pump?

A couple of videos i watched a lot of them use a rubber mallet when trying to split the intake and exhaust side of the turbo as they say it seizes together which i can imagine.

I didn't think i would need to adjust the actuator rod as i was under the impression that i would just be removing the rod from the turbo and not actually adjusting the rod length by using the stop screw if that's the correct word for it.

 

[Bhavick]

I also agree, taking pictures during the disassembly of the turbo and the vanes is crucial.
Before you remove the control ring pay close attention (take picture) of the orientation of the slots in the ring. Next to the actuator arm there are 2 slots that parallel the ring, one is short and one is long.
If you get them backwards, the travel of the actuator will be minimized, I know as I did that once.
As far as cleaning goes, I too have used carb cleaner and emery paper on the control ring.
I did not grind down a wrench, so I purchased a flexible oil line.

OK i will definitely take pictures if i decide to disassemble the turbo don't want to get anything like that wrong. How do you ensure the oil feed line and return are in line with each other? A couple of videos i watched they recommend fitting a new braided oil feed line so i was thinking of doing that also.

 

[Bhavick]

Do you know the limp mode code? Or are you guessing this is causing it.

Scanned the code with VCDS and got this code:

P1557 Charge Pressure Control: Positive Deviation.

The first time limp mode happened it turned out the vacuum line going to actuator had a hole in it so i replaced all of the lines with silicones one and that sorted it out initially but am almost certain it's because the vanes are blocked up inside now as I've already done the mr muscle clean once and actuator rod was extremely difficult to move, I've people say you should be able to move it with light finger pressure which definitely wasn't the case for me!. Shame really because I've heard a lot of people say that you need to give the car a run every so often to keep the turbo clean but as this does mostly city driving and it doesn't really get the drive it needs often enough.

 

[Bhavick]

I've done this twice now. Liberal soaking of Kroil on all bolts to get them out, and anti-sieze when putting it back together. Do not put anti-sieze on the rollers or pins for the rollers.
- the control ring only goes on one way. Any other way and you can't line up with the control lever.
- the exhaust half and the center rotating section can only fit one way also - no worries about getting the angle off and not lining up with the oil feed or return lines.

I washed the vane section, rollers and pins in a pie tin with a little gasoline in it, and a toothbrush. I used 1800 grit (I think) sand paper on a granite block to face off the sides of the vanes to remove any burrs. The gasoline helps to dissolve any sludge gumming up the shafts of the vanes. Use compressed air to clean.

The whole area the control ring sits in, was scraped clean with a small flat tip screwdriver.

I re-used all bolts, including the torx head bolts securing the vane assembly. BE SURE to line up the vane assembly correctly so the locating/keying pin is in the right spot for assembling the turbo halves back together. It can go on in one of three positions and only one is correct.

Thanks you've just answered most of my questions lol especially about lining up the feed and return lines as it only goes one way that shouldn't be a problem but worth taking pictures i reckon like other members have suggested just in case. Did you just put anti sieze on the torx bolt as you said don't put any on the rollers and pins? I've heard some people say that bit of the thread come out when you try and remove the torx bolts.

 

[03TDICommuter]

Thanks you've just answered most of my questions lol especially about lining up the feed and return lines as it only goes one way that shouldn't be a problem but worth taking pictures i reckon like other members have suggested just in case. Did you just put anti sieze on the torx bolt as you said don't put any on the rollers and pins? I've heard some people say that bit of the thread come out when you try and remove the torx bolts.

Both the Beetle and the Jetta, no threads pulled out when I removed the torx bolts. The beetle, one of them did gall on the way out, but not much. I did run a tap into the hole to clean up the threads, but the original bolt went back in. Whatever you do, don't force any of the fasteners. Soak it early with Kroil or PB blaster before knocking the halves apart, then as you loosen the torx bolts, as soon as they loosen, spray some on them too so it can get into the threads.

No anti-sieze on the rollers or roller pins.

When you take the turbo halves apart, look at the lever where the control arm is for the control ring. Near that is a pin, and that aligns with a hole on the VNT assembly.

 

[Bhavick]

Both the Beetle and the Jetta, no threads pulled out when I removed the torx bolts. The beetle, one of them did gall on the way out, but not much. I did run a tap into the hole to clean up the threads, but the original bolt went back in. Whatever you do, don't force any of the fasteners. Soak it early with Kroil or PB blaster before knocking the halves apart, then as you loosen the torx bolts, as soon as they loosen, spray some on them too so it can get into the threads.

No anti-sieze on the rollers or roller pins.

When you take the turbo halves apart, look at the lever where the control arm is for the control ring. Near that is a pin, and that aligns with a hole on the VNT assembly.

How long would you say is sufficent to soak it with Kroil or PB blaster before splitting the turbo apart, i am going to get a rubber mallet too in case i need gently tap it around the sides to help it come loose. I will defintley put some on the threads of the torx bolts i guess that will help the bolts go back in again with minimal resistance. Would you recommend anything to use on the actual torx bolts before undoing them as i've heard they can become seized in also? I know some members suggsted turning the bolts slightly clockwise and then turn them the otherway.

Thanks

 

[csstevej]

A rubber mallet won’t cut it…..been there.
Get a brass drift pin or round stock of aluminum about 1/2 to 9/16 diameter and use that hat with a regular hammer.
Soak with penetrating oil as suggested and use a torch on the steel casting.
Stay on the thickest part of the CRH and don’t go Mongo on it……some patience and heat and it will come apart.
Instead of using you fingers to move lever try an open end wrench , I forget whether it’s a 9/16 or 14-15 mm wrench , just fits it and will help you move it mechanically.
3” to start moving fully open around 18-20. The minty vac I have can only pull to around 25-26”of vac.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I have tried many times to no avail separating the cartridge from the exhaust manifold.
A mechanic friend of mine uses 50%50% transmission fluid and acetone, and tells me he has had good luck every time. My never having transmission fluid in my garage left me out to try it.

 

[Bhavick]

Hi,

Thanks guys for all your help i really appreciate it

 

[03TDICommuter]

I soaked mine at least a day ahead of time. And yeah, a rubber mallet won’t cut it. I used a copper 3lb sledge but used it gingerly. Once it starts to separate, spray more on blaster/ kroil

 

[Bhavick]

When it comes to refitting the turbo are there any head studs or anything on the head that helps you align the manifold so you can put the bolts back in a bit easier? I was just thinking that working from behind the engine visibility won't be great.

 

[csstevej]

Yes there are the exhaust manifold bolts that stick out from the back of the motor that the nuts are attached to that hold the turbo/ exhaust manifold to the back of the motor. You will have to remove your intake manifold.
If doing this remove your rain cowl just below your wind screen…… it gives you much more room.

 

[Bhavick]

Yes there are the exhaust manifold bolts that stick out from the back of the motor that the nuts are attached to that hold the turbo/ exhaust manifold to the back of the motor. You will have to remove your intake manifold.
If doing this remove your rain cowl just below your wind screen…… it gives you much more room.

Thank you, you've been a great help I was thinking of getting a replacement manifold gasket and also a braided oil feedline as i hear the OEM can get blocked up over time. I was also thinking of getting some replacement torx screws just in case any of them break when trying to remove them. I've found a company in the UK who will probabily be able to supply these part but i reckon they will ask for the OEM part number of the turbo to ensure i get the right bits but am assuming you can't see the part number of the turbo unless you remove it or is there another way of finding it?

 

[csstevej]

I’ve never had an issue with the torqx bits…..not to say that you won’t.
Usually the p/n for the turbo is either on a data plate on the side of the turbo or it’s etched into the aluminum on the flat part of the housing.
If the turbo has never been changed before it should be a stock turbo and they should be able to go off of an parts manual.

 

[Bhavick]

I’ve never had an issue with the torqx bits…..not to say that you won’t.
Usually the p/n for the turbo is either on a data plate on the side of the turbo or it’s etched into the aluminum on the flat part of the housing.
If the turbo has never been changed before it should be a stock turbo and they should be able to go off of an parts manual.

I've found a company in the UK called turborebuild they do a lot of VNT style turbo's, they have a eBay store so am gonna drop them a message about these torx bolts see what they say should be able to help. I did contact my local VWparts dealer but they said they don't deal with any internal turbo parts!

Thanks again

 

[BobnOH]

...................snip............................ but they said they don't deal with any internal turbo parts!...................snip............................

That's because turbo chargers are not considered a simple rebuildable parts. For good reason. I wonder if you couldn't just drop the whole unit in a parts washer.

 

[Bhavick]

That's because turbo chargers are not considered a simple rebuildable parts. For good reason. I wonder if you couldn't just drop the whole unit in a parts washer.

I've heard of people putting the parts in a ultra sonic cleaner, not sure if anyone has experience using one of these?

 

[BobnOH]

Most automotive machine shops and some mechanic shops have tub of parts cleaner with a pump, they simply drop stuff in there for however long. Usually it's disassembled stuff. My big concern would be if this type clean would damage a turbocharger.
Ultrasonics are nice, we used to use those to clean drafting pen tips and such.

 

[fatmobile]

gpop shop sold me some torx bolts but they were allen head.
You can probably just find some allen head replacements locally
maybe fastenal.

The flats on the adapter fitting for the oil feed line should line up parallel to the parts on each side when tightened down.
You might need a thicker/thinner crush washer to achieve this
Because later on when the line needs to be removed,
you can slide your custom ground-down 17mm wrench
on the fitting and hold it while you loosen the line nut.
Easier than pulling turbo line and all then spinning it off with the adapter.

I have tried spraying dry moly on the vanes and moving parts and they
didn't stick again.
Carbon was just flaking off on one I had to pull apart later.

That fat cupped washer next to the exhaust wheel,
put it back on the right way or it will spin with the turbo, doh.

And I have learned from csstevej to run the torch around the edge
before I take the cartridge off the exhaust.
I have a cutting torch that I use.
Don't hit the cutter.
Back and forth around the outer edge until red follows it.
Then I can try tapping.
I have 2 cracked center cartridges too.

If a bolt breaks off in the exhaust you might be able to turn it red and hit the cutter to blow it out.
Looks like cast doesn't melt as easily.

 

[Bhavick]

I was just wondering I know a lot people opt for a braided oil feed line over the stiff OEM one but is it really necessary to change it? Can you not just clean the original one and reuse it again or is that not advisable once you've removed it?

Thanks