Turbo advice - 1Z powered bus

[markd89]

Hi,

I have a Malone tuned 1Z in my 78 VW Bus. It runs well. I get 30+ mpg (or 45+ around town). I can cruise at 75 MPH which for a bus is good. Acceleration is much better than stock. Downsides are that it has a good bit of blowby and oil usage. I'm putting in 1/3 to 1/2 quart every 400 miles. It smokes under acceleration in certain circumstances and I've just been living with that. I get 17-18 psi max boost.

My setup is 1019 DLC injectors, stock turbo, dual air-water intercoolers, no MAF. I am not looking for max power. I think my clutch and trans can handle a little more torque but really just looking to clean up my exhaust. I plan to run less than max fueling to keep the torque down.

I've been talking with @burpod about doing a new tune for me and he's more experienced with VNT turbos and we both agree that my stock turbo is a bottleneck on getting more air through the engine. So I'm looking at turbos.

I'm looking to achieve those goals and do it in an easy-ish way. I have access to a good mechanic ($) for anything I can't do but otherwise I have to work on the street. My idea would be to get a new turbo, figure out the air plumbing, oil lines ahead of time and then do the swap itself in half a day at the mechanic shop. The turbo is original from an Ohio car so I'm expecting fasteners to be rusted/corroded.

I traded emails with xmanturbos and they recommended the WG turbo gt1749s which runs 20-22psi max, but as they explain it flows more air at those pressures so it's actually a good amount more than what I am currently getting. the down-side is that it's a WG turbo so I'm not really benefitting from burpod's experience and existing tunes which are for VNTs. It'd be more go-arounds to get the tuning good. So I figured I should stick with looking for a VNT like burpod suggests.

burpod is suggeting a GT 1856v and 24 psi max. I'm not looking to spend a fortune and that turbo is a bit spendy, but really making the project easier for burpod, myself and the mechanic ($) is going to save or cost more than $200, so trying to keep that as big picture.

Any input much suggested.

Thanks --
Mark

 

[burpod]

well, i think a gt1856v would be a good turbo, it's simple and cheap and works very well IMO. have tuned a half-dozen in various setups and no complaints for a vanagon, especially. it's geared pretty low and the transmissions are a weak link generally, so you probably don't spend a lot of time <1800rpm demanding heavy fuel where the 1856 might be a little "laggy". it will move a good amount of air and tuned right, can have excellent boost control with virtually no lag >2000rpm.

personally, i think if you're going through the effort of redoing the downpipe and fiddling with boost pipe connections, i think a GTD would be the better option. simple and superior v-band clamp for the downpipe flange (the 3 stud flange is a rather crappy setup), more efficient, probably easier to get better boost control in the tune. all the new gen turbos are welded onto a manifold to fit the 1.9 tdi and it seems most of the time the compressor outlet pipe is modified for fitment on the average mk4 setup. so that might not be ideal in the vanagon, i'm not sure how things are going to be routed on there. but that might be an added annoyance for fitment.

gtd1449vz would be a little on the small side for my desire in a vanagon, but supposedly good for ~25psi (sea level). being out west, i'd want a little more boost headroom for trips into the mountains. gtd2060vz is perhaps "too big". i like these options because they are both journal bearing and prices on powertdi are hard to beat. but i don't readily see any size in-between. if there were a gtd 1756/1856 journal bearing i'd probably be all over that. perhaps xman, muchboost or some other places have other options...

 

[markd89]

Thanks @burpod for adding your thoughts. I wonder how much of my smoke is accelerating from lower RPM's - i.e. if that 2000 RPM makes a difference or not. I have a 1000 RPM idle and then, of course, am giving it throttle when I am accelerating from a stop and changing gears. I will keep an eye on it as I drive. Is the gt1856v, for example moving more air than my little stock turbo at 1500 RPMs?

 

[burpod]

it's only going to move more air when the tune is requesting more boost. the 1856v, with everything right in the tune, is more than capable of happily cruising along efficiently at 1500rpm, but there's not a lot of airflow going on there. that wouldn't be where the benefit of a larger turbo would come into play. it will move more air with a lot less restriction when you're "zooming" along the highway doing 2700-3000rpm or whatever it is exactly with your gearing in the vanagon. at that rpm, the tiny gt15 is a restriction slowing things down.

as for your current smoke and any issues, i know what i believe to be the cause of that, knowing what's in the ecu now. it's most likely contributing to the high amount of blow-by.... IMO

 

[adamss24]

You have many journal turbos to choose from, some are very good and ready for serious power on their native platform.
A very cheap turbo is the gtb2056vl from Volvo, another one is the gt2056v from the Vito/ML 3.0 tdi, the Audi gtb2056vk is also a very good turbo -rarer but still available. You then get to the new, gen 4 vnt gtd2056vz from bmw, and also the Audi one …
Personally I would use a gtb1756vk, it’s easy to fit, works very well out of the box and it’s easy to upgrade later on…the larger cores fit in the exhaust housings so you only need to do the exhaust once !
The gtb 1756vk is designed to move heavy Audi A6 c6 2.7 tdi quattro and the 40mm turbine option spools very well from tickover !

 

[GTiTDi]

I know of at least a couple guys running GT2052S wastegate turbos in Vanagon AHU/1Zs with good results. Cheap turbo that flows well and responsive with the right tuning. An E-Vac CCV setup would help those rings seat better.

 

[markd89]

I know of at least a couple guys running GT2052S wastegate turbos in Vanagon AHU/1Zs with good results. Cheap turbo that flows well and responsive with the right tuning. An E-Vac CCV setup would help those rings seat better.

Thank you!

re: Turbo. @burpod is going to check one of his tunes against a local wastegate car and then send me a baseline tune for my current setup. We'll generate some logs from that.

re: Turbo/E-Vac. I think I will be upgrading the turbo next. Right now I have a cat and a muffler. I'm suspecting that the cat is probably full of oil and am thinking about deleting both that and the muffler when the new turbo goes on. I'm thinking (?) that noise won't be too much due to the turbo muffling sound and then the engine being in the back. Is that a good assumption? That would then be a good time to plumb in the E-Vac. Do you have pics of your setup?

Thanks!
Mark

 

[lemoncurd]

gtd2060vz

i second this turbo choice
really, GTD anything bigger than 2XXX with a proper tune will be really good. all the spool, all the flow, all the boost.

 

[markd89]

i second this turbo choice
really, GTD anything bigger than 2XXX with a proper tune will be really good. all the spool, all the flow, all the boost.

Thanks much. I looked at https://en.powertdi.pl/turbina-gtd2060vz-do-19-20-tdi-na-moce-320-km and that turbo is rated for 300 hp. For my setup, I'd be tuned for a lot less to preserve the trans. It's also water cooled so I'd have that complication. I appreciate the ideas though. The plan is to get some logs, etc. from a tune for my current turbo, but I'm quite sure that I will be getting some new turbo and would like to buy that before the end of the year so still weighing out which way to go.

Thanks and appreciate all comments and suggestions...

 

[burpod]

afaik, you don't *need* to hook up the water-cooled part of the turbo - but it's there if you are pushing big fuel and high EGTs. it's certainly way more turbo than you need, probably *too* big although i'd be curious to see how it would perform in the lower rpm 1800-2200 in a van. i think an step or two down like "1752-1856" size gtd would be ideal. but that's the turbo i want next time i have time/$$

 

[GTiTDi]

afaik, you don't *need* to hook up the water-cooled part of the turbo - but it's there if you are pushing big fuel and high EGTs. it's certainly way more turbo than you need, probably *too* big although i'd be curious to see how it would perform in the lower rpm 1800-2200 in a van. i think an step or two down like "1752-1856" size gtd would be ideal. but that's the turbo i want next time i have time/$$

I definitely want one for my mk2. @lemoncurd you should buzz up this way to meet up with burpod and I

 

[dieseldonato]

Hook up the water cooling, it there to keep the cartridge at a happy temp. No real downside to hooking it up, save a bit of plumbing. I'm skeptical it's actually a journal bearing since it comes with an oil resteictor and water cooling. Thats classic of a ball bearing turbo.

 

[burpod]

Hook up the water cooling, it there to keep the cartridge at a happy temp. No real downside to hooking it up, save a bit of plumbing. I'm skeptical it's actually a journal bearing since it comes with an oil resteictor and water cooling. Thats classic of a ball bearing turbo.

true. i tend to forget sometimes that descriptions can often be wrong... one would hope it's correct

 

[dieseldonato]

true. i tend to forget sometimes that descriptions can often be wrong... one would hope it's correct

I hope so..... I've been eyeing it up since you texted me the link to it.....

 

[Zak99b5]

Hook up the water cooling, it there to keep the cartridge at a happy temp. No real downside to hooking it up, save a bit of plumbing. I'm skeptical it's actually a journal bearing since it comes with an oil resteictor and water cooling. Thats classic of a ball bearing turbo.

The KKK K03 turbo on B5 1.8Ts is certainly journal bearing and water cooled. And it's a tiny turbo.

 

[dieseldonato]

The KKK K03 turbo on B5 1.8Ts is certainly journal bearing and water cooled. And it's a tiny turbo.

The oil restrictior is what makes me think it's a ball bearing turbo. There's no down side to a water cooled turbo weather journal or ball bearing. They (ball bearing) usually just need more of a mist to operate, much more and the bearing can essentially hydroplane in their races. Typical journal bearing turbos, the more oil the better. (Up to a point.) The flood of oil also take a lot of the heat out of the cartridge, you don't have that will a ball bearing turbo. Just an oddity of the add. I guess it would be simple to clear up dropping them an email.

 

[jimbote]

Running a GT1749VC BMN chra in a BMM maninfold on my ahu vanagon. Very quick spool and capable. It is vnt so a retune and vnt n75 would be required. Planning on running a straight BMM gt1646 on my syncro alh. It's a PD140 turbo so plenty of headroom for a vanagon swap. The BMM is the same configuration as a BRM, turbo up high with exhaust toward front of engine. Clears the mount perfectly and makes for a short exhaust run.

 

[jimbote]

Pretty sure i paid less than $250 shipped for that BMM gt1646v. It's also third gen vnt which lends to much easier reclocking if needed.

Turbocharger Bmm Fits for VW EOS (1F7, 1F8) 2.0 Tdi 03G253010 | eBay

Since there are always discrepancies in this list, the following should be noted. Even if your vehicle matches our data, that does not mean that everything fits. Since the manufacturers may make production changes in the current models. It is a selection aid but not 100 % Guarantee!!!Please...

www.ebay.com

 

[markd89]

Pretty sure i paid less than $250 shipped for that BMM gt1646v. It's also third gen vnt which lends to much easier reclocking if needed.

Turbocharger Bmm Fits for VW EOS (1F7, 1F8) 2.0 Tdi 03G253010 | eBay

Since there are always discrepancies in this list, the following should be noted. Even if your vehicle matches our data, that does not mean that everything fits. Since the manufacturers may make production changes in the current models. It is a selection aid but not 100 % Guarantee!!!Please...

www.ebay.com

Thanks!

Wow that is lot less cost than the new turbos I have been looking at. I'm guessing there's an adapter to convert the outlet for a standard hose?

I hadn't been thinking about a used turbo but that would save a lot from the new ones I have been looking at. That one has 231KM but there's others I found with lower mileage. I also found this one new https://www.ebay.com/itm/314758189670 $450 shipped. It's from Europe but wonder if it's really Chinese? At least with a used one, I know it was an OEM manufacturer.

Mark

 

[jimbote]

Right?! A hose can be adapted using a billet vnt17 clip adapter. I had a piece of aluminum tubing welded to mine to better interface with my intercooler setup. Also uses a stock brm type exhaust v band flange.

 

[markd89]

Couple more questions..

I'm currently running the EGR cooler and EGR valve. I think I had turned it down in VCDS. I recall that EGR was supposed to lower combustion temps and so, was a good idea. With the new turbo should I be deleting the EGR system?

 

[dieseldonato]

Delete it.