TURBO: 2012-2014 Passat turbo failures [discussion thread]

[CarbonVW]

Did you his post at least this part?
What does he say,? Brakes job?

I don't understand what your asking. There is a special tool, or what you can call it a custom tool that Volkswagen supplies us, that go into the rear most subframe bolt holes to keep the sub frame in place but just lower and not shift. If it shifts you can mess up caster and camber.

Brake jobs. As in replacing the rotors and pads.

I was giving examples of repairs that don't have anything to do with alignments but customers come back and complain that their car is now out of alignment.

Am I explaining this correctly? Anybody else confused on what I was saying?

 

[CarbonVW]

So, do all the NMS have this tendency to drift to the right? It's mildly irritating to me and I know it's not due to the crown of the road.

If you car is drifting on a perfect level road then I would see the dealer about it. If they say its good ask of you can ride with the tech or go on the test drive with them. Personally I hate warranty alignments they don't pay nearly what it takes to do but I do them. So they might say its ok when it's not, but when you ride with them and show them that it's drifting on a straight road it's hard for the tech to wiggle out of that one.

 

[CarbonVW]

Special tool???? For brake job to make alignment did not move?? How do you guys to a brake job, are you removing subframe or something?
Also I thought turbo is just bolted from the top at fire wall, so there is not enough space to get wrechet, so you have to lower motor to get bolts clamp?

The turbo is on top close to the firewall yes. But you have to drop the sub frame to remove the DPF to remove the turbo. The DPF is by far the hardest thing I've ever tried to remove in a Volkswagen. But what I do and some other techs to is remove the minting plate to the DPF. Remove the intermediate motor mount. Ratchet strap the motor to tilt it. Wiggle the DPF down enough to get it out of the way of the turbo fold. Then wiggle the turbo fold/turbo out of the rear of the engine. My way no dropping of the subframe is required.

 

[phlfly]

The turbo is on top close to the firewall yes. But you have to drop the sub frame to remove the DPF to remove the turbo. The DPF is by far the hardest thing I've ever tried to remove in a Volkswagen. But what I do and some other techs to is remove the minting plate to the DPF. Remove the intermediate motor mount. Ratchet strap the motor to tilt it. Wiggle the DPF down enough to get it out of the way of the turbo fold. Then wiggle the turbo fold/turbo out of the rear of the engine. My way no dropping of the subframe is required.

So I understood right, the turbo is bolted to DPF at lower point that impossible to get there without either moving the engine away from the firewall or dropping whole assembly;DPF and turbo.

That's a pita

 

[Mbmaring]

I have had Vw diesels since an old quantum turbo diesel in the 80's then 2 TDI Jettas an 04 passat tdi and now the 12 passat tdi. The older VW diesels were trouble free for me to 250,000 miles. We did have the turbo fail just before 10,000 miles on the 2012 and after all the reports of turbos failing and some the second time I am losing faith in the new VW diesels. Looking at it 2 ways don't worry and trade it before 60,000 miles for another one before the warrenty ends or at that time switch to gas and be able to drive the car 250,000 miles without haveing to worry about regens or the turbo failing. I do not think they have this emission system bullet proof yet and after learing how the system works I would not buy another car, tractor, or truck with this type of system untill they iron out the problems.
I have been through some of the same issues with the emmison systems on newer semi trucks and my older trucks just keep running with no issues.
I hope VW comes up with an explaination on why these turbos are failing and come up with a plan to prevent them from failing in the future

 

[wdb]

'12 Passat 14609 Miles - whining noise sometimes augmented with a slipping noise started in last days. Brought it to the dealer yesterday and they report the car is not drivable due to a problem with the turbo and they're awaiting part delivery.
While not expressly defined as require is there a cool down period - e.g. run at idle time - recommended as good practice?

It took a week - mostly to get the parts. Findings: Impeller fins deformed on exhaust side. Impeller touching housing on intake from excessive play.

Turbo replaced.

The dealer provided a 2013 w/2.5L Passat as loaner; while thankful for it I'm glad to have the TDI back.

 

[psd1]

I do not think they have this emission system bullet proof yet and after learing how the system works I would not buy another car, tractor, or truck with this type of system untill they iron out the problems.
I have been through some of the same issues with the emmison systems on newer semi trucks and my older trucks just keep running with no issues.
I hope VW comes up with an explaination on why these turbos are failing and come up with a plan to prevent them from failing in the future

The problem is that this "new" emissions system has been new since 2007, and it is still causing issues for manufacturers.

 

[DonC]

I have had Vw diesels since an old quantum turbo diesel in the 80's then 2 TDI Jettas an 04 passat tdi and now the 12 passat tdi. The older VW diesels were trouble free for me to 250,000 miles. We did have the turbo fail just before 10,000 miles on the 2012 and after all the reports of turbos failing and some the second time I am losing faith in the new VW diesels. Looking at it 2 ways don't worry and trade it before 60,000 miles for another one before the warrenty ends or at that time switch to gas and be able to drive the car 250,000 miles without haveing to worry about regens or the turbo failing. I do not think they have this emission system bullet proof yet and after learing how the system works I would not buy another car, tractor, or truck with this type of system untill they iron out the problems.
I have been through some of the same issues with the emmison systems on newer semi trucks and my older trucks just keep running with no issues.
I hope VW comes up with an explaination on why these turbos are failing and come up with a plan to prevent them from failing in the future

While I commend VW as to their response for providing repairs at no cost to owners with turbo failures I agree 100% with Mbmaring. Nothing is worst to dampen enthusiasm and demand for an otherwise fine vehicle overall than to NOT investigate and come up with a solution to future potential failures by those who anxiously await a real turbo correction whether it be via a TSB or a FULL statement as to the cause of failure and corrective action to be taken by VW and the dealers BEFORE a subsequent turbo failure. Awaiting answers just leads to doubt by future customers to purchase an otherwise fine automobile. The more time it takes for VW to identify and correct this issue for current 2012/2013 the more people will become disillusioned with the current TDI model and may even affect future models as people abandon this TDI.

 

[TommyTuTone]

Any way to avoid a bad turbo on a new Passat TDI SEL?

Hi all,

My first post! I've been hanging around for some time and finally signed up.

I am very close to buying a 2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium. I'm a little nervous due to the reports of issues with the turbochargers that I've learned about here.

Is there any way to avoid this issue? For example, do the failed turbos share a common manufacturer, or did they come from multiple sources? My idea, if possible, is to try and avoid a car with a turbo made by that certain manufacturer, if it's more failure-prone.

Any guidance anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[TommyTuTone]

You're absolutely correct. I am ready to pull the trigger on a new Passat TDI SEL Premium, but have held off pending more definitive news on the turbo issue.

 

[CarbonVW]

Lets put it this way,your gonna have a turbo failure if you own a 12/13 just expect the worse. But at the same time VW still to my knowledge doesn't have a fix to stop it from happening. Therefore I believe it's a manufacturing defect. They are not going to replace every single turbo on everyone's car because the simple fact is not everyone is going to have this issue. They've sold gobs of these tdi's and there maybe 250 cases USA wide. The 2.0 is bullet proof I haven't had to replace anything but turbos and emission parts on these cars. That being said the emission part I have replaced is the ad blue module. 3 times and that's it.

 

[DonC]

Let's put it this way.....if people considering buying a new 2013 Passat TDi reads and believes the above post...you just helped them put the skids on their considered purchase. Why would anyone want to buy a TDI now with the potential of a turbo failure in their near or far future? Replacing it is one thing but what about getting stuck on a long trip knowing it could happen at any time. I know that ANY car can break down BUT a break down of this magnitude will take more than a day or two to fix and can leave one stranded miles from their original dealer and at the mercy of the closest VW dealer. Saying that if you own a 2012/2013 you WILL have a turbo failure may be the nail in the coffin for sales if VW doesn't come up with answers or solutions to give those of us who already own one some peace of mind.

 

[VWJayhawk]

Pretty sure it is all the same manufacturer...but what isn't clear yet is if it was a specific batch/time period that was faulty, or if it is a design flaw throughout the production.

 

[VWJayhawk]

Let's put it this way.....if people considering buying a new 2013 Passat TDi reads and believes the above post...you just helped them put the skids on their considered purchase. Why would anyone want to buy a TDI now with the potential of a turbo failure in their near or far future? Replacing it is one thing but what about getting stuck on a long trip knowing it could happen at any time. I know that ANY car can break down BUT a break down of this magnitude will take more than a day or two to fix and can leave one stranded miles from their original dealer and at the mercy of the closest VW dealer. Saying that if you own a 2012/2013 you WILL have a turbo failure may be the nail in the coffin for sales if VW doesn't come up with answers or solutions to give those of us who already own one some peace of mind.

I think he is just trying to be helpful...as he mentioned a few words past that, it is well less than 0.01% that have had a failure. Let's not chase CarbonVW away by saying he is going to kill TDI sales.

 

[TommyTuTone]

Lets put it this way,your gonna have a turbo failure if you own a 12/13 just expect the worse. But at the same time VW still to my knowledge doesn't have a fix to stop it from happening. Therefore I believe it's a manufacturing defect. They are not going to replace every single turbo on everyone's car because the simple fact is not everyone is going to have this issue. They've sold gobs of these tdi's and there maybe 250 cases USA wide. The 2.0 is bullet proof I haven't had to replace anything but turbos and emission parts on these cars. That being said the emission part I have replaced is the ad blue module. 3 times and that's it.

What's interesting to me is this ... I queried the salesperson about this issue, and he freely acknowledged that it has been an issue. But his defense was, "What are you worried about, it would be covered under warranty anyway".

Well, what if it fails after warranty expiration? I know most fail early-on, but still ... I plan to keep the car a long time, and would prefer not having this potential issue always in the back of my mind ...

 

[South Coast Guy]

Car comes with a warranty, and generally VW has been good about covering defects after the warranty period (HPFP).

 

[collector_edi]

I'm getting one as well this week. It is being swapped with another dealer and I have no idea what the build date will be if that even matters. I see TDI's in my area not moving as quickly as they did when first introduced. I see build dates of 10/12 still on the lots.

 

[CarbonVW]

Let's put it this way.....if people considering buying a new 2013 Passat TDi reads and believes the above post...you just helped them put the skids on their considered purchase. Why would anyone want to buy a TDI now with the potential of a turbo failure in their near or far future? Replacing it is one thing but what about getting stuck on a long trip knowing it could happen at any time. I know that ANY car can break down BUT a break down of this magnitude will take more than a day or two to fix and can leave one stranded miles from their original dealer and at the mercy of the closest VW dealer. Saying that if you own a 2012/2013 you WILL have a turbo failure may be the nail in the coffin for sales if VW doesn't come up with answers or solutions to give those of us who already own one some peace of mind.

Chill bro. I was just saying expect the worst. We are one of the 3 dealerships on all of the west side of Michigan. And we are the biggest. We have done 4 turbos for the 100's of tdi passats we have sold. Not a single Jetta or golf has had a turbo done in all of west Michigan. So this is clearly a passat issue. And your question is dumb, why would anyone want to buy a car with issues. Well why would they? If they did buy a car with a known issue that's not smart on there part. But the point is this turbo failure is so minimal right now that most likely your not going to experience it.

I can say that next winter will be eye opening to see if this winter was a season to weed out the affected cars or there is an actual issue with all cars that needs to be addressed even further.

Last thing you should do is come after me. I have given everyone all the information I have had including pictures and the amount I have done and actually dished out some instructions myself. I'm not VWoA I don't care what you think and I'm not going to put out a recall for this car lol

 

[DonC]

I misunderstood your post Carbon VW. I thought you were posting that all turbos would eventually fail on these tdis. My error. Sorry Carbon
VW

 

[CarbonVW]

I misunderstood your post Carbon VW. I thought you were posting that all turbos would eventually fail on these tdis. My error. Sorry Carbon
VW

It's cool man, if all turbos we're going to fail I would expect VW to make a recall and to be honest it's still early in the retrospect of how long these cars are going to last

 

[psd1]

I do find the facts surrounding the reported failures interesting. A majority occurred during cold temps and none reported in the southern part of the country. To me this indicates that cold weather is a huge factor...but why wouldn't there be more reported failures in Canada?

Other than temps, there doesn't seem to be any other common traits. It does appear that the 2013 model year is effected a little more than the 2012's...but there are no reported failures on cars produced after November 2012.

 

[Salsaman06]

I've read this thread with keen interest since it began. A lot of good points have been made and a lot of information has been shared so far. But even so, there still are no conclusions or explanations. Only a few trends maybe and a lot of speculation at this point. But as time marches on and failures continue to be reported with no explanation from VW, I find myself slowly moving into the camp that is demanding VW for answers. And here's why - regardless of whether the statistics point to a small number of occurrences compared to numbers produced, this is not just some failed power window regulator problem. This is a major power train component failure that leaves you stranded by the side of the road with potentially weeks waiting for the repair and without your vehicle - and then the destroyed road trip or vacation plans and extra expenses that VW may or may not pay for, etc, etc. My point is that the numbers of failures alone , however small, cannot and will not serve to wholly diminish or eliminate a Passat owner's or potential owner's concern and desire for answers. Nor will the simple platitude "don't worry, it's covered under warranty." This is not just about the cost of repair that hopefully falls under warranty. This failure is egregious and can severely disrupt the owner's life. I personally am starting to lose confidence that my Passat won't leave me stranded somewhere in "B.F. Egypt" on a long road trip. For that reason, this is a much bigger problem than simple numbers suggest. The size of the problem cannot be defined by numbers alone - the impact of a single failure must be considered. Until we have answers, every level of concern from an owner (or potential owner) is warranted at this point. And given this Passat is still a "new model", we still don't know what the long term implications are. The trends here seem to suggest a cold weather problem. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. Maybe the cold weather accelerates the problem that would otherwise show up later in warmer climates. But that is speculation. And speculation breeds distrust and erodes confidence in the model and potentially the brand. But thats all we have right now, speculation. We need answers VW and hopefully, you are working on that soon. We are all watching and listening with great anticipation.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

No real way to avoid the issue that new owners are experiencing... so far VW has been taking care of that problem under warranty.

All 2012+ Passat turbos are the Borg-Warner (formerly KKK) BV40, which is smaller than the Golf/Jetta/Beetle's BV43 and provides quicker response and more torque in the lower RPMs.

I recommend monitoring EGT for longevity. Lots of specific details and explanations can be found in other threads. It's also a good idea to drive gently until the engine warms up.

 

[JdC Machine]

I brought this issue up to the dealer I bought my car from and asked about the chances of comparing the current turbo's part number to the updated unit's number. If it's the updated turbo, great. If not, can I request it be changed under warranty in order to avoid failure in the future? I was told yes, if it is not the updated unit. I go in for my first service on May 3rd. We'll see what they find!

 

[JdC Machine]

I've read this thread with keen interest since it began. A lot of good points have been made and a lot of information has been shared so far. But even so, there still are no conclusions or explanations. Only a few trends maybe and a lot of speculation at this point. But as time marches on and failures continue to be reported with no explanation from VW, I find myself slowly moving into the camp that is demanding VW for answers. And here's why - regardless of whether the statistics point to a small number of occurrences compared to numbers produced, this is not just some failed power window regulator problem. This is a major power train component failure that leaves you stranded by the side of the road with potentially weeks waiting for the repair and without your vehicle - and then the destroyed road trip or vacation plans and extra expenses that VW may or may not pay for, etc, etc. My point is that the numbers of failures alone , however small, cannot and will not serve to wholly diminish or eliminate a Passat owner's or potential owner's concern and desire for answers. Nor will the simple platitude "don't worry, it's covered under warranty." This is not just about the cost of repair that hopefully falls under warranty. This failure is egregious and can severely disrupt the owner's life. I personally am starting to lose confidence that my Passat won't leave me stranded somewhere in "B.F. Egypt" on a long road trip. For that reason, this is a much bigger problem than simple numbers suggest. The size of the problem cannot be defined by numbers alone - the impact of a single failure must be considered. Until we have answers, every level of concern from an owner (or potential owner) is warranted at this point. And given this Passat is still a "new model", we still don't know what the long term implications are. The trends here seem to suggest a cold weather problem. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. Maybe the cold weather accelerates the problem that would otherwise show up later in warmer climates. But that is speculation. And speculation breeds distrust and destroys confidence in the model and potentially the brand. But thats all we have right now, speculation. We need answers VW and hopefully, you are working on that soon. We are all watching and listening with great anticipation.

Well put!

I brought up the issue of recent turbo failures to the dealer I bought my car from and asked about the chances of comparing the current turbo's part number to the updated unit's number. If it's the updated turbo, great. If not, can I request it be changed under warranty in order to avoid failure in the future? I was told yes, if it is not the updated unit. I go in for my first service on May 3rd. We'll see what they find!

 

[TommyTuTone]

Well put!

I brought up the issue of recent turbo failures to the dealer I bought my car from and asked about the chances of comparing the current turbo's part number to the updated unit's number. If it's the updated turbo, great. If not, can I request it be changed under warranty in order to avoid failure in the future? I was told yes, if it is not the updated unit. I go in for my first service on May 3rd. We'll see what they find!

Let us know how this comes out. I had not seen any definitive answer as to a new part number or updated turbo established yet. Is that in fact the case?

 

[TommyTuTone]

I've read this thread with keen interest since it began. A lot of good points have been made and a lot of information has been shared so far. But even so, there still are no conclusions or explanations. Only a few trends maybe and a lot of speculation at this point. But as time marches on and failures continue to be reported with no explanation from VW, I find myself slowly moving into the camp that is demanding VW for answers. And here's why - regardless of whether the statistics point to a small number of occurrences compared to numbers produced, this is not just some failed power window regulator problem. This is a major power train component failure that leaves you stranded by the side of the road with potentially weeks waiting for the repair and without your vehicle - and then the destroyed road trip or vacation plans and extra expenses that VW may or may not pay for, etc, etc. My point is that the numbers of failures alone , however small, cannot and will not serve to wholly diminish or eliminate a Passat owner's or potential owner's concern and desire for answers. Nor will the simple platitude "don't worry, it's covered under warranty." This is not just about the cost of repair that hopefully falls under warranty. This failure is egregious and can severely disrupt the owner's life. I personally am starting to lose confidence that my Passat won't leave me stranded somewhere in "B.F. Egypt" on a long road trip. For that reason, this is a much bigger problem than simple numbers suggest. The size of the problem cannot be defined by numbers alone - the impact of a single failure must be considered. Until we have answers, every level of concern from an owner (or potential owner) is warranted at this point. And given this Passat is still a "new model", we still don't know what the long term implications are. The trends here seem to suggest a cold weather problem. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. Maybe the cold weather accelerates the problem that would otherwise show up later in warmer climates. But that is speculation. And speculation breeds distrust and erodes confidence in the model and potentially the brand. But thats all we have right now, speculation. We need answers VW and hopefully, you are working on that soon. We are all watching and listening with great anticipation.

Salsaman,

Well said indeed. I have owned two VW diesels in the distant past ('81 Rabbit and '86 Jetta) and have been high on the idea of a new Passat TDI SEL Premium. But you hit the nail on the head! I love a long road trip across the wide-open spaces of the west, and frankly I am very concerned about that turbo issue. The thought of a failure 200 miles from nowhere in the middle of AZ is enough to make me queasy. And, again, you are spot on that this is not a minor inconvenience. I coud deal with a crappy power window. A blown turbo is another whole issue. A ruined trip, potentially lost time from work, and huge expense and inconvenience, not to mention potential danger if it happened in the desert in the summertime, is enough to give me pause.

VW can count at least one lost sale (to me) until clarity on this issue is achieved.

 

[TommyTuTone]

I brought this issue up to the dealer I bought my car from and asked about the chances of comparing the current turbo's part number to the updated unit's number. If it's the updated turbo, great. If not, can I request it be changed under warranty in order to avoid failure in the future? I was told yes, if it is not the updated unit. I go in for my first service on May 3rd. We'll see what they find!

Is anyone able to confirm that an "updated turbo" exists? I have read all I can find on this issue as a potential new owner, and have yet to see anything like that. I hope you are correct; I want to get me new TDI!

 

[psd1]

Well put!

I brought up the issue of recent turbo failures to the dealer I bought my car from and asked about the chances of comparing the current turbo's part number to the updated unit's number. If it's the updated turbo, great. If not, can I request it be changed under warranty in order to avoid failure in the future? I was told yes, if it is not the updated unit. I go in for my first service on May 3rd. We'll see what they find!

What is the manufacture date of your car? I hope you got the "pre-fail turbo swap" in writing.

 

[psd1]

Is anyone able to confirm that an "updated turbo" exists? I have read all I can find on this issue as a potential new owner, and have yet to see anything like that. I hope you are correct; I want to get me new TDI!

If there is info on an "updated" turbo, no one has shared yet...