TURBO: 2012-2014 Passat turbo failures [discussion thread]

[VeeDubTDI]

I don't think reusing an engine that has seized (or died on its own) is a very good idea, especially when we're talking about warranty repairs.

 

[SilverGhost]

Well, true. And no body wants to stand behind a repair like that. Of course there are some dealers that are more worried about warranty cost per VIN and getting onto the next job faster.

It really was just a thought exercise. And in the excedingly rare senario where they don't call for the engine back, we now have a long block CKRA. I'm sure the dealership will turn it in for scrap metal value before letting one of us rebuild it for a project.

Jason

 

[VeeDubTDI]

It could be rebuildable, although I'm sure it will need all new bearings and perhaps connecting rods, too.

 

[oilhammer]

Any more, Volkswagen asks such stupid money for engine components that if it is not available in the aftermarket, you are better off just buying a whole engine.

 

[Salsaman06]

?....Of course there are some dealers that are more worried about warranty cost per VIN....

Im sure I am missing something here. Please help me understand why a dealer would be concerned about this. Isn't VWoA paying for the warranty work and therefore they should be the ones concerned about cost per VIN? If thats of any value at all.

 

[oilhammer]

Because a dealer can be audited on warranty repairs, especially if the cost goes crazy high on one car.

 

[SilverGhost]

And they use all kinds of metrics to determine cost share programs. Another example is we try to stock order as much as possible because rush ordering costs freight (now) and effects reimbursment programs for parts (later).

Basically cost per VIN will tell VW if you are trying to screw them. They have averages between all dealers and in different areas and if you are always higher or lower then you may be using warranty incorrectly and hurting their business. They will audit you to make sure everything is kosher.

There was no visible metal damage and there was still a couple quarts in the oil pan. I think it was idling and stalled when the turbo shaft broke. The starter has fusible links (brush wires) so it stops working pretty quick when the engine won't turn.

Jason

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I would say it likely stalled when it hydrolocked on oil from the snapped shaft. You mentioned that the intercooler has a significant amount of engine oil in it. A stopped turbo alone isn't enough to prevent the engine from turning. Maybe I'm wrong - it's strange that there were no low boost codes stored in the computer.

Did you check the DPF for signs of oil contamination? Did the new engine come with a new DPF?

 

[SilverGhost]

We actually have had a broken turbo stall an engine and prevent it from starting. Pulling the pipe off between turbo and intake alows the engine to start. I didn't believe it until my current shop foreman showed me on a car he was working on.

As far as how bad the hydrolock was - it is all speculation because they aren't paying me to tear it down. I'm taking an educated guess based on the puddle of oil sitting on the intake valves. I suspect the engine was already choking for air because of the way the turbo failed when it finally ingested some oil and stopped.

As far as the DPF I don't think any oil made it past the cat into the DPF proper. The EGT probe after cat/pre DPF was dry and the EGT probe before cat was only a little damp on one side.

The new engine was a long block - valve cover to oil pan, no timing components/coolant pump. Pretty much everything had to be transfered from old engine to new.

Jason

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Sounds promising, then.

 

[SilverGhost]

Yes, it does. At first I thought it had run out of oil and seized bearings. But the further I pulled it apart I changed my thinking towards the broken turbo effectively did the same as the ASV and the oil puddling was final straw that stalled the engine. Also the burnt up starter actually has overload protection that kicks in much earlier than I previously though, so not nearly as much cranking would have occured.

Jason

 

[kjclow]

And they use all kinds of metrics to determine cost share programs. Another example is we try to stock order as much as possible because rush ordering costs freight (now) and effects reimbursment programs for parts (later).

Basically cost per VIN will tell VW if you are trying to screw them. They have averages between all dealers and in different areas and if you are always higher or lower then you may be using warranty incorrectly and hurting their business. They will audit you to make sure everything is kosher.

There was no visible metal damage and there was still a couple quarts in the oil pan. I think it was idling and stalled when the turbo shaft broke. The starter has fusible links (brush wires) so it stops working pretty quick when the engine won't turn.

Jason

Just some musings from parts of this post, no need to respond directly but I'm sure there will be comments and I don't want to get another thread high jacked.

If VW monitors the warranty expenses so closely, then why can't they do a better job of weeding out the poor performing service garages? If the service department has X complaints over a period of 1 to 5 years, or sees a poor percentage of service related to sales, then VW should have the power to pull the dealer agreement.

 

[oilhammer]

Because SALES trump everything else.

Heinrich "Heinz" Nordhoff had a much better plan, but when he died, things changed forever at Volkswagen. Training to service the cars used to be paramount. They brought people in to train the techs before the dealer franchises were even set up to even receive inventory, let alone sell it.

I think the current management at VoA and VAG would do a lot of self help if they read the book The Small Wonder. Because a LOT of what that company pioneered has been abandoned.

 

[BPofMD]

Going back to reasons for turbo failure..... If you that have been on here for a good while you remember me mentioning that my TDI does NOT go to high exhaust gas temps ( over 800*)in 3rd (or any other) gear when accelerating during a cold start. That was in late spring, early summer. Today it was 31`-32* when I left the house. By the time I got out of my community the coolant temp was still below 100* and I let it accel in third up to about 3000 RPM's. The EGT (EG1) never got higher than 750 and I really had to stab the pedal to get it THAT high. As I wasn't up to operating temps I wasn't gonna push it any more.

Maybe a good reason why some of us never had a turbo failure? Maybe I have a different strategy tune that those that have had failures and high EGT's when the engine is not up to operating temps ????

 

[VeeDubTDI]

A video of your ScanGauge as you drive the first mile would be very helpful.

 

[tdiatlast]

^^^plus 1. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain about your claims, unless yours is simply way out of the EPA approved warmup routine.
It just doesn't make any sense. My 2014 does the blow-torch routine, and it was produced well after this discussion started and my No. VA dealership's awareness of the turbo issues.

Better have your car checked. It may be a heavy polluter because of its delayed warm-up routine! Plus you're probably clogging up your DPF...

 

[BlownBusa]

Going back to reasons for turbo failure..... If you that have been on here for a good while you remember me mentioning that my TDI does NOT go to high exhaust gas temps ( over 800*)in 3rd (or any other) gear when accelerating during a cold start. That was in late spring, early summer. Today it was 31`-32* when I left the house. By the time I got out of my community the coolant temp was still below 100* and I let it accel in third up to about 3000 RPM's. The EGT (EG1) never got higher than 750 and I really had to stab the pedal to get it THAT high. As I wasn't up to operating temps I wasn't gonna push it any more.

Maybe a good reason why some of us never had a turbo failure? Maybe I have a different strategy tune that those that have had failures and high EGT's when the engine is not up to operating temps ????

I was thinking the same as you until I programed my sgII to read the "correct sensor" as in VeeDub's how to...

 

[VeeDubTDI]

"Really stabbing the pedal" should result in 1000F+ pre-turbo very quickly.

 

[PassatSE4me]

The warm-up strategy would be the same for the manual and the automatic right?

I really need to break down and get a gauge to see what numbers I'm putting up during warm-up.

 

[jrm]

I also think that they have mini "warm up's" as one drives when temperatures dip, reason I think this is because im still burning summer blend diesel and only the Passat saw a drop in MPG's My Golf diesel and Cummins actually got better mileage with the cold brisk air. The Passat dropped from 53MPG average down to 42

 

[BPofMD]

If I can do a mov of the ScanGauge I'll try it....If the codes for the VW diesel on the ScanGauge web site is correct, that's what I am using.... I haven't run it yet today. The temps are right about freezing - oops up to 35 - but still cold enough to try.

Back later.....

 

[VeeDubTDI]

If I can do a mov of the ScanGauge I'll try it....If the codes for the VW diesel on the ScanGauge web site is correct, that's what I am using.... I haven't run it yet today. The temps are right about freezing - oops up to 35 - but still cold enough to try.

Back later.....

Can you verify which coding you are using? ScanGauge's website lists several.

The correct coding for EGT1 (pre-turbo) is...

TXD: 07DF0178
RXF: 054106780000
RXD: 3810
MTH: 00090032FFD8
NAM: EGT

 

[Lightflyer1]

Mine does it when I am leaving my neighbor hood at about 40 mph on cruise. I have noticed if I let off the accelerator pedal it seems to stop it. If I touch the brakes the warm up stops. It may start again, IDK I haven't watched it after that as I am already in a 60 mph zone.

 

[BPofMD]

Can you verify which coding you are using? ScanGauge's website lists several.

The correct coding for EGT1 (pre-turbo) is...

TXD: 07DF0178
RXF: 054106780000
RXD: 3810
MTH: 00090032FFD8
NAM: EGT

Mine will not work with that coding....
I use the CAN coding given in the ScanGauge site and it works for me. I have the video but can't get it to upload to my Photobucket account.... I'll try to figure it out....

 

[tdiatlast]

Ah-HAH!!!!

...thanks for continuing to work through this...

 

[BPofMD]

What does Ah-HAH mean? Running the video on my computer shows no temp higher than high 700's

 

[VeeDubTDI]

What does Ah-HAH mean? Running the video on my computer shows no temp higher than high 700's

No temp higher than 700F (ish) means that you aren't monitoring the pre-turbo sensor. Pre-turbo sensor should be able to achieve 1300F at full throttle pretty quickly.

Either that or your car is in limp mode, which I doubt.

 

[tdiatlast]

...hence the teasing "Ah-HAH!" My bet is that you're still running the wrong coding.

 

[BPofMD]

ScanGauge site says this is EG1 or pre turbo coding. Can you relist the codes you are using please. I will try again. Anyway here's the video from flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/budpytko/15834533691/

 

[VeeDubTDI]

ScanGauge site says this is EG1 or pre turbo coding. Can you relist the codes you are using please. I will try again. Anyway here's the video from flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/budpytko/15834533691/

Well then ScanGauge's site is wrong. I'm using the coding that I listed above, as are many other people.

Flickr says your page can't be found.