Tuning/chips advice, I know old topic...

[MATPOC]

I'm new, yes I searched 15 year old topics full of dead links, looking for some more recent knowledge/experience

I have a bone stock 2003 Jetta wagon ALH 5 speed, with 190k, looking for a mild tune that will improve power and driveability, not looking to break a bank. Probably will do injectors/nozzles now and clutch at some later date, it's still working, but 190k...

What I found so far is that Malone (now tunezilla) is the only one with clear answers, $150 for the device (or 50 to rent) and $250-300 for the tune, they list power and prices, mods required for each stage, also running a holiday sale, so seems like no brainer?

There were few others mentioned, I want to compare apples to apples, power, price, reliability, not just jump on the prettiest presentation of a product.

-RocketChip has no pricing, only gains listed are for Stage 2, no explanation on procedure or turnaround
-TDtuning seems dead end, no updated on site in 3+ years, no content
-KERMA sells Q PRO+ for $550 but doesn't explain what that includes, just a device or software as well? no HP/torque numbers.

Did I miss something?

 

[joevh]

I have no experience with the others, but did a Malone Stage 1.5 about 4 years ago, by renting a Tunezilla. A couple years later I had him update my glow plug tune for $40, and I bought a Tunezilla for it at that time, which I should have done in the first place. This fall I had him upgrade it to Stage 4, along with my install of a VNT17 turbo. The Malone tunes are very smooth and the throttle response is very linear, not touchy. It seems like most other tuners tend to front load the throttle to make their tune feel more powerful. My son has an identical BEW wagon that had a tune on it when he bought it, and although it seems quite powerful, it's also a lot more touchy on the throttle than mine. I think he has a RocketChip stage 2, but I'm not quite positive. I also like some of the options that Malone offers, like dynamic EGR and increased idle speed in cold weather. I live in the north, and the higher idle when cold helps warm it up a lot quicker.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

IIRC, Rocket Chip has you send him your ECU, he programs it and mails it back. There are no rental or purchase of programmer, so the question becomes, "Am I willing to be down a few days to save $200.00 or more?

The odd thing is, if you do not own Vag-Com to run logs on your car the way it is now, and then run logs after the tune is installed, how do you know you are getting exactly what you want. I am not implying anyone on the above list is shady; that is a just a legitimate request. When I first tuned my Jetta, TDTuning let me borrow a Vag-Com cable to use with my laptop to run logs. Granted I am talking about 10 years ago, and I still connect with Mike at TDTuning.com on occasion.
A while back I spoke with a different tuner, and without my owning a legal copy of Vag-Com, we would have been guessing in the dark.
I let Mike know to look for an email.
Email him again at Sales@TDTuning.com

 

[MATPOC]

I'm gonna do the logs when I get home, have a friend couple towns over who has Vag-Com and will let me borrow it.

Leaning towards Malone, spoke with my Volvo tuner and he doesn't do TDI's anymore, but spoke highly of Malone.

 

[red16vdub]

I'm gonna do the logs when I get home, have a friend couple towns over who has Vag-Com and will let me borrow it.

Leaning towards Malone, spoke with my Volvo tuner and he doesn't do TDI's anymore, but spoke highly of Malone.

Personally I would do a RocketChip stage 3 tune, which is good for roughly 45hp.
Leave the injectors and everything else along, depending on how you drive, it’s possible to have clutch slippage.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Since you're in Providence (at least I think you are!) I'd suggest you visit Chris Hill at Kraftwerke in Walpole MA. He can coordinate getting your ECU to Rocketchip and back, and will probably have a loaner ECU available so you're car won't be down while it's getting tuned. I have an ECU with an immo delete and Stage 3 on it, but it's loaned to someone in Maine right now. If you want I can try and get it back.

I've driven cars over the years with tunes from other vendors, but all my VWs and my BMW diesel are RC tuned. They simply work. Really well.

 

[MATPOC]

Since you're in Providence (at least I think you are!) I'd suggest you visit Chris Hill at Kraftwerke in Walpole MA. He can coordinate getting your ECU to Rocketchip and back, and will probably have a loaner ECU available so you're car won't be down while it's getting tuned. I have an ECU with an immo delete and Stage 3 on it, but it's loaned to someone in Maine right now. If you want I can try and get it back.

I've driven cars over the years with tunes from other vendors, but all my VWs and my BMW diesel are RC tuned. They simply work. Really well.

I am right in PVD, 45 minutes from IDParts, Walpole also is a short drive. Reason I've settled on Malone because I'm simply not sure what RocketChip offers, their site offers minimal description and no price.

I have no problem sending ECU out, have 2 other cars I can drive, although goal is to get rid of one of them if I can get the TDI to me more fun to drive. If making TDI more fun fails I may sell it, parking is limited and with 3 cars and one garage spot they will just sit outside and rust...

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Jeff's web site is wanting, for sure. And he's an engineer, not a salesman, so the process is a little different. What I've settled on with him after many, many tunes is I tell him what hardware's in the car and what I'd like to get (power, fuel economy, revs, whatever) and he writes the tune. What I can tell you is the results are great. I've got a Stage 3+ on my Wagon now, and it's not wanting for power on the street. And I filled it this AM after 780 miles including a round trip to NYC, and it got 48 MPG. Not bad for running at 75-80 MPH on snow tires.

If you're set on Malone that's fine. But if you want more info you should contact Chris and see if he can swap in an ECU so you can see what a Rocketchip tune is like. Tell him I sent you.

 

[MATPOC]

Personally I would do a RocketChip stage 3 tune, which is good for roughly 45hp.
Leave the injectors and everything else along, depending on how you drive, it’s possible to have clutch slippage.

According to Malone site Injectors are required for Stage 2, you saying they don't need to be rebuilt/upgraded at 190k?

 

[red16vdub]

According to Malone site Injectors are required for Stage 2, you saying they don't need to be rebuilt/upgraded at 190k?

I’m not going to speak for Malone, but there’s absolutely no need to upgrade any hardware for anything below rc3.
IBW said in his post above, get in touch with Chris at kraftwerke and get a chance to feel what you’re getting without spending any money, make your decision based on real world results. Don’t be fool by fancy websites

 

[TDikook]

I know nothing about Malone tuning. But for an ALH Rocketchip is the best. he knows those engines inside and out. I have had an RC tune on my car since the day I bought it. it STILL performs like magic. you cannot go wrong with Jeff, and as you are in that part of the country. it is much easier for you.

 

[MATPOC]

i'll try to get in touch with RC tomorrow, just want to know the cost and car requirements.
Don't mind spending few bucks, just want to figure out what's the best bang for the buck.

 

[rwthomas1]

I'm in South of you. Wanna see what a slightly tweaked MKIV is like? You can drive mine. I've let several other prospective VW buyers do so. I've had an RC3+ tune since 100K. The other mods were all done around 190K, IIRC. RC tune has been flawless. Malone has a great rep as well. My tune was done at a GTG/dyno day, sometime in 06-07? Worth every penny. Call Jeff, or email him and tell him what you want. Also second IBW's recommendation to reach out to Chris Hill. You really haven't met a car guy until you have met Chris. Saying he's a VW guru doesn't really do it justice.

RT

 

[MATPOC]

Ended up ordering Tunezila, from Malone, think I might have jumped on it too quickly, was bored in FL....
So, now I have a problem with it because it can not download the software from the car, starts download then says "confirm key off" and then "failed"
Been messaging with them yesterday and now about 24 hours no reply, not sure what to do at this point, kinda wish i went with RC

 

[Owain@malonetuning]

Sorry we have a lot on the go in the run of a day and are 9-5 pacific. If you find someone who's always immediately responsive in this industry, especially this time of year, I'd be a little suspicious as to why they're not busy. Jeff does good work and is notorious for taking awhile on replies as a result.

Welcome to ship it back for a refund, not much we can do about an ECU not communicating, use these tools everyday on ALHs.

FWIW Pete a lot of people with eng backgrounds in this industry not that it's of any help for tuning an ALH. Ironically tried to get away from it to get off the computer and play with cars.

 

[MATPOC]

Sorry we have a lot on the go in the run of a day and are 9-5 pacific. If you find someone who's always immediately responsive in this industry, especially this time of year, I'd be a little suspicious as to why they're not busy. Jeff does good work and is notorious for taking awhile on replies as a result.

Welcome to ship it back for a refund, not much we can do about an ECU not communicating, use these tools everyday on ALHs.

FWIW Pete a lot of people with eng backgrounds in this industry not that it's of any help for tuning an ALH. Ironically tried to get away from it to get off the computer and play with cars.

I was getting pretty quick replies, almost instant, but once we ran out of "did you do this and that" I knew it might be dead end, so didn't exactly expect an instant response, just hate being stuck in limbo.

I'm gonna get in touch with Kraftwerke and see if they can do ECU swap as @IndigoBlueWagon suggested and send it out, meanwhile I have a friend with '04 PD who is interested in getting a tune, maybe I'll have better luck downloading his car? I'll talk to him this week. If not will work on refund option.

Still got to fix sticky vanes, they don't fully release when vacuum is off (unless I force them) and I'm trying to see if there is any benefit of doing VNT17 swap if I can't fix my stock turbo easily (expect some broken bolts)
I got a lot of power out of my stock K04 in a Volvo, but eventually it was the weakest link and next step in upgrades, so after considering that to take full advantage of bigger turbo I will require internal engine work, decided to stay with stock turbo and stop dumping money into that car (my daily)
Wondering what are the pros and cons of different TDI components and how to take full advantage without just throwing money at 18 year old car.

 

[Owain@malonetuning]

tdi performance is definitely a slippery slope and gets expensive, anything past 180-200bhp and ~26psi in an alh can get out of hand. Sure a VNT17 is outdated, small, and not efficient on the top end, but it's a solid reliable OEM unit that's tried and tested at a good price point. Lots of vendors have them readily available and it bolts up like factory.

A set of 216 or larger nozzles with a vnt17 would be at least a 60% power increase over stock with double the torque, it'd be night and day over stock. Any car this age needs incremental work, you're either paying depreciation or maintenance. 3-5 grand in work is less than what the original owner lost in 3 years, and you could practically rebuild the car for that. No reason it shouldn't last another 10 at that point.

 

[MATPOC]

I dumped more in to maintenance and upgrades of that <- Volvo than I paid for it, but overall I'm still at the number that is less than what I would pay for that kind of performance if I just went car shopping, so I'm quite happy with result. Also glad I found someone who explained things rather than listening to some of the idiots on FB group who think hot air intake cones are good for performance and stickers add horsepower.

With C30 was easy math stage 1 tune 30hp for $700, complete air intake maybe 5hp and $500, complete exhaust another ~10 hp (with stage 3 tune) and $1000. Intercooler was just dumb luck that someone knew that another model car will fit and I spent $90 at junkyard and couple hours fabricating brackets instead of $500 for aftermarket FMIC same size. Guessing that was 5-10 hp on a hot day. So if I'm up 50hp from stock 227 I'm quite happy.
With TDI things seem confusing, power gains from different stages of tune only listed on Malone site, but what is the difference between limits of what VNT15 and VNT17 can produce? What about Replacing Nozzles? Rebuilding injectors? Bigger Downpipe? That weird plastic charge pipe near right wheel seems awfully restrictive... I know Diesels turn slow and make torque so airflow dynamics are different, I just don't know much about them.

This JSW has some rocker rust but it will not fall apart in next 3-5 years, so once I'm done with upgrades/repairs I'm hoping to get another 100k without major expense (at 190k now)
Got new tires, brakes, rotors, calipers, struts, shocks and control arms, that covers most of typical wear and tear, expect clutch will be next, maybe some other things like radiator etc., but at 40mpg it's twice as efficient as my pick up I'm trying to replace which also needs regular maintenance, so MPG is big deal considering I drive over 20k a year. Love the truck but things get wet in the bed and I often use it for work, hauling things that need to stay dry, so wagon is a better choice. I just want more power, looking for the best bang for the buck and reliability, not anything crazy.