Tuning an automatic?

Troyanac

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Location
Iowa
TDI
12 Golf TDI
Hello friends.. the few weeks I have spent on this forum I now want to do to everything to my car, even tho its an automatic (2012 Golf TDI).


Absolutely love the sound the engine and turbo make with a stage 2 tune and dpf delete.


Now where do I start? Do I need to take in different considerations since its automatic? Should I even waste my time? Advice, recommendations, criticism please...
 

tjg

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Location
Ft. Hood, TX
TDI
'13 TDI A3, '14 TDI Sportwagen
For starters you're going to want to do a Malone DSG tune.
I've fallen in love with these wet clutch DSG transmission... They're fantastic.

Have you done the 40k service on the transmission?

You're going to need to decide who to get the DPF delete from, Rawtek and Buzzken are the two big ones; I've only bought from Rawtek and I like their quality.


I'd recommend buying the flashzilla self tuner as well rather than going to a shop for the tune.
 
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Troyanac

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Location
Iowa
TDI
12 Golf TDI
For starters you're going to want to do a Malone DSG tune.
I've fallen in love with these wet clutch DSG transmission... They're fantastic.

Have you done the 40k service on the transmission?

You're going to need to decide who to get the DPF delete from, Rawtek and Buzzken are the two big ones; I've only bought from Rawtek and I like their quality.


I'd recommend buying the flashzilla self tuner as well rather than going to a shop for the tune.

So a DSG tune on top of an ECU tune?


I have not had my transmission serviced.. that will be my first step!
 

tjg

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Location
Ft. Hood, TX
TDI
'13 TDI A3, '14 TDI Sportwagen
in order to go Stage 1 or higher (at least with Malone) you need a DSG tune. the DSG tune which "increases the torque limit and in some cases lowers the RPM shift points to stay in the best efficiency and torque range. Shifts are smoother and quicker. The gear number indicator is also added to the instrument cluster in most cases."
 

Troyanac

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Location
Iowa
TDI
12 Golf TDI
in order to go Stage 1 or higher (at least with Malone) you need a DSG tune. the DSG tune which "increases the torque limit and in some cases lowers the RPM shift points to stay in the best efficiency and torque range. Shifts are smoother and quicker. The gear number indicator is also added to the instrument cluster in most cases."

nice, any recommendations? go malone for it? kerma?
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Welcome to tdiclub, but please try and read some before asking. This same topic has been repeatedly discussed over and over again. More than likely most of the info you seek is already here waiting for you.
 

Yourbuddysatin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
DSG aren’t auto. They are automated manuals. I have one myself in my 13 Jetta. It’s probably the best combo for the tdi even though time to time I miss the shifting.

Figure out what tuner you feel more confident in then talk with them about your power goal. They will tell you what you will need to do. I think Malone list a kinda breakdown sheet on their site for power and what supporting mods will need done. Once my warranty is up I’ll be going down this road also.
 

Troyanac

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Location
Iowa
TDI
12 Golf TDI
DSG aren’t auto. They are automated manuals. I have one myself in my 13 Jetta. It’s probably the best combo for the tdi even though time to time I miss the shifting.

Figure out what tuner you feel more confident in then talk with them about your power goal. They will tell you what you will need to do. I think Malone list a kinda breakdown sheet on their site for power and what supporting mods will need done. Once my warranty is up I’ll be going down this road also.

People seem to be split pretty evenly between Malone and Kerma... so i think im just going to save myself the $100 and go with Kerma.
 

JesseTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Location
Missouri
TDI
2012 Golf TDI, Premium package
People seem to be split pretty evenly between Malone and Kerma... so i think im just going to save myself the $100 and go with Kerma.
Kerma won't do a delete tune. They play it cautious since they are based in the US and don't want the EPA hitting them with huge fines like they have tried to do to some aftermarket truck diesel tuners. Malone has no qualms about doing a delete tune for you. Ive gone with the Kerma tune and I love it. I also have a DSG and ill get around to tuning the trans eventually. Still the tune is a HUGE improvement. Don't worry about the durability of the DSG they are as (or more) stout than the manual alternative, just make sure to service it every 40k miles NO EXCEPTIONS.
 

Troyanac

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Location
Iowa
TDI
12 Golf TDI
Kerma won't do a delete tune. They play it cautious since they are based in the US and don't want the EPA hitting them with huge fines like they have tried to do to some aftermarket truck diesel tuners. Malone has no qualms about doing a delete tune for you. Ive gone with the Kerma tune and I love it. I also have a DSG and ill get around to tuning the trans eventually. Still the tune is a HUGE improvement. Don't worry about the durability of the DSG they are as (or more) stout than the manual alternative, just make sure to service it every 40k miles NO EXCEPTIONS.

A delete tune for the DPF? So i couldnt get do a DPF delete properly if I choose Kerma?



And did you go stage 2 before you did a DSG tune?
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
As stated, emissions equipment is illegal to do a delete, dpf or any other piece, in the US. The EPA has been hitting the diesel truck companies with fines and stopping their sales. Pretending it is for off road use no longer works. Any one selling these things is putting themselves at risk to some extent. Hence the suggestion for Malone as they are in Canada
 

Yourbuddysatin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
It is getting pretty bad with all of it. I’m sure in the near future there will be emissions testing here in PA. I hope not but who knows what time will tell.
 

JesseTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Location
Missouri
TDI
2012 Golf TDI, Premium package
A delete tune for the DPF? So i couldnt get do a DPF delete properly if I choose Kerma?



And did you go stage 2 before you did a DSG tune?
Correct, Kerma wnot do a delete tune so if you want or need to delete then Malone is your only choice.
I did the Kerma engine tune only (so far) the DSG tune will be in the future when I get around to it.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Also there are mechanics who won't touch a deleted car either. They don't want to be blamed for anything. Just something else to know and ponder.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Since this car was subject to the huge VW emissions scandal and recall, another consideration is the extended warranty that came along with the recall work. Any aftermarket "tampering" will void it. And you really want to have that warranty in effect on those cars.

My recommendation on the common-rail cars has always been, and always will be, leave it alone, stock, until it becomes a decision whether to do a several-thousand-dollar emissions system repair (i.e. replacing a clogged DPF out of warranty) or scrap the car.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The warranty is a joke. And many of them are already running out anyway, now that the owner's know all the service writers on a first name basis.

Besides, the indefinite DPF backorder nonsense didn't help. Warranty is meaningless if they cannot source the parts to fix it. And that assumes they even will honor the warranty in the first place.

I do not blame anyone for going the delete route. I would (and did), too. Better fuel economy, more power, no more MIL on every 10k miles, no frozen intercooler nonsense.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
It may be a joke to you but there are many who have/are using it effectively. I have read stories here and have first hand knowledge of at least 4 people in my family who have one of these cars and have had issues handled by the warranty. Of course they aren't going to have many of these parts on hand. I would assume they are being made in small batches and used as needed. You also need to be aware of what the warranty covers. You can't go in there dumb and expect them to swoon all over you and tell you everything they can possibly do for you. Know the warranty and stand up for yourself and it and you should be able to get things covered. After warranty if expensive items come up in the emissions system that need replacing then a delete will be in my future. Assuming I still have the car 10 years from now.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The fact that you need it at all IS the joke. 4 people, that's cute. I have probably a hundred through here this year that have boomeranged back and forth from dealers. The sad part here is that these buy back resold cars have drawn people into purchasing a car they feel is a great deal (and in most respects it is), however this ends up with people who are not realizing the fact that just because they bought a car the cost them as much as a new stripper Versa, it is still a MUCH more complex and expensive car. And trying to keep a ~$26k TDI that already had a fragile engine management system now made even more fragile by their "fix" costs a lot more than their budget can handle.

So now the trend is: got the car cheap, constantly ping-ponging back and forth to the dealer under this "warranty", been taken apart and put together and had parts thrown at it repeatedly, have to have another car on retainer to depend on since the dealer either won't give them a loaner or has no more loaners left to give, and then the warranty runs out, and they ditch the car. At a loss. Or, they buck up and do a delete. This is a sad state of the situation, but this is hardly anecdotal. I work on this stuff every day. And many of us are still working, and driving to and from work every day, so we NEED something that is reliable and economical.

Probably why so many ALH and BEW and BRM cars are being kept on the road.

Oh, and our service manager now keeps the emissions fix website up on his station, so when all the people call asking about the MIL on, or the DPF light on, he can plug their information in first to even see if the car is still under warranty so the people at least have the option to go to the dealer. However, as we see time and time again, the owner will say "yeah, it has been there, over and over, they cannot fix it". Or my favorite, when the DPF light is on, the "they said to just drive it".... and some of these cars have been driven over 1000 miles. We have OBD testing here, and we have loads of these cars that cannot pass because they won't set readiness. Over and over and over. We deal with it CONSTANTLY. Yeah, maybe my choice of the word "joke" wasn't a good one, because there is certainly nothing funny about this at all. :(
 
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Yourbuddysatin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
Hmmm strange. I have taken my Touareg in probably 3 times and it was fixed all 3 times. No problems getting parts nor was I hassled about the warranty. 2 of the three times were not for emissions parts either. One was intake and the other fuel lines. VW are huge in my area so maybe that’s why?

I work on my own stuff anyways have. When I bought both cars at great deals I don’t see why not to use the warranty when needed. Dosent cost me anything and they always give me a loaner car in the mean time.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Another bit: the dealers charging people a diagnostic fee to tell them if the car has a warrantable repair. What? Who does this? That is PATHETIC!

And the whole CBEA/CJAA intercooler icing/hydrolock problem... they know they have a problem with it. They have an updated intercooler to help with it. But do they install those under warranty? Show of hands who has had this done. The dealer I get parts from didn't even know this existed. I had to spoon feed them the part numbers.

The DPFs cracking. It was an issue before. Guess what? It's worse now. Because the only way to lower NOx, the pollutant that the EPA has such a hard on over, can only be done a couple ways. Since they were not going to overlay an entire SCR retrofit (which, clearly doesn't do what they want, or the CKRA, the V6s, and all the 2015s, would have just required a simple software change... but instead all the manual CKRA cars were deemed "unfixable") means more EGR. More EGR means more low pressure EGR duty cycle, which means more of the intercooler problem potential. And of course, more fuel use... which means, more DPF regens. But hey, part of the fix was to remove the low pressure EGR filter tube, and replace it with a straight pipe. So now when your DPF cracks, which it will because it is being used ~20% more, it won't clog that filter, it'll simply send all the soot right into the entire EGR system. So now, when we have to drain the sludgy icy condensate that collected in the lower intercooler tube, it is also tainted black with pre-DPF pre-catalyst exhaust soot. Imagine a coal slushy. MmmmMMMmmmmmm....

And every Fall, when the cold weather starts, the tows start coming in.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Sounds more like you have people who have no clue about their car or the warranty or how to get the dealer to get things fixed. Sure you can take the easy way out and illegally delete your emissions. Some of us though would like our cars to remain as they are and be serviced by the dealer as the warranty requires.

There is a big difference between people who have no idea of what they are doing and those that are aware of the cars and the history and the warranty that is included with these. If you are ignorant and buy one of these with no knowledge of them then woe on them for doing that. Not the dealers fault they aren't aware. If you are knowledgeable about cars and can read and understand the warranty terms you should have no issues for the most part getting things done. If you are ignorant of all this and just bought a car because it was cheap, then you have a chance of not being happy with your purchase.

Not all dealers of any brand seem to go out of their way to assist their customers. Some do though and they tend to be busy and expensive compared to an independent mechanic. My dealer has been very good so far on anything I have brought to their attention on my car or the other 4 I have some interest in.

Good luck on fixing all your customers cars!
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
A diag fee seems to be common now days as far as I have seen. No one wants to diagnose your car for free and then you not have them do the work. It is understandable that this is done and it is usually refunded or cancelled on a verified warranty repair. Have had this done at numerous dealers over the years.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
If you think it is incumbent on the vehicle owner to instruct the dealer on how to service their car, and what is or is not covered under a warranty, then we'll just stop right there. :rolleyes: That is ridiculous.

I worked at a Lexus dealer, they (Toyota), NEVER pulled this crap. Ever. We were ALWAYS in favor of the customer. We warranted things that were clearly not covered, but did it anyway as good will. I've also worked at Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz. It is clear the Germans have a very different attitude toward customer relations. This is nothing new to those of us that have been in the business for this long, but it comes as a shock to a lot of people.

Our shop purchased a used 1998 Sienna at auction, with a bad transmission. It had at the time about 80k miles if I recall. We got it cheap, towed it in, I put a used transmission in it. It went about 30k miles before it died. Toyota had a TSB about this specific period of 4sp FWD+V6 transmissions. The local dealer replaced it for us. They paid to tow it to their shop. They replaced the unit with a genuine reman (and updated) Toyota unit. Washed and detailed the vehicle, and shuttled it back to us. It cost us $0. We didn't even buy it new. We bought it broken. It had USED parts in it. And by the time they did this, it was already going on a decade old and had over 100k miles on it. Do you think Volkswagen would ever do that? HAH! As someone who worked there during the 096/01M days and 100k mile 10 year powertrain warranties, the answer is a resounding NO. Not even close. They were too busy trying to blame the owners for driving their cars wrong. :(
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Just saying an unknowing customer has their own issues to contend with, with buying one of these cars. When others ask me about them I tell them they need to read here and educate themselves before committing to buying one of these cars. You are your own worst enemy buying one uninformed as to all aspects of it. The people I know and have spoken with that are aware have had few issues to deal with and when they did they were able to get the issues resolved quickly. These cars are different from every other car out there in that there is a court order stipulating exactly what is required of VW. A knowledgeable, civil, calm intelligent person should be able to deal with VW. If not let a lawyer take care of it. Maybe the be lead in another CA suit for failing to live up to the warranty.

Don't buy one of these cars unless you know the details of the warranty and dieselgate and about the car itself. Also how regens work and how to monitor the car. You may as well know also VW doesn't have a good rep for customer satisfaction in general. But my current dealer as far as service has been concerned has been very good. But I don't go in there and just say my car is broke, fix it either.
 
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CNGVW

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Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
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Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car fitted with CNG dual fuel conversion.
Oilhammers been at it a long time as I have too. For the warranty it is there as law in the USA . But most dealer try to screw the customer. I just had a new customer go the dealer and turned them away on fixing the turbo,DPF, and Intake . I did all the money work t belt brakes ,DSG service and more I copied the codes and gave him the 1800# for VW customer service and layed out the EPA law for him. I just got a email from him that dealer that said no did it all for free after the VW support line called them and informed them they where in violation of the EPA mandate.
from him
I had the vw Jetta 2010 tdi silver we did timing belt and transmission also the car was i limb mode you told me to bring it to dealer and they replace particulate filter, turbo charger and intake manifold i call the vw usa after your advise and have them do all the above. In the near future i will bring the car back to you to do some suspension checking and replacing sway bar bushings and checking fuel system
Thank you
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Just goes to show you the warranty will work but you have to not be a clueless owner and know something about your car and dieselgate and the warranty details like I said. It may be a hassle but you can get it done with a little knowledge, common sense, civility and time (and maybe a lawyer).

Thanks for helping this customer get the service they needed and were supposed to get from VW anyway.
 

Mongler98

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Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Just another popcorn thread.
Thanks for the entertainment !
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
I know I'm a few days late, but still wanted to chime in my recent warranty experience with my wife's '14 CKRA, was logging a fault for the DEF temp sensor shorting low. The local VW simply transferred the vehicle into our name in their system, found that neither of the software updates were installed. Did both updates, diagnosed the temp sensor, and installed a new DEF sending unit. They also said they recently stopped asking for the $150 initial diag fee due to all the bad rep they'd been getting from it. Overall, the repair was a day wait, but the VW registration took a long time, because apparently a person in the armed forces owned it before us, and had it sent overseas. It was registered to VWUK originally.

Luckily her car is a DSG, so no EGR nonsense to worry about.
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
Um... what? The EGR system is present no matter which transmission the car has.
I mean it's not cranked up to a high duty cycle like the manual is... Right? That's how I understand how it works.
 
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